General 2011 NBA Draft Discussion

[objective]

Ya that kid...Tylers biggest issue is between the ears. If I remember right, the same things were being said about jennings after he did little overseas. Tyler was the top high school player just 2 yrs ago, he has some skills, and simply needs some guidance. Richards is just as a big question mark as Tyler is. Please explain to me why you think Richards is more NBA ready? He is simply about 2 yrs older and has just as limited basketball experience as Tyler does.

That seems like reaching there.

The same things about Jennings?

Maturity-wise, here's some things said about Jennings during his first season overseas:

Despite the fact that his playing time has largely evaporated over the past six weeks, Jennings is taking everything in stride, handling himself with maturity not found amongst players 10 years his senior here in Europe. “That’s just the hand I’ve been dealt” Jennings says with a smile and shrug. “If I could do it all over again, I probably would have signed with a smaller team, but things haven’t worked out that bad.”

One year ago we got the chance to see Jennings practice, scrimmage and play ... A few months prior to that, we saw him lead his Oak Hill squad to victory in the Hoophall Classic ... Comparing the Brandon Jennings we saw then with what we’re seeing now might make you rub your eyes in disbelief.

Gone is the brash, arrogant teenager with the Kid ’N Play style flat-top who dominated the ball in absolute fashion and looked first and foremost for his own shot, his stats and the ultimate high-light play. In his place is a much more mature, respectful young man, always cheering on his teammates, showing great body language and painstakingly trying to do what his coaches ask of him, almost to a fault at times.
- DX

On what Europe has helped him improve on:
“Maturity. I’m more mature. I’ve handled it well so far. I’m learning something now.

-On being benched abruptly early in the 3rd quarter:
“I made a couple of fouls. It was my mistake. We were trying to make a run. I can’t complain. If we’re here winning, I can’t complain. I’m sure I’ll play more now.” - DX

even from mid-November of that first year in europe, there was really only good things from DX:

its hard not to come away impressed by how he’s fared, all things considered. He walked into a very difficult situation and seems to be making the best of it thus far, holding his own against hostile crowds and tough gyms in places like Vitoria, Berlin and Ljubljana. There is absolutely no question that he will become a significantly better player from the experience he’s gaining every day

Play wise, there's probably scores of quotes I could pull from DX about the good in his game and what he needed to work on, plus quotes breaking down exactly what he was doing to work on his game that were impressive. And he was playing close to 20 minutes a game in a good league.

Aside from DX, Gail Goodrich told Bill Simmons while covering Jennings performances in Italy that Jennings "was going to be good, he'll be a really good pro player", the story is related in his 6-25-10 podcast.

How does that compare to Tyler?

Let's see:

one-game suspension for being ejected from a game following a altercation in which he reportedly head-butted an opponent

NYT: His coach calls him lazy and out of shape. The team captain says he is soft. His teammates say he needs to learn to shut up and show up on time.

...

“All he had to do was go and do what Brandon did, shut up and go learn,” said Sonny Vaccaro, an adviser to Tyler and Jennings. “He obviously isn’t doing that. He thinks that he’s Kevin Garnett.” ...

For missing a workout and showing up late to an interview, Tyler was fined $1,000, the largest penalty the team had levied in three years. ...

At his apartment, Tyler said, neighbors have called the police three times with complaints that he was playing music too loud. ...

Discussing his problems, Tyler tended to point fingers. Asked about his immaturity, he said his teammates should treat him like a man. Asked about his reluctance to work and listen to his coaches, he said he was skeptical of their knowledge and methods.

He also quit on the team and left with 5 weeks to go.

Last month, he walked out on the team at halftime to protest not getting more minutes. For the last three games, he sat on the bench not wearing a uniform after being left off the Haifa squad.

He averaged about 8 minutes in Israel and now he's averaging 16 minutes a game in Japan.

I'm not discounting that he could be drafted as he's automatically eligible (DX has him 74). Maybe he has improved his maturity in Japan, though I don't know if hanging out with Robert Swift will help that or his work ethic.

The best thing to help him would be if he's grown a bit. He was at the 2010 combine and while he had solid size he wasn't the super-beast people are led to believe. He was 1.5 inches smaller than Richards for instance, and that was Richards at the combine, allegedly Richards has gained another 1.5.

------

As for whether Richards is more ready than Tyler . . . I guess it's a coin-flip. Richards also played 1st division euro quality, albeit in a Swiss league. That was on loan from GC, and according to RR in his interviews that was because he was waiting on a different player's passport issues freeing up a spot for him with GC, but after a quarter of the season they instead loaned him out, though I wouldn't be surprised if that's a 'best possible light' perspective. According to EP he went to the Swiss after a "unsuccessful test for a loan to Virtus Bologna"

He does have the same 'hype' pedigree though, if you could call it that. He was the youngest ever at the Nike Hoop Summit at 15 and DX did give him 'lottery potential' at that age.

The biggest difference as to why RR would be more NBA ready is his game.

I've found nothing nowhere that gave Tyler's game as anything but power. Whether it was Israel or even in Japan, it was pretty much only dunks. Richards however has demonstrated an impressive offensive game even though facing similar scrub compe ion: 3 point range, decent handles for his size, nice touch.

Plus a year in the Spurs 'sphere of influence' if you will already, having hung around and been at the practice facility a fair amount.

[yavozerb]

That seems like reaching there.

The same things about Jennings?

Maturity-wise, here's some things said about Jennings during his first season overseas:





even from mid-November of that first year in europe, there was really only good things from DX:



Play wise, there's probably scores of quotes I could pull from DX about the good in his game and what he needed to work on, plus quotes breaking down exactly what he was doing to work on his game that were impressive. And he was playing close to 20 minutes a game in a good league.

Aside from DX, Gail Goodrich told Bill Simmons while covering Jennings performances in Italy that Jennings "was going to be good, he'll be a really good pro player", the story is related in his 6-25-10 podcast.

How does that compare to Tyler?

Let's see:





He also quit on the team and left with 5 weeks to go.



He averaged about 8 minutes in Israel and now he's averaging 16 minutes a game in Japan.

I'm not discounting that he could be drafted as he's automatically eligible (DX has him 74). Maybe he has improved his maturity in Japan, though I don't know if hanging out with Robert Swift will help that or his work ethic.

The best thing to help him would be if he's grown a bit. He was at the 2010 combine and while he had solid size he wasn't the super-beast people are led to believe. He was 1.5 inches smaller than Richards for instance, and that was Richards at the combine, allegedly Richards has gained another 1.5.

------

As for whether Richards is more ready than Tyler . . . I guess it's a coin-flip. Richards also played 1st division euro quality, albeit in a Swiss league. That was on loan from GC, and according to RR in his interviews that was because he was waiting on a different player's passport issues freeing up a spot for him with GC, but after a quarter of the season they instead loaned him out, though I wouldn't be surprised if that's a 'best possible light' perspective. According to EP he went to the Swiss after a "unsuccessful test for a loan to Virtus Bologna"

He does have the same 'hype' pedigree though, if you could call it that. He was the youngest ever at the Nike Hoop Summit at 15 and DX did give him 'lottery potential' at that age.

The biggest difference as to why RR would be more NBA ready is his game.

I've found nothing nowhere that gave Tyler's game as anything but power. Whether it was Israel or even in Japan, it was pretty much only dunks. Richards however has demonstrated an impressive offensive game even though facing similar scrub compe ion: 3 point range, decent handles for his size, nice touch.

Plus a year in the Spurs 'sphere of influence' if you will already, having hung around and been at the practice facility a fair amount.

Wow, didnt mean to waste an hour of your day with the tyler comment, nice work though..

[objective]

Wow, didnt mean to waste an hour of your day with the tyler comment, nice work though..

less than 10 minutes actually.

I had been reviewing all the Richards materials I could find the just the day before your post. Among the things I looked at beyond videos were his DX entries, links, and combine stats and saw Tyler in the combine and took a look at him in comparison, just coincidental timing.

[DesignatedT]

Singler would be an interesting option although he might go wayyy before our pick. I also like PG Jimmer Fredette from BYU if we end up with a 28-30th pick. Should definitely concentrate on that wing position though unless we address it via trade after the season. I could definitely see us trading this pick for a veteran player who might be able to help. I am also high on Forwards Jordan Hamilton from Texas, Justin Harper from Richmond and Jon Leuer from Wisconsin. It's early though.

[mountainballer]

I'm a huge fan of Fredette. wasn't sure if he will get drafted at all, but after those shows he delivered in the last weeks he looks like a lock at late 1st high 2nd round. considering that Quinn was able to find his niche with the Spurs, Fredette might either. b/c he is better than Quinn.

[Chieflion]

Kawhi Leonard from San Diego State looks like an interesting prospect. He is going to be 20 years old in the 2011 draft. Not that good a 3 point shooter. He is a SF who rebounds in double figures. I like the way he has his turnovers down and has a positive assist to turnover ratio, given his style of play. In 31.8 minutes, he also only averages 2.5 fouls per game. That's nice to see too.

[Vic Petro]

Yeah but Leonard and Fredette will both be long gone by the time the Spurs pick, barring injury. Both teams are going to make the tournament so they'll be visible...unless they completely crap out their workouts they'll both go top 20 at worst.

Justin Harper looks like a good fit and I think he's a more realistic target.

[jjktkk]

Was watching the Horns, Cowboys game last night and Fran Fraschilla made an interesting comment that Texas's Dogus Balbay's game can translate to the NBA. For those unfamiliar with Balbay, he is a really good defender and rebounder at the pg position. Balbay is also a solid distributor and has a uncanny knack for making plays. Balbay's major weakness is his lack of a jumpshot. Franschilla acknowledged Balbay's lack of perimeter shooting ability, but still maintained that Balbay's game transitions to the NBA. Just thought that Franschilla's comments were interesting, because I have never thought of Balbay as an NBA prospect.

[DesignatedT]

no thank you to balbay

[ColinB]

As much as I like Balbay, (actually had a psychology class with him at UT, nice guy) there is no way I see him playing in the NBA. He'll probably play overseas. He is having a of a defensive year though. Totally shut down Page in that OSU game. I do think he is an underrated passer, but dude can't hit a shot from 8 feet. Doesn't help his case that he is 6 feet either.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Interesting discussion. Thanks to all for the insights.

[Mal]

As for now, my picks with 30th would be JaJuan Johnson of Purdue or Singler from Duke. What do you think of it ?

[jjktkk]

As for now, my picks with 30th would be JaJuan Johnson of Purdue or Singler from Duke. What do you think of it ?

Love Johnson, but I think he will be gone by pick 30. Jurys still out on Singler. Hard to evaluate tweeners.

[yavozerb]

Love Johnson, but I think he will be gone by pick 30. Jurys still out on Singler. Hard to evaluate tweeners.

I have no doubt that if singler is still there at the end of the draft (which I doubt) that the spurs would take him. Recent history indicates they are willing to ignore the NBA rumors about players and simply go with the facts (college stats, ie. blair and JA). Singler has had a great college career and I would love to see him in a spurs uni.

[Biggems]

The only 2 players I want from the draft at this moment are Jordan Hamilton, who we have absolutely no shot at, and Keith Benson, who is listed as an early to mid second round prospect right now.

[ChuckD]

Ya that kid...Tylers biggest issue is between the ears. If I remember right, the same things were being said about jennings after he did little overseas. Tyler was the top high school player just 2 yrs ago, he has some skills, and simply needs some guidance. Richards is just as a big question mark as Tyler is. Please explain to me why you think Richards is more NBA ready? He is simply about 2 yrs older and has just as limited basketball experience as Tyler does.

Tyler's biggest issue is the people he surrounds himself with. Pop can't teach the kid if Sonny Vaccaro is picking him up from practice and telling him Pop isn't playing him enough.

He's one of those over-en led AAU/shoe camp kids. Until he has the realization that he isn't very ing good, and that he'd better start listening to coaches who are trying to make him good, he'll never get a sniff from the Spurs. That realization could take 5 years or more.

[ChuckD]

Although all late round picks are a gamble somewhat, I wouldn't want the Spurs to use their 1st round pick on a complete unknown. Thats what 2nd round picks should used be for IMO.

Tony Parker and George Hill say o.

[Darkwaters]

Tony Parker and George Hill say o.

[jjktkk]

Tony Parker and George Hill say o.

I was more worried about the Spurs drafting a foreign player and doing a draft and stash, because of the uncertainty of a cba.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I was more worried about the Spurs drafting a foreign player and doing a draft and stash, because of the uncertainty of a cba.

imo our team is to stacked atm to make use any draft picks

i see draft and stash imo...

[Darkwaters]

I was more worried about the Spurs drafting a foreign player and doing a draft and stash, because of the uncertainty of a cba.

I wouldn't mind Xavi Rabaseda

[elemento]

I'm not following the 2011 prospects. Any decent prospect in the range of late 1st and 2nd rounds?

You guys think the Spurs will gamble in this draft or they're gonna get the best possible player, not matter the position he plays ?

[tuncaboylu]

If Antonio McDyess won't retire this summer, which I hope so, i don't think that we will draft a front-court player. I don't know how James Anderson adjust after his injury, but if he can adjust, we would draft a back up PG this year. It would be better to add depth to our rotation behibnd Parker-Manu-Hill.

Demetri McCamey seems a good disher and extraordinary shooter in our range. Darius Morris is also a good PG who will be available when we draft.

[ChuckD]

I'm not following the 2011 prospects. Any decent prospect in the range of late 1st and 2nd rounds?

You guys think the Spurs will gamble in this draft or they're gonna get the best possible player, not matter the position he plays ?

That's usually the way they roll. Players are assets, and if you're overloaded at one position, it opens trade possibilities, or maxes out your rotation depth. In 2008, we probably really needed a front court player, with Splitter stuck in Spain, but they went with George Hill anyway, because there was no big that had his upside that late in the first.

[Darkwaters]

That's usually the way they roll. Players are assets, and if you're overloaded at one position, it opens trade possibilities, or maxes out your rotation depth. In 2008, we probably really needed a front court player, with Splitter stuck in Spain, but they went with George Hill anyway, because there was no big that had his upside that late in the first.

When talking about draft selection theory there are typically two schools of thought: need and best player available. Both have merit and are useful in different cir stances.

The Spurs have the benefit of being both a very complete team with quality players at every position and a very deep squad across the board. They could use either theory successfully.

Drafting for need wouldn't be out of the question...but I'm not sure which need we'd be looking to fill. A big is the most pressing need down the road (especially if McDyess DOES retire) but this draft doesn't promise many quality options. We generally look good at PG with Parker as an elite starter, Hill a stellar lead guard (sans the point guard skills), and Quinn a capable fill-in. At the wing we're pretty savvy too with Ginobili and Jefferson as strong starters and a surprisingly capable crop of rookies backing them up in Neal and Anderson. Plus, Hill does a great job at the 2.

If I were to rank our highest needs they'd probably look something like this:

1) Shot blocking big
2) Big long SF defender (Small Ball PF type)
3) Shooting PF
4) 3 point shooting PG with PG & Pic'n'roll skills
5) Shooter at any position

Of course, when you've got a quality rotation at pretty much every position you don't have to draft for need at all. Best player available is probably the more equitable option. If two players have seemingly equal ability/potential then you could return to your pre-identified "needs" listed above.

A third thing to consider is fit. Some players might be phenomenal talents but would not be good players for us. Head cases, primadonnas and troubled youths aren't a smart choice for San Antonio. Also, wing players without a shot, players completely unwilling to play defense or those strongly lacking in BBIQ aren't good fits either.

Of all the needs listed the ones that are likely the easiest to be filled with the stated "needs" are the two:

1) Big long SF defender
2) 3 pt shooting PG with PG & pic'n'roll skills

We've talked about the big 3's at length. Honestly, a respectable PG might be had in this draft - more likely than a big at least. If we find one that works he can take over the regular back-up PG skills and Hill could transition to the 2 full-time.

Just a thought.