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  1. #976
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that Loughner's actions were likely not the result of any specific rhetorical influence, and would generally agree that there has been no evidence suggesting a direct connection between the shooting and Palin's poster, but I'm curious as to why you're confusing the lack of evidence of a connection for the evidence of no connection.
    No confusion. In this case, the lack of evidence when combined with the overwhelming amount of media supposition and assertion of a connection needs to be pointed out. All of the evidence, so far, tends to walk away from there being any influence from right-wing political rhetoric.

    Should Palin and the right apologize to themselves? Because I've seen this narrative pushed by the right as much as by anyone else.
    The right is pushing the narrative that right-wing political rhetoric caused the shootings in Tucson?

  2. #977
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    It unsubtly inferred it was stupid marketing because it makes some people on either end of the political spectrum think about violence -- that's about it.
    But, by saying she didn't intend to incite violence infers that's exactly what happened.

    I didn't think of violence when I saw the SarahPAC ad or any of the similar graphics issued by the Democrats. If you did, perhaps you should seek counseling.

  3. #978
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    hearsay is not evidence.

  4. #979
    Linger Ficking Good! CuckingFunt's Avatar
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    The right is pushing the narrative that right-wing political rhetoric caused the shootings in Tucson?
    They're damn sure pushing the narrative that the left thinks it did. The defensiveness and victim status claimed by the right since moments after it happened has made the association as clearly as anything else has.

  5. #980
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    About the congresswoman being shot...

    Maybe its the cynic in me that feels badly for her and her family, but doesnt feel a damn thing for politicians who might actually be killed for their actions as lawmakers.

    In my dream world, there would be three sets of laws. One for the military, one for a citizen and another for elected/appointed public officials. The penalties of law for public officials would be extreme compared to a citizen's.

    Flame away.

  6. #981
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    But, by saying she didn't intend to incite violence infers that's exactly what happened.

    I didn't think of violence when I saw the SarahPAC ad or any of the similar graphics issued by the Democrats. If you did, perhaps you should seek counseling.
    You act as though we're writing for people in the future who know nothing about the cir stances of this incident.

    The gunman was a ing nut and had been since long before Palin bombed on Couric, much less released an under-cooked political poster.

    As for counseling... you buy, I'll fly, buddeh!

  7. #982
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    They're damn sure pushing the narrative that the left thinks it did. The defensiveness and victim status claimed by the right since moments after it happened has made the association as clearly as anything else has.
    Meanwhile, the New York Times makes an admission...

    Granted it took them several paragraphs -- during which they talked about reporting the early error that Giffords had been killled -- but, come clean (sort of) they did:

    The Times’s day-one coverage in some of its Sunday print editions included a strong focus on the political climate in Arizona and the nation. For some readers — and I share this view to an extent — placing the violence in the broader political context was problematic.

    C. Wenk, a reader in Alexandria, Va., criticized “an egregious rush to judgment in the Times coverage of the Arizona shooting, specifically aimed at linking the shooting to various conservative or Republican political rhetoric.”

    A second reader, Kevin O’Donnell of Greenbrae, Calif., saw it as a case of The Times jumping too quickly: “I understand the larger point about coarse speech raising the potential for violence. By offering that debate within hours of events, doesn’t The Times risk starting at the conclusion end of the argument?”

    The Times had a lot of company, as news organizations, commentators and political figures shouldered into an unruly scrum battling over whether the political environment was to blame. Meanwhile, opportunities were missed to pick up on evidence — quite apparent as early as that first day — that Jared Lee Loughner, who is charged with the shootings, had a mental disorder and might not have been motivated by politics at all.

    So why does a story get framed this way? Journalism educators characterize this kind of framing as a storytelling habit — one of relating new facts to an existing storyline — and also as a reflex of news organizations that are built to handle some topics well, and others less well.

    Jerry Ceppos, dean of the journalism school at the University of Nevada, Reno, said journalists’ impulse to quickly impose a frame on a story is “genetic.”

    “Journalists developed automatic framing protocols generations ago because of the need to report quickly,” he said. “Today’s hyper-deadlines, requiring journalists to report all day long and all night long, made that genetic disposition even more dominant.”
    In other words, we had a prepared narrative that right-wing political rhetoric was the cause of violence and ran with it.

  8. #983
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    (Leaky underpants shd be changed.)

  9. #984
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, the New York Times makes an admission...

    Granted it took them several paragraphs -- during which they talked about reporting the early error that Giffords had been killled -- but, come clean (sort of) they did:


    In other words, we had a prepared narrative that right-wing political rhetoric was the cause of violence and ran with it.
    Not surprising given similar arguments were put forth after the Killeen killer, and the murder of Dr. Tiller and the Holocaust museum guard in DC. That's the trouble with the 24/7 media schedule... nobody does research because they'd rather be wrong than get scooped. But it's always something in this country -- if it isn't right-wing radio it's heavy metal or gangsta movies or porn, or or or.

  10. #985
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    So why does a story get framed this way? Journalism educators characterize this kind of framing as a storytelling habit — one of relating new facts to an existing storyline — and also as a reflex of news organizations that are built to handle some topics well, and others less well.

    Jerry Ceppos, dean of the journalism school at the University of Nevada, Reno, said journalists’ impulse to quickly impose a frame on a story is “genetic.”

    “Journalists developed automatic framing protocols generations ago because of the need to report quickly,” he said. “Today’s hyper-deadlines, requiring journalists to report all day long and all night long, made that genetic disposition even more dominant.”


    In other words, we had a prepared narrative that right-wing political rhetoric was the cause of violence and ran with it.
    a narrative which I'm sure, had absolutely nothing to do with this:


  11. #986
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    a narrative which I'm sure, had absolutely nothing to do with this:

    Nope.

  12. #987
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Again, they are symbols for a map, to indicate location. Generally used in surveying.
    Pitbull disagrees with you again.

    "The graphic that was used was crosshairs..."
    -Sarah Palin on Hannity 1/17/2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJV2hE9u1kw

  13. #988
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Pitbull disagrees with you again.

    "The graphic that was used was crosshairs..."
    -Sarah Palin on Hannity 1/17/2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJV2hE9u1kw
    Yeh, yeh, yeh, we know...

    It's on Youtube, so the allegations must be true.

  14. #989
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Looks like the cover story reached the peasants before it reached governor half-wit.

  15. #990
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Yeh, yeh, yeh, we know...

    It's on Youtube, so the allegations must be true.

    That's a legitimate point.

    Corrected: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4501208/e...in-on-hannity/

  16. #991
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    In other words, we had a prepared narrative that right-wing political rhetoric was the cause of violence and ran with it.
    Are you literate?

  17. #992
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Pitbull disagrees with you again.

    "The graphic that was used was crosshairs..."
    -Sarah Palin on Hannity 1/17/2011

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJV2hE9u1kw
    So she says it was. She also explains the root of them pretty good. Now we can debate angles of this, but the bottom line is this. It doesn't matter what the truth is. You lib s will find any thing to hate her over.

  18. #993
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    So she says it was. She also explains the root of them pretty good. Now we can debate angles of this, but the bottom line is this. It doesn't matter what the truth is. You lib s will find any thing to hate her over.
    So who is wrong, Palin or you?

    You could at least admit one of you is wrong.

  19. #994
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So she says it was. She also explains the root of them pretty good. Now we can debate angles of this, but the bottom line is this. It doesn't matter what the truth is. You lib s will find any thing to hate her over.
    The truth is this:

    Palin used crosshairs in the graphic.

    The representative who was shot previously complained about the crosshairs.

    Some bags tried to tie the graphic directly to the shooting.

    Palin distastefully whined about the attempts by the bags to tie the graphic directly to the shooting.

    Palin's approval numbers fell and her disapproval ratings rose in the wake of her whining.

    And here we are.

  20. #995
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    So who is wrong, Palin or you?

    You could at least admit one of you is wrong.
    Do we need to go into that?

    They are map symbols for location. She was wrong, either not knowing, or by design. If she said they were map symbols, then the left would still hate her. Sometimes, admitting to a lie is less painful. Gets things done and over with. Which the truth is, beats me. I see it as still being either possibility.

    Like I said. No matter the truth, lib s will hate her.

  21. #996
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Do we need to go into that?

    They are map symbols for location. She was wrong, either not knowing, or by design. If she said they were map symbols, then the left would still hate her. Sometimes, admitting to a lie is less painful. Gets things done and over with. Which the truth is, beats me. I see it as still being either possibility.

    Like I said. No matter the truth, lib s will hate her.


    This is a new gambit: defending Palin by throwing her under the bus.

  22. #997
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    I think the point is, it doesn't matter what they were; the SarahPAC ad didn't cause any violence -- nor did the similar Democratic ads to which Palin referred in the interview.

    Obviously, if Ms. Palin says they were cross hairs, who are we to argue?

  23. #998
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Do we need to go into that?
    Yes, we do.

  24. #999
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    She was wrong, either not knowing, or by design.
    I just wanted you to admit it, to be honest. Like I said, evenn if they were targets, the only thing I think Palin might be guilty of is poor taste in her symbols. (And given the political climate, it's not like she was the only one. Tea partiers seem more explicit with their violent rhetoric, but there's plenty of examples from all parties.)

  25. #1000
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Obviously, if Ms. Palin says they were cross hairs, who are we to argue?
    In this case, your "we" would probably be WC.

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