Its not as sinister as whispering evil things in the presidents/governors/legislators ear...it is more subtle policy decisions with an eye toward a more "uniformly competent" general public. And eveyone knows policy can be easily influenced on any level $$$$.
I've usually got no problem with unions. The 2 main examples where unions piss me off are the AMA and Teachers unions. I don't mind teachers getting theirs and fighting for theirs, but they are not counterbalanced by anyone looking out for the students best interests. You have the government trying to save money, teachers trying to make money and get job security, and the children are left with whatever outcome the two have in mind.
I have to be careful here because lots of folks on this forum think I'm a raving liberal and others think I'm a radical conservative, and it is because of what I think about issues like this that confuses folks.
What I think, Darrin, is that the abdication is an unintended consequence of people honestly trying very hard to bring more equal educational opportunities to more and more kids at younger and younger ages. And I think that that is a worthy objective for our society. Having said that, however, I think that some genuinely mis-guided principles became driving forces throughout the curricula of education - training programs (by this I mean the curricula that went in to teaching college-aged kids how to become teachers).
I think that at least one if not two generations of teachers were produced that were/are hard-working, well-intentioned, and mis-guided. I believe that they reflected the community values that said "Let my children be exposed to whatever everybody else's children are exposed to, whether they are ready for it or not", and simultaneously "let's make sure that no child's educational experience is a negative one because I don't know how to handle a kid who can't keep up". Remember that I am saying that the teachers are reflecting community values; the teachers are not creating the values.
Societally, we Americans fail miserably at passing on our own civilization to the next generation. We don't teach people to be parents, so we look to schools to parent for us. Then we don't want schools doing anything "to our children" that is the "prerogative" of parents. The result is that our kids grow up in a "least common denominator" milieu where going along with the most popular issues on television or mass media is what passes for learning society's norms.
My son started school in the early 80's (I'm very old), and I went to the local public school to see what they were offering. I asked the principal, "How do you handle values?", and his answer was that "We don't." He didn't even realize that his answer was a value statement.
My kid went to a religious private school. And he went to a rigorous high school and college. I was willing to pay for what I knew I wanted to help me in how I raised my child. But most Americans don't know, or don't even think about, what they want their child to learn. And our schools are doing the best they can. It is not good enough, though.
Now that's a quality 9th grade education
I don't know that the LCD set the bar, but they certainly influence the bar...about 60-70% of Texas students are adequately prepared for college but they aren't the ones that make noise and grab headlines..
Frankly, I'd be surprised if the figure hit 70% in any demographic.
Additionally, the abdication by American families of parental responsibilities for civilizing the next generation has so weakened the essential educational function of the classroom that neither education nor civilization is getting accomplished, either in the home or the classroom.
Teysha, I applaud your reasoning in departing the classroom. I'm afraid I did it because the pay was so awful that I realized that the service that I was providing to my community was much less valued than most anything else I could do with my talents.
So I went and did something that they valued.
I don't know what could be more valuable to society than passing on knowledge....I agree that the job of teaching values, especially the value of hard work, dedication, empathy, and love have shifted to classroom teachers and administrators...
Tx has made some good changes, and they are really on the right track with Starr.....but shifting the bar up again isn't going to happen overnight...I dare the wingnuts who think our education system is watered down to go take a Algebra 2 or Pre-Cal test that Seniors take today....it isn't easy...
I agree with a lot of the points you bring up, especially the part about Americans failing miserably at passing on American values.
Parents look out for the student's best interest, but so do Administrators and many teachers....most teachers could care less about the Unions they belong to, although it's certainly nice to have a union looking out for your best interest.
Depends on which bar you are looking at....only about 70% of kids have a interest of going to college at all, most of the others want to go into a professional vocation, nothing wrong with that..
In many ways, looking out for the students 'best interest is what is hurting our education system...we need to recognize that kids have particular strengths and weaknesses through every stage of their development and just because a kid fails a TAKS test is not the end of the world...kids mature at different rates and standardized testing says, 'your not good enough if your not at this stage of development by this grade'. shameful.but they are not counterbalanced by anyone looking out for the students best interests
You know it's odd, but one of the purest reform attempts in Tx was House Bill 72. People always drill into the No Pass No Play elements of that bill, but that was one of the smaller parts.
It's about time for another reform initiative with the scope and range that one had.
I've got a son who will be going the vocational route as a mechanic. Fortunately, our local school system has an unbelievably good vocational system with absolute top rate facilities. If he applies himself, he could graduate with ASE certification.
Parents do a horrible job of looking out for their children's interests and quite frankly I don't know why a parents is expected to be an education specialist. As for teachers and administrators looking out for the children, there is a fundamental conflict of interest there. I know that many teachers and admins do care and go out of their way for students and that is admirable, but it should not be what we fall back on as a society.
And he's likely to make far more money than people who go to college and get some of the more useless degrees available.
add to that the loans some of those people took out to get some of the more useless degrees.And he's likely to make far more money than people who go to college and get some of the more useless degrees available.
Parents don't have to be education specialists, however, since their son or daughter is getting a free education, or one at a reduced price, its up to the parents to hold the school accountable if it is not meeting at least the minimum necessary requirements that the kids need to be successful in college or vocational school... too many parents think it is the responsibility of schools to raise their kids for them and they can just wipe their hands of discipline and behavior issues once they get the kid registered in kinder...
Yep, those Americans passing on Euro standards? What are they thinking?
Teachers are told what to teach, how they teach it is what makes them a quality teacher or not, but most teachers, especially those in TAKS grades, have zero say about what goes into the curriculum, or what core instruction is covered in their class...everyone must follow the same TEKS....As for teachers and administrators looking out for the children, there is a fundamental conflict of interest there
This thread is perfect for this forum. There are so many experts in here that have never actually accomplished or done anything and have been "career students" that they will certainly make this into a classic thread just based on their expertise..........I'm looking at you Manny and Randomguy.
Can't vouch for Manny, but RG is a loss specialist for a insurance company, or an accountant, or something like that...
Nevermind
Nice job, JS
Last edited by MannyIsGod; 12-22-2010 at 11:35 PM.
I agree Parents should do more. They just don't.
I'm all for sending kids and parents to behavior improvement and parenting classes, and if they don't go, fine the parents...
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