Anti-Chemtrail posters are totally correct!

[Nbadan]

why pay?

[RandomGuy]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Secrecy and the chain of command, along with good people who want to believe the govt operates in our best interests at all times and who refuse to question "their govt" is enough to get er done from a top level.

Once this is clear, many members of the general public may seek a more dilligent position with regards to questioning their government, and not settling for the blind faith/head in the sand technique.

What I can't fathom is how you think something physically impossible, i.e. spraying chemicals targeted at the ground but doing it at 30,000 feet, is a conspiracy.

[Blake]

why pay?

why watch an hour and half video? why can't you just quickly answer?

I'll help produce a fill out form for you:

Type "what is being sprayed" here: _______________

Type "by who/whom" here: ________________

Type "the reason why" here _________________

Very, very, very simple and I bet it would take you less time to fill out this form than it did for you to imbed the youtube video.

[RandomGuy]

I mean there is absolutely no proof or precedence for the UNITED STATES ever spraying over a populace. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

I believe I made the point that spraying like that takes place with giant tankers at low level flights.

It is physically impossible to hit the ground with chemicals sprayed at 20-30,000 feet, in any concentration so as to affect anything.

Basically, any chemicals would simply freeze, become an ice cloud, then become dispersed by upper-atmosphere water vapor (which is what the "chemtrails" are.

If you want to claim that "chemtrails" are somehow chemical weapons, feel free to learn the physics and metrology required to write a paper on it, and prove all them no-nuthin' scientists wrong.

[RandomGuy]

Its entirely possible the theory is fos. Where did you see that I said the theory was bulletproof? Do I believe it? Yeah, I do. Why? Because contrails today act completely different than they ever have in my 35+ years of memories.

The point of my post above was not to scold skeptics for not believing, but instead to get skeptics to begin to distinguish between an "evil" US Govt vs. evil criminals within the US govt.

Make sense?

Is it possible the behavior of contrails is different today for some reason other than secret government programs to spray some form of "mind-control" chemicals?

Several plausible explanations have been put forth that do not require massive conspiracies.

Is it possible that contrails have not changed in 35 years, but your perception of them has?

Human memory is consistantly proven quite fallible, and I find it difficult to believe that you were really all that aware of contrails at the age of 20-

This theory is not only NOT bulletproof, it doesn't even meet the vaguest standards of common sense.

The only way to really believe it is to be consciously and deliberately ignorant of the scientific arguments that point out that it is physically impossible.

[Winehole23]

It is physically impossible to hit the ground with chemicals sprayed at 20-30,000 feet, in any concentration so as to affect anything.

This never occurred to me, until now.

[Blake]

Agent OrangeFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Agent Orange (disambiguation).

U.S. Army Huey helicopter spraying Agent Orange over Vietnamese agricultural land
Vietnamese man born with deformed face as a result of prenatal exposure to Agent Orange.Agent Orange is the code name for one of the herbicides and defoliants used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.

A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was later discovered to be contaminated with 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound. It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped 55 US gallon (200 L) barrels in which it was shipped, and was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides".[1]

During the Vietnam war, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed 20,000,000 US gallons (80,000,000 L) of chemical herbicides and defoliants in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.[2] The program's goal was to defoliate forested and rural land, depriving guerrillas of cover; another goal was to induce forced draft urbanization, destroying the ability of peasants to support themselves in the countryside, and forcing them to flee to the U.S. dominated cities, thus depriving the guerrillas of their rural support base and food supply.[3][4]

Air Force records show that at least 6,542 spraying missions took place over the course of Operation Ranch Hand.[5] By 1971, 12 percent of the total area of South Vietnam had been sprayed with defoliating chemicals, which were often applied at rates that were 13 times as high as the legal USDA limit.[6] In South Vietnam alone, an estimated 10 million hectares of agricultural land were ultimately destroyed.[7] In some areas TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered "safe" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[8][9] Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period.[4]

The US began to target food crops in October 1962, primarily using Agent Blue. In 1965, 42 percent of all herbicide spraying was dedicated to food crops.[4] Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased in South Vietnam, as peasants escaped the destruction and famine in the countryside by fleeing to the U.S.-dominated cities. The urban population in South Vietnam more than tripled: from 2.8 million people in 1958, to 8 million by 1971. The rapid flow of people led to a fast-paced and uncontrolled urbanization; an estimated 1.5 million people were living in Saigon slums, while many South Vietnamese elites and U.S. personnel lived in luxury.[10]

According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.[11]

k.

[LnGrrrR]

This never occurred to me, until now.

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

[TeyshaBlue]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

Parker likes to hang out at the tautology club.

[BradLohaus]

Didn't the feds admit to testing some kind of chemical spray over a town decades ago? I think it was in North Carolina in the 50s, but I'm far from certain on that.

IIRC, people got sick and a few may have died, and the feds had to admit to it and pay out some money. Good luck on google if you want to check.

[RandomGuy]

Agent OrangeFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Agent Orange (disambiguation).

U.S. Army Huey helicopter spraying Agent Orange over Vietnamese agricultural land
Vietnamese man born with deformed face as a result of prenatal exposure to Agent Orange.Agent Orange is the code name for one of the herbicides and defoliants used by the U.S. military as part of its herbicidal warfare program, Operation Ranch Hand, during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971.

A 50:50 mixture of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D, it was manufactured for the U.S. Department of Defense primarily by Monsanto Corporation and Dow Chemical. The 2,4,5-T used to produce Agent Orange was later discovered to be contaminated with 2,3,7,8-Tetrachlorodibenzodioxin, an extremely toxic dioxin compound. It was given its name from the color of the orange-striped 55 US gallon (200 L) barrels in which it was shipped, and was by far the most widely used of the so-called "Rainbow Herbicides".[1]

During the Vietnam war, between 1962 and 1971, the United States military sprayed 20,000,000 US gallons (80,000,000 L) of chemical herbicides and defoliants in Vietnam, eastern Laos and parts of Cambodia, as part of Operation Ranch Hand.[2] The program's goal was to defoliate forested and rural land, depriving guerrillas of cover; another goal was to induce forced draft urbanization, destroying the ability of peasants to support themselves in the countryside, and forcing them to flee to the U.S. dominated cities, thus depriving the guerrillas of their rural support base and food supply.[3][4]

Air Force records show that at least 6,542 spraying missions took place over the course of Operation Ranch Hand.[5] By 1971, 12 percent of the total area of South Vietnam had been sprayed with defoliating chemicals, which were often applied at rates that were 13 times as high as the legal USDA limit.[6] In South Vietnam alone, an estimated 10 million hectares of agricultural land were ultimately destroyed.[7] In some areas TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered "safe" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[8][9] Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period.[4]

The US began to target food crops in October 1962, primarily using Agent Blue. In 1965, 42 percent of all herbicide spraying was dedicated to food crops.[4] Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased in South Vietnam, as peasants escaped the destruction and famine in the countryside by fleeing to the U.S.-dominated cities. The urban population in South Vietnam more than tripled: from 2.8 million people in 1958, to 8 million by 1971. The rapid flow of people led to a fast-paced and uncontrolled urbanization; an estimated 1.5 million people were living in Saigon slums, while many South Vietnamese elites and U.S. personnel lived in luxury.[10]

According to Vietnamese Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 4.8 million Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange, resulting in 400,000 people being killed or maimed, and 500,000 children born with birth defects.[11]

Area of Vietnam: 128,527 sq mi
Area of Lower 48 states: roughly 2,000,000 sq mi

Your post mentions usage of almost 20,000,000 gallons of chemicals, used over a short period of a few years in Vietnam.

If you will note the picture in the OP this was done at low levels, as all chemical spaying must be done, by fleets of obvious purpose-built tankers, maintained and supplied by the entire logistics net of the US military.

To affect the US population with some super-secret chemical the US, even if one limited such spraying to metropolitan areas would require an effort at least an order of magnitude larger.

This would require an operation involving tens of thousands of people on a permanent basis.

People to build the tankers, or secretely modify existing airplanes to do something they weren't designed for, people to maintain these systems, people to manufacture/design whatever it is being "chemtrailed", people to move this chemical to where it is to be dispersed etc.

Any ONE of these people having an attack of conscience could easily reveal the whole conspiracy. The limited number of places that such tankers would be built also works against keeping this a secret.

Thank you for pointing out the scope and scale of the spraying operation in Vietnam. It gives us a good baseline for determining what would be required for this "chemtrail" theory (entire US for decades, and continuing today) to work, even if it wasn't physically impossible to spray chemicals at 30,000 feet in the manner proposed.

[RandomGuy]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

Its entirely possible the theory is fos. Where did you see that I said the theory was bulletproof? Do I believe it? Yeah, I do. Why? Because contrails today act completely different than they ever have in my 35+ years of memories.

...

[Do I understand the physics and science involved, and why it is physically impossible? No.]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in building the planes? No]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in secretly modifying existing planes? No.]
[Do I have any testimony from someone involved in researching the chemical they must be spraying? No]
[Do I have any idea what chemicals might be involved, specifically? No. I have some third-hand data from someone who once took some soil samples in some random location though.
[Do I have any testimony from anybody involved in re-filling the spraying planes with hundreds of millions of gallons of chemicals over the span of decades up to present day? No.
[Do I have pictures of any plane showing obvious spraying equipment? No, other than a spoof a skeptic did that got sucked up as gospel by fellow true-believers, of course.]

Make sense?

Only to you, Parker. Only to you.

[RandomGuy]

For a fun excercise, let's see where Parker's logic can take us.

"The Us government has evil people in it, therefore they are quite possibly spraying us with "chemtrail" chemicals..See I have pictures of low level spraying of chemicals by the US government in other places. I even have pictures of what I think are the results of this spraying ."

The underlying logical form:

The US government has evil people in it, therefore they are possibly doing X . See I have pictures of the US government doing Y , which is kinda like X .

Let's subs ute something fun for X and Y.

The US government has evil people in it. therefore they are possibly training purple unicorns strapped with explosives to run up to terrorist hide-outs and detonate themselves. See I have pictures of dophins strapped with mines that were trained to swim up to ships and detonate. I even have pictures of explosions at terrorist hide-outs.

Do I understand that purple unicorns don't exist? No.
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in training the purple unicorns? No
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in secretly breeding existing horses into unicorns? No.
Do I have any testimony from someone involved in researching the unicorn physchology ? No
Do I have any idea how something like purple unicorns can be moved around with no one noticing? No. I have some third-hand data from someone who once took some soil samples in some random location though.
Do I have any testimony from anybody who has witnessed a purple unicorn in combat? No.
Do I have pictures of any purple unicorn remains? No, other than a spoof a skeptic did that got sucked up as gospel by fellow true-believers, of course.

What I do offer as proof is that explosions at terrorist camps don't look like explosions I saw as a kid, and pictures of explosions at terrorist camps.

I mean, how else do you explain how terrorist camps blow up? Sheesh. What is with you people who just don't believe your government is so evil that they train innocent unicorns to blow up terrorists? I mean these people are capable of anything.

[Winehole23]

IIRC, people got sick and a few may have died, and the feds had to admit to it and pay out some money. Good luck on google if you want to check.

Is there a search engine you'd recommend, or would one need to go to a library to find the information?

[MannyIsGod]

Pshaw. I mentioned that in another thread! The military does get training on certain chemicals (nerve/blood/blisting/choking agents, and relative persistence).

Parker's reply was that he didn't know how it could happen, but they've got to be spraying for SOME reason, so it must work... somehow.

Obviously if its forming upper level cirrus clouds its not coming down right away.

Precipitation comes from low level clouds.

[Winehole23]

This has been planned. We have elites ... I don't know what you want to call em ... one worlders, illuminati, I don't ... whatever you want to call em.

[boutons_deux]

DHS wanted to spray the Rio Grande river banks with Agent ing Orange on the riparian Carrizo cane, arondo donax, that illegals hide in.

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder what Parker thinks of this funny contrail?

[LnGrrrR]

Skeptics who cant fathom an evil US Govt need to wrap their head around how a small/very small criminal component within the govt and behind the top secret rubber stamp, either/or the MIC or the intelligence community can use that status to carry out a personal agenda with impunity.

Motive?

[LnGrrrR]

I wonder what Parker thinks of this funny contrail?

Obviously, US scientists have developed a jet that can rip holes through space/time, allowing them to effectively "warp".

Can I explain the physics? No.

Can I explain the coverup? No.

Can I still post this theory and call everyone who doesn't agree with me a mindless sheeple? yes!

[Winehole23]

Motive?

I only watched about 40 minutes of the vid, but "geoengineering" is the whipping boy. In the context of this thread I suppose that could be strategic or remedial in aim, or both. Weather wars and cloud seeding, right?

I gather from the vid and friends who go in for this sort of thing that "geoengineering" or the like has been going on for some time by now, but really kicked into overdrive in the 1990's.

[Winehole23]

Just when air travel, deregulated and globalized, began to fill the skies in a noticeably fuller way. Coincidence?

[Winehole23]

[Yonivore]

Just when air travel, deregulated and globalized, began to fill the skies in a noticeably fuller way. Coincidence?

Those nefarious government spooks timed it perfectly, wouldn't you say?

[RandomGuy]

I only watched about 40 minutes of the vid, but "geoengineering" is the whipping boy. In the context of this thread I suppose that could be strategic or remedial in aim, or both. Weather wars and cloud seeding, right?

I gather from the vid and friends who go in for this sort of thing that "geoengineering" or the like has been going on for some time by now, but really kicked into overdrive in the 1990's.

Don't mention weather wars, he might start harping on the old HAARP schtick.

(yeah, I went there)

Parker hasn't specifically opined on HAARP and its evil global control of the weather, but if he believes in chemtrails, then a belief in the evil HAARP conspiracy seems possible.