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Tony reminds me of Romo a great player but not a leader.........Manu is a freakin
Four Star General ****
Who cares about meaningless All-stars?
I think Manu is incomplete without Tony and the latter without Manu. Without either the Manu-TP combination, the Spurs lose a lot of their lethality. Both are super-unique players thriving within a system. Tony with his solid paint based game because of his speed, despite his short stature, and Manu with his PG abilities being as good as his shooting ones complement each other so much. Manu's successes therefore have a lot to do with TP's paint-penetration abilities as much as the latter's is helped by Manu's overall game.
And thats all I am happy about. TP has to compete with the likes of CP3, Deron Williams, Russell Westbrook and Steve Nash for an All-star spot and all of those guys carry a much larger load (with difficult returns as opposed to TP who is the most winningest). Manu's made easy because apart from Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade there are no better shooting guards in the league.
Tony reminds me of Romo a great player but not a leader.........Manu is a freakin
Four Star General ****
I'd rather have Tony go. All Star selection doesn't seem like Manu's kind of thing and I think he would rather spend his weekend with his boys.
Actually wheter one plays SG or PG is irrelevant in the all star selection process as there is no differentiation between the 2 positions , both fan and coach votes are differentiated simply by Guards, forwards and centers. That is why even if there is an abundance of Power forwards over small forwards , it has no impact on the chances of Love, Griffin, Duncan , Aldridge, Norwitski, Gasol all PF( LOL half of the team 6 players could all be Power forwards, ) just like half of the team could be PG, if they are all deserving, but the thing is there not, or there are SG who are simply better.
This. All 3 deserve to be in. As much as the all star game and weekend is all about hype and is ultimately irrelevant, all 3 deserve the recognition and now is the best time for that to happen with Pop at the helm.
The Tony vs Manu debate is bull , they're both equally important and equally good, they're also both underrated because the Spurs play team oriented basketball and no one's stats are impressive.
Now, admittedly I've watched Parker much more than Westbrook and Rondo and yesterday's games might be one offs or whatever, but I like Parker's game much more than these 2. Same with Manu when people compare him to Iguodala, Joe Johnson, etc, they might have better stats but they're in no way shape or form better players than Manu.
This forum has been begging for a legitimate reason for Spurs fans to pit Manu Ginobili against Tony Parker with real vitriol for a while -- I personally consider the absence of those threads one of the few unfortunate consequences of a 40-7 start (for the record, I think we're also woefully short of: "the refs screwed us" threads, legitimate "Fire Pop!" meltdowns, and "[D-League guy] is the answer" rants).
That about says it all. Over the last few years, we've seen too much of Tony without Manu and Manu without Tony. This year, we're seeing Tony AND Manu together as healthy starters for the first time in years. That combo works pretty good, wouldn't you say?
I never liked the "Manu off the bench" program although Manu went along with Pop's decision very gracefully.
When you have a limited number of minutes and three great players, you put them on the court together for as much of every game as you can against the other team's great players.
It makes no sense to put a second tier player on the court agaist a first tier opponent at the start of the game when many games momentum are decided. That's generating a mismatch in favor of the other team for too many minutes.
IMO Manu has been the best Spurs this season (clutch, best PER, best +/-, intangibles...)
But Tony is not far behind and would be a legit pick.
Now, if we assume both player are just as good. Gino is still the #1 pick just because at this point in his career he should have more than one All Star selection.
Manu doesn't come off the bench anymore but they are still playing limited time together.
Manu is out at the 6 minute mark in the 1rst quarter and sub Parker with 2 minutes left. They only play again together the last 6 minute of the 2nd quarter
The same for the second half.
=> 24 minutes together per game.
And Tony is scoring the most of his points once Manu is out.
Yeah, Manu and Tony are great but I think Manu with any healthy top tier point guard would work just as well.
That about says it all. Over the last few years, we've seen too much of Tony without Manu and Manu without Tony. This year, we're seeing Tony AND Manu together as healthy starters for the first time in years. That combo works pretty good, wouldn't you say?
Tony is replacable with probably 5 or 6 other point guards.
Manu is irreplacable.
TP will be in, period.
WGAF
It's the ing ASG
Look at the big picture, people
TP has small chances in making this ASG. Saying he will be in period/for sure/without a doubt....is a pretty stupid thing to say tbh.
Let's revisit the issue after the rosters have been set.
It's as stupid as you saying he has small chances.
I like Manu, but he could be replaced by Kobe or Wade just as easily as you would replace Parker with Paul or Williams. But I agree the NBA is really stacked with top tier PG.
By the way Parker and Ginobili are both very unique.
Parker just isnt better than Manu. Simple as that.
It is often said of a given player... "His value can't be summed up on a stat sheet". That can be said of many players... but that's probably truer of Ginobili than any other player in basketball.
The energy, the raw desire to win, drawing fouls, taking charges, getting under the skin of opposing players... and yes, his ability in the clutch, are what set him apart from Parker.
Also, versatility. Ginobili can play the 2, 3 or run the point (and he often does, unofficially, when on the floor).
Not really. Wade and Kobe are THE only replacements, and they're of the most expensive in the game. Parker could be replaced by many more, the PG position is loaded in this league. Ginobili is one of the most valuable players in the league period, specifically because his market value is so low relative to what he commands. He's probably without a doubt a top 3 most valuable players in the league in that context.
I'm not saying Tony's case is too far off from what I just described, but definitely on another level for Manu.
You wait. When the debate comes around, the ESPN types will be saying, "Well, he was a member of three championship teams, but he only made one all star team and spent most of his career coming off the bench."
I'm not saying he's not a HOF player, but I am saying that talking heads give greater respect to players with multiple All-Star appearances. They'll be voices out there saying he was a good role player.
Of course, if Spurs win the le this year and he is the MVP, then that would change things (although it hasn't really changed things for underrated Parker- so maybe nothing he does will impress some talking heads).
The point guard position is deep league-wide, but not so much in the West. Paul and Williams are obviously the two best and most heralded players in the West and both make it. I'd have to say, though, that after those two, you'd have to take Parker over Nash and Westbrook because Parker has played as good or better than those two and he is on a team that is making a historic run. It all depends on how many guards they take (will there be extra point guards or extra forwards).
The media will occasionally (rarely, actually) bring up Ginobili and hall of fame chances, and everybody agrees that he is a HOFer due to his achievements outside the NBA.
Manu Ginobili is Drazen Petrovic only far superior. Drazen was inducted into the hall of fame in 2002.
Ok, that's two PGs CLEARLY ahead of Parker.
Nash probably also is on the same level, if not better IMO because he's still shooting 52% (like parker #s) and averaging 11 assists per game in a completely changed team.
Westbrook's stats are re ed good, but yeah he's not on the Spurs, but still a respectable team.
Manu, by contrast, has one clear SG above him: Kobe Bryant. and even this season, it's not totally clear, but when it all comes down to it, sure I agree Kobe should be ahead of Manu.
Every other SG in the west is clearly inferior to Manu. Clearly. Manu is a top 3 SG in the league, period. And we both know for the reserves, it doesn't matter exactly which guard or forward position you play, but one thing I believe is that Manu has better chances than Tony, for the reasons already given in this thread.
And Manu making in my opinion, actually lowers the chances Tony will also, because he is another guard at west ahead of him, on top of all of the PGs out west. Given Manu makes it, I highly doubt they're putting Tony ahead of D-Will, and with all of the great forwards out west also, I think it's very very very very very very very stupid to claim that Tony will make it, period.
It's a long shot. If he makes it, awesome, but I wouldn't count on it.
One of the NBA TV analysts (I forget who) who also does fantasy basketball said Ginobili is a lock for the hall of fame a couple of weeks ago, and gave all the obvious reasons emphasizing the fact that basketball hall of fame is not just NBA.
Drazen -
A star on multiple stages, Petrović earned two silver medals and one bronze in Olympic basketball, a gold and a bronze in the FIBA World Championship, a gold and a bronze in the FIBA European Championship, earned four Euroscar Awards, and was named Mr. Europa in basketball twice. In 1985 he received the golden badge award for best athlete of Yugoslavia.
Seeking a bigger arena after his career start in Europe, Petrović joined the National Basketball Association in 1989 as a member of the Portland Trail Blazers. After playing mostly off the bench that year, Petrović experienced a break-out following a trade to the New Jersey Nets, starting and becoming one of the league's best shooting guards.
Petrović is considered the crucial part of the vanguard to the present-day mass influx of European players into the NBA.[1] Petrović's #3 was retired by the Nets in 1993 and in 2002, he was posthumously enshrined in the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.[2]
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