The truth about Kobe's reputation as a clutch player

[Rummpd]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...ame/index.html

Manu in the mix as well for a 5 year period and even better I am sure this year - as for Bryant not even in the ballpark. (He is very dangerous though in the last 5 minutes just ask him or any Laker fan)

[DPG21920]

The thing is while I understand what Jam meant, it really doesn't matter overall because all of the guys being compared have shown the consistent willingness to do clutch things. Difference is, they make the right basketball plays and convert at a much higher clip.

[ChrisRichards]

56 FGA-1 Assist

KObe aint passing

[TheNextGen]

No, I don't do sig bets. That is your thing. That is too "internetty" for me.

[Phillip]

I don't see how it's trolling. It takes reputation out of the equation and looks at the facts. Many people have argued this point (and met a ton of resistance) for a while now.

the truth right there. just like the "reputation" by many ignorant people that dirk is a soft choker, even though he has been consistently clutch through his career. or the "reputation" that KG is some great leader, when in fact he often shied away from big shots in games and far more often than not, had mediocre performances when he was most needed (especially in Minny where he was the #1 guy)

[z0sa]

It's because being clutch is not only defined by the numbers. And it's not just about the perception or reputation. It's because it's regarded that no one in the league works harder at his game than Kobe. it's because make or miss, Kobe has never showed the fear of taking a clutch shot, nor the fear of failing. It's because there isn't a defense of five guys that can force Kobe not to attempt a shot and have a chance for it to go in if Kobe has his mind set on shooting. It's because missing 100 clutch shots in a row won't stop Kobe from attempting 101.

What a clever euphemism. I mean, you basically just wrote off the majority of of Kobe's problems in the clutch (being an ego-infested ballhog) as being good. Bravo you.

Kobe: Always ready for that 101st clutch FGA, even if it shouldn't be this close and you'll probably miss.

[DPG21920]

the truth right there. just like the "reputation" by many ignorant people that dirk is a soft choker, even though he has been consistently clutch through his career. or the "reputation" that KG is some great leader, when in fact he often shied away from big shots in games and far more often than not, had mediocre performances when he was most needed (especially in Minny where he was the #1 guy)

Exactly. This doesn't mean Kobe isn't a better overall player than many of the guys listed against him in these metrics or that no one fears Kobe in the last minute of a close game, it simply sheds light on the facts and the truth of the matter.

[TheGreatest23]

Spurs fans rejoicing! Down with Kobe, the Spurs killer!

[DPG21920]

No one is rejoicing, we are simply partaking in a basketball discussion relevant to the topic at hand. I know, that is a rarity around here.

[j.dizzle]

So, you disagree with the content of the article?

I dont disagree it with it but its obvious the writer is just trying to get some attention. LOL coming out with this after Kobe leads LA to to the finals three years straight. Who the would pass up a big shot to Odom, Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, Kwame Brown etc. . Kobe still takes bad shots at times but he's a lot better at getting his teammates involved now because he actually trusts the ones he has now. Ron-Ron missed 2-3 wide open buzzer beaters last season but Kobe still kept passing him the ball & it paid off in game 7 when he hit the biggest shot of his life.

[kamikazi_player]

Good read tbqh. Good to actually see some discussions and not some homer type arguments

[z0sa]

Kobe still takes bad shots at times but he's a lot better at getting his teammates involved now because he actually trusts the ones he has now.

Usual kobmefan bull . It was the lack of trust that made him miss so many late game shots!

Ron-Ron missed 2-3 wide open buzzer beaters last season but Kobe still kept passing him the ball & it paid off in game 7 when he hit the biggest shot of his life.

Does anyone besides lakerfan remember anything about that Game 7 besides 6-24 and 27 4th q FTAs? I mean any self respecting basketball fan when I say "anyone."

[Cry Havoc]

Everyone in the basketball universe already knows that Kobe is a ballhog, especially in a close game down the stretch. That's nothing new. And even many Laker fans and Kobe fanbois realize that Kobe's clutchness is exaggerated. But it's also not surprising that most GMs would still give the basketball to Kobe in crunchtime over any other player in the league. It's obviously not because of the clutch statistical information. The article showed that Kobe's a ballhog, takes bad shots, doesn't pass to teammates, and stagnates the offense in crunchtime. So why do all those GMs still give Kobe the ball?

I don't know. Why did Manu Ginobili go late in the 2nd round of the draft? Why did the Spurs get DeJuan Blair as a 37th pick? Why did probably 90% of GMs pick the Lakers to beat your Pistons in 2004?

It's because being clutch is not only defined by the numbers.

Neither is public opinion. Which is why Camby has more DPoY awards than Duncan.

And it's not just about the perception or reputation.

A lot of it is, though.

It's because it's regarded that no one in the league works harder at his game than Kobe. it's because make or miss, Kobe has never showed the fear of taking a clutch shot, nor the fear of failing.

You could say the same thing about 15 other superstars in the league. You think Blake Griffin (a rookie) would shy away from having the ball in his hands in the final 15 seconds? Manu? Derrick Rose? Melo? Do you think any of these guys would ever think twice before shooting the game winner?

It's because there isn't a defense of five guys that can force Kobe not to attempt a shot and have a chance for it to go in if Kobe has his mind set on shooting.

It's really not hard to get a shot off when you are so self-centered that you think you can hit from 28 feet out when you have open teammates on the 3 point line. Joe Schmoe from the local YMCA could get off half-court shots if he wanted to without getting them blocked, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The numbers don't lie. Kobe is not a great clutch player on offense. He shoots a poor percentage and he hurts the offense and doesn't make his teammates better. The article does a great job explaining all of this. The perception and reputation can only last so long. So why do all these GMs still want Kobe in crunchtime? It goes beyond the numbers. You don't give the basketball to Melo. You give it to Kobe. The numbers tell you not to give it to Kobe over Melo. But everything else tells you that's the right call.

If 1,000,000 people say a dumb thing, it is still a dumb thing. The volume of people saying something give no weight to it's authenticity if they cannot back up their opinions with SOME kind of scientific facts. The NBA is still functioning in the post-Jordan era, and as a result people still look to the SG with the most star power as a "go-to guy" above everyone else.

But it's a mystique. It's not built on actual empirical evidence, but rather a skewed perception.

If you put Wade, Melo, Kobe, Manu, and Chris Paul on the court together, and you need a bucket to win the game with 10 seconds left, Kobe is going to be, at best, the 4th guy to get the ball. The fact that he simply refuses to pass in the dying moments of a loss shows how many GMs out there are idiots when they say they'd give him the ball, because he could be triple-teamed and would rather take a falling 26 footer than pass the ball to someone who's got a much better look at it. You can argue the intangibles all you want, and if Kobe was CLOSE (say, within percentage point or two), then you might be able to make a convincing argument for him.

But he's not. And the NBA (at it's worst) is still little more than a 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 contest with a bunch of decent players and scrubs thrown in the mix. When Jordan superseded his team and the entire league, he put instilled an almost mythological reverence for the individual, and Kobe is the ultimate embodiment of that. GMs look at him as the go-to because he carries that alpha-male me vs. the entire world status better than anyone. But basketball is a STILL a team game, and a guy who refuses to pass the ball in crunch time means it's a bad decision to give him the ball, GMs be damned.

[Cry Havoc]

the truth right there. just like the "reputation" by many ignorant people that dirk is a soft choker, even though he has been consistently clutch through his career. or the "reputation" that KG is some great leader, when in fact he often shied away from big shots in games and far more often than not, had mediocre performances when he was most needed (especially in Minny where he was the #1 guy)

I think most real basketball fans (when not trolling Mavs fans) abandoned the thought that Dirk is soft or a choker a long time ago.

[TheMACHINE]

5 rings

[redzero]

You can criticize Kobe for 6-24, but all those free throws for the Lakers were the Celtics' fault. They made incredibly stupid fouls in the fourth, probably in part because they weren't getting anything offensively.

[TheMACHINE]

You can criticize Kobe for 6-24, but all those free throws for the Lakers were the Celtics' fault. They made incredibly stupid fouls in the fourth, probably in part because they weren't getting anything offensively.

plus the fouls the cetics were doing in the 4th were straight out lazy and obvious. Dumb ass fouls.

[Mugen]

David Stern/ESPN has spent a great deal of time creating this image of Kobe for a long, long time. Perception rarely equals reality.

Do I fear Kobe in the clutch? Sure because hes a great player who has a good chance of making even the most highly contested attempts.

But i don't fear him anymore than I would fear Manu, Dirk, Wade, Melo, even Fish, etc.

[Veterinarian]

5 rings

Its at this point where the Machine effectively gave up.

[Pedobear1]

Such a thought-provoking article...

Who was the Laker fan that asked "Why is he coming out with this after Kobe led his team to 3 straight Finals"? Should that make him immune from all criticism?

Now, on to the real subject, can I get my thread-starting privileges back on Gutter plz thx

[ambchang]

GMs voting for Kobe because they are afraid Kobe will rat them out to police about them womanizing.

True story.

[JamStone]

I don't know. Why did Manu Ginobili go late in the 2nd round of the draft? Why did the Spurs get DeJuan Blair as a 37th pick? Why did probably 90% of GMs pick the Lakers to beat your Pistons in 2004?

Because the Spurs were ahead of their time in the NBA with their international scouting. Surprising the Kings didn't take a chance on Manu instead of spending the #45 pick on Ryan Robertson. Even then, it wasn't much of a gamble on the Spurs part. And it's not like they had the premonition that Manu would be as good as he turned out. Otherwise, don't you think they would have selected him with the last pick in that draft instead of taking Leon Smith?

DeJuan Blair is a 6-foot-5 power forward with no ACLs. His production warranted getting selected higher. Actual production isn't the only thing GMs look at when they draft players.

I think your point was something to the effect that some things are just not easily explained. Yet you asked two questions that are easily explained to analogize why GMs still would take Kobe in crunchtime. Poor comparisons.


I'll get to the rest of your post in a little bit...

[jjktkk]

Spurs fans rejoicing! Down with Kobe, the Spurs killer!

Your trolling skills really needs some work weaksauce. I'm here to lend you hand.

[Phillip]

I think most real basketball fans (when not trolling Mavs fans) abandoned the thought that Dirk is soft or a choker a long time ago.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Only people who follow Dirk closely and pay attention abandoned that though. Generally a lot of Spurs fans in recent years have come to aknowledge that, but not fans of most other fanbases.

[Gutter92]

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Only people who follow Dirk closely and pay attention abandoned that though. Generally a lot of Spurs fans in recent years have come to aknowledge that, but not fans of most other fanbases.

What he means is, people that have eyes and watch games can see that Dirk is a clutch player