Public Enemy #1: Public Education

[CosmicCowboy]

You've got to amortize the buildings, utilities, bond repayment and maintenance, among other costs, CC.

Teysha, I own a business and understand the concept of overhead. However, do we REALLY need 100 MILLION Dollar High schools in order to teach kids? How is it that 80% of every teaching dollar gets spent on overhead that is not directly related to educating students?

[TeyshaBlue]

Teysha, I own a business and understand the concept of overhead. However, do we REALLY need 100 MILLION Dollar High schools in order to teach kids? How is it that 80% of every teaching dollar gets spent on overhead that is not directly related to educating students?

Oh, I completely agree. But, I understand the value of functional facilities. In my school district, we recently built a new Tech center. http://schools.birdvilleschools.net/...te/default.asp
It was easily 20 million, but what they do there is simply unbelievable. This is the center that my son will attend to learn auto mechanics. The service bay there is larger than any dealership in DFW. And that's just a tiny piece of the program.

Yeah, there's alot you can do without, but sometimes, you've just got to spend the dough to reap the reward.

[Wild Cobra]

i'm for sending the smart kids to private schools away from the dumbass kids

Agreed. Government schools maintain that lowest common denominator at ude.

[Wild Cobra]

I think it's a mistake to say that public school children are mis-educated. The flaws are from our entire public school system that favors standardized testing over creativity, critical thinking, and reason. I find it problematic that now everyone is so entirely focused on math and science in schools. I think I will be hard pressed to find a job since I am in neither of these fields.

I think focusing on math and science at the expense of other subjects like arts, music, and social studies will only hurt our education system rather than help it.

As per the voucher thing, I'm pretty sure that the court system found it cons utional to use them for parochial schools because the intent of the statute is neutral under the Establishment Clause.

No...\

The problem is two-fold. Government, and union teachers who care more about themselves, than our national treasures.

[Wild Cobra]

You've got to amortize the buildings, utilities, bond repayment and maintenance, among other costs, CC.

Agreed, but it's still excessive.

[Nbadan]

I just realized I am turning the conversation away from the original topic. I won't bring it up again other than to discuss the problem with vouchers. Sorry about that.

Vouchers won't solve anything, it would just make school funding even more inequitable...and that's the real reason wingnuts want to destroy public education...let's say vouchers pass, every kid gets about $7k per year to pay for their own education in a private or public school...do you think catholic schools will be ready to face all the requirements of the American with Disability Act or other laws public schools must abide by? No....these kids along with those with mental, psychological, and educational needs will be rejected by private school because they are not required to accept these kids by law like public schools are..

[Nbadan]

This and having parents with a vested interest in their child's education are the real reasons why kids do better in some private schools.....typically, experienced teachers in public schools have better training and a better curriculum, but its very difficult to keep gppd teachers in poor school districts...especially in Math and Science...so these kids with the most needs typically get inexperienced teachers...

[Nbadan]

BOT...if everyone was given a voucher, the rich would price out everyone else because they could afford to pay another $4-$10 thousand per year on top of their voucher... so consequently, private schools would get the best teachers...and the poor? screwed.

[TeyshaBlue]

No....these kids along with those with mental, psychological, and educational needs will be rejected by private school because they are not required to accept these kids by law like public schools are..

Actually, that's not entirely true. While it is true that there is no compulsory law to accept special needs kids, there is a mechanism within IDEA itself to address this issue. In short, the children need to be evaluated by local agencies. Then a meeting is set up with the school, parents and evaluating agencie(s). At that point, much like what occurs in a public school, an IEP is drawn up and funding is directed to the school for accommodation.
Yes, the school technically has the right of refusal, but I've never heard of a school doing so. Also, there are many, many private schools specifically for special needs kids.

[Duff McCartney]

No...\

The problem is two-fold. Government, and union teachers who care more about themselves, than our national treasures.

They care about oil as much as the next person does.

[ploto]

Yes, the school technically has the right of refusal, but I've never heard of a school doing so. Also, there are many, many private schools specifically for special needs kids.

I know of private schools informing parents that they do not accept kids with certain needs. If you have a small school with only one class per grade and one teacher per class, then you really can not properly handle some kid's needs. Granted there are also private schools geared specifically toward certain special needs, such as the Winston School.

[MannyIsGod]

If I ever have any kids, I can't in good faith send them to public school. One of the reasons I don't plan on having kids without a large amount of money to spend on a private education.

[TeyshaBlue]

If I ever have any kids, I can't in good faith send them to public school. One of the reasons I don't plan on having kids without a large amount of money to spend on a private education.

While that is completely your prerogative, it's just not a black/white-either/or issue. There are some fabulous public schools out there. My children attend one such school system. I wouldn't, for a minute, consider pulling them out and going the private route.
Don't predispose yourself to go the private route without exploring what's available when the time comes.

[MannyIsGod]

Fair enough, and while I think there are great magnet public high schools they still have to go through public elementary and public middle schools before getting there. I hear what you're saying though, and should I ever decide to unless minimannys upon the world I will keep it in mind.

[SnakeBoy]

Vouchers won't solve anything, it would just make school funding even more inequitable...and that's the real reason wingnuts want to destroy public education...let's say vouchers pass, every kid gets about $7k per year to pay for their own education in a private or public school...do you think catholic schools will be ready to face all the requirements of the American with Disability Act or other laws public schools must abide by? No....these kids along with those with mental, psychological, and educational needs will be rejected by private school because they are not required to accept these kids by law like public schools are..

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. The end result of your progressive concept of equitable education is that everyone gets an equally poor education. I don't see anything wrong with kids who want to succeed and are willing to do the work getting a better education than those who don't care about their future.

[TheSullyMonster]

I don't think there is anything wrong with this. The end result of your progressive concept of equitable education is that everyone gets an equally poor education. I don't see anything wrong with kids who want to succeed and are willing to do the work getting a better education than those who don't care about their future.

Because it brings the entire country down.

[Nbadan]

Actually, that's not entirely true. While it is true that there is no compulsory law to accept special needs kids, there is a mechanism within IDEA itself to address this issue. In short, the children need to be evaluated by local agencies. Then a meeting is set up with the school, parents and evaluating agencie(s). At that point, much like what occurs in a public school, an IEP is drawn up and funding is directed to the school for accommodation.
Yes, the school technically has the right of refusal, but I've never heard of a school doing so. Also, there are many, many private schools specifically for special needs kids.

My point was that most private schools don't have the resources to deal with special needs students, therefore, they will simply fail to enroll them, especially if the kid has behavior issues too... public schools are there to educate everyone...they will even go looking for kids in the district...

[boutons_deux]

"brings the entire country down."

The wealthy will always provide the best education for their kids, just like the super-wealthy are detached/shielded from The Rest of US by their wealth. Please don't worry about them.

The priority of the VRWC/Repugs not extending Buy America Bonds/state/local aid was to bust the school/state/municpal unions AND bankrupt their pension plans, as well as impoverish public schools.

The VRWC knows that a dumb, uneducated, vapidly entertained (sports, "reality" TV, celebrity-saturated, electronic doo-dads/games-obsessed, Fox-Propaganda-"informed", uncritically thinking, Jay-walking populace is the VRWC's best strategy for maintaining and increasing their oligarchic control of America.

We have many examples of such duped zombies in this forum.

[Geezerballer]

If vouchers were ever implemented, I’d start a school for boys only and staff it with black or latino retired/former military men. I’d promote the school to the children of un-wed mothers who wanted their sons to have a positive role model in their lives. Each day would start w/ physical training & school uniforms would be mandatory.

I am certain that this model could produce better educated young men from that community than the public schools do. “Separate but equal?” I don’t care. I’d rather try that than continue with the failure that (most) public schools have been.

Why should only the wealthy have a choice about where they send their kids?

[TheSullyMonster]

"brings the entire country down."

The wealthy will always provide the best education for their kids, just like the super-wealthy are detached/shielded from The Rest of US by their wealth. Please don't worry about them.

The priority of the VRWC/Repugs not extending Buy America Bonds/state/local aid was to bust the school/state/municpal unions AND bankrupt their pension plans, as well as impoverish public schools.

I was referring to the fact that an uneducated populace is not generally a productive, ambitious or innovative one. We also don't have the manufacturing base to herd people into, either. I was talking about the rest of the country, not the wealthy.

And geezer, why not white retired military? What, Patton not good enough for you?

[boutons_deux]

"uneducated populace is not generally a productive"

The corps and Wall St don't need the US populace to be productive, ambitious, innovative anymore. There is now, for US corps, plenty of consumers, growth, cheap design+labor, and manufacturing in East and South Asia to replace the depressed US consumers. So the wealthy VRWC busting the schools and state/local govts is pure vicious meanness.

The Big Money economy is booming, the The Real Economy is stagnant, declining. This was already true in the 2000s, and GDP and productivity rose along with corp mgmt compensation while household incomes stagnated and household debt reached record levels.

[Geezerballer]

And geezer, why not white retired military? What, Patton not good enough for you?

You can’t ignore the fact that many kids from the demographic I’m talking about see doing well in school as “acting white”. You’ve got to meet them where they are if you want to make a difference.

The public school mindset is “one size fits all” and that is clearly not working (nor should we be surprised).

[Nbadan]

If vouchers were ever implemented, I’d start a school for boys only and staff it with black or latino retired/former military men. I’d promote the school to the children of un-wed mothers who wanted their sons to have a positive role model in their lives. Each day would start w/ physical training & school uniforms would be mandatory.

We've got that already, it's called Prison...

[ploto]

Why should only the wealthy have a choice about where they send their kids?

There are many non-wealthy people who make huge sacrifices to send their kids to private school. Not everyone there is rich. Many have parents who work 2 jobs to pay the tuition. I sold my house so I could send my kid to Catholic school.

[Wild Cobra]

Why should only the wealthy have a choice about where they send their kids?

This is the land of opportunity. Strive to make more money and do the same. maybe if we could talk the federal government to give vouchers at half of what the government pays, more people could pay the little extra to put their kids in a private school.