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  1. #26
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    no need to offset anything since government spending isn't constrained by tax revenues.
    And you insinuate I'm the leftist. Hah!

  2. #27
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Ok. So you admit in your own words you're a one note johnny. Only one thing is important, full employment, and the only plausible means to acheive it is massive tax breaks.

    How do plan to pay for the breaks, 2cents? Or do we just borrow more money again?
    One not johnny huh?

    ask yourself
    What's the purpose of taxes?

    a payroll tax holiday for a year or two is the only capitalist and fair way to do it. otherwise, the government has to chose winners and losers.

  3. #28
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Did you envision a role for government too, say infrastructure investment, or something of that sort? I'm not tryin to trip you up. I'm actually interested in what you think, fwiw.
    long-term, yes, but we have immediate problems.

  4. #29
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    How to pay for massive tax cuts apparently isn't one of them. Fair enough.

  5. #30
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    ask yourself
    What's the purpose of taxes?
    Too abstract for me. What's your pat answer for this?

  6. #31
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    How to pay for massive tax cuts apparently isn't one of them. Fair enough.
    as long as you admit tax revenue has little to do with paying anything at the federal level.

  7. #32
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Too abstract for me. What's your pat answer for this?
    "fat answer?" For that I should leave you in the dark.

    http://hiwaay.net/~becraft/RUMLTAXES.html

  8. #33
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    as long as you admit tax revenue has little to do with paying anything at the federal level.
    That's your view. I respect that but I probably won't follow you there. Nothing personal.

  9. #34
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I also respect that you more or less admitted adding trillions more to the debt/deficit is of no concern to you right now. That's contrary to the prevailing political winds.

  10. #35
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    That's your view. I respect that but I probably won't follow you there. Nothing personal.
    it's an operational reality whether you know it or not.

  11. #36
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    the state grows no matter what. that's been the pattern for sure.

  12. #37
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    I also respect that you more or less admitted adding trillions more to the debt/deficit is of no concern to you right now. That's contrary to the prevailing political winds.

    only if it's in the form of a payroll tax holiday.

  13. #38
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    the state grows no matter what. that's been the pattern for sure.
    hence, I applaud the efforts to shrink it.

  14. #39
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    on the contrary, it seems to me that by authorizing all additions to the national debt/deficit in advance, you have also apologized for the growth of the state -- only temporarily of course, as may be expedient to full employment and economic recovery.

  15. #40
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    when a country can print its own money, it can't default. Like the US did after WWII, it can inflate itself out of debt.

    Repug deficit-hawks are only deficit hawks when the Dems are in power. St Ronnie and dubay tripled the debt, but where were the deficit hawks then? Just part of the VRWC incredibly bad-faith, political, dishonest bull .

  16. #41
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    when a country can print its own money, it can't default. Like the US did after WWII, it can inflate itself out of debt.

    Repug deficit-hawks are only deficit hawks when the Dems are in power. St Ronnie and dubay tripled the debt, but where were the deficit hawks then? Just part of the VRWC incredibly bad-faith, political, dishonest bull .
    Im not talking about inflation and after WWII the gov didn't inflate its way out of anything.

  17. #42
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    "after WWII the gov didn't inflate its way out of anything"

    it did, you could look it up.

  18. #43
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    "after WWII the gov didn't inflate its way out of anything"

    it did, you could look it up.
    inflation didn't get us out of the war or recession. The War caused short-term inflation here and hyper-inflation in Germany.

    Big Difference.

  19. #44
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    Many observers worry that the debt-to-GDP ratios projected over the next ten years are unsustainable. Assuming deficits can be reined in, how might the debt/GDP ratio be reduced? There are four basic mechanisms:

    GDP can grow rapidly enough to reduce the ratio. This scenario requires a robust economic recovery from the financial crisis.

    Inflation can rise, eroding the real value of the debt held by creditors and the effective debt ratio. With foreign creditors holding a significant share of the dollar-denominated US federal debt, they will share the burden of any higher US inflation along with domestic creditors.

    The government can use tax revenue to redeem some of the debt.

    The government can default on some of its debt obligations.

    Over its history, the US has relied on each of these mechanisms to reduce its debt/GDP ratio. In a recent paper (Aizenman and Marion 2009), we examine the role of inflation in reducing the Federal government’s debt burden. We conclude that an inflation of 6% over four years could reduce the debt/GDP ratio by a significant 20%.

    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4413

  20. #45
    Homer 2centsworth's Avatar
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    Many observers worry that the debt-to-GDP ratios projected over the next ten years are unsustainable. Assuming deficits can be reined in, how might the debt/GDP ratio be reduced? There are four basic mechanisms:

    GDP can grow rapidly enough to reduce the ratio. This scenario requires a robust economic recovery from the financial crisis.

    Inflation can rise, eroding the real value of the debt held by creditors and the effective debt ratio. With foreign creditors holding a significant share of the dollar-denominated US federal debt, they will share the burden of any higher US inflation along with domestic creditors.

    The government can use tax revenue to redeem some of the debt.

    The government can default on some of its debt obligations.

    Over its history, the US has relied on each of these mechanisms to reduce its debt/GDP ratio. In a recent paper (Aizenman and Marion 2009), we examine the role of inflation in reducing the Federal government’s debt burden. We conclude that an inflation of 6% over four years could reduce the debt/GDP ratio by a significant 20%.

    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/4413
    they do not understand the Monetary System.

    Dangerous info in the hands of blind libs (Read Innocent Fraud #1)

  21. #46
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    i have the solution

    pay them the money, legislate no chinamen is allowed to buy american assets

    scrap current currency and introduced new curency.....change ratio NIL.

  22. #47
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Zero is the asymptote, inflation is the race to get there. It won't be pretty.

  23. #48
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How do we default on debts payable in the currency we created?
    To answer the question posed by the thread le: Extremely unlikely.

    As for the second question: Not sure exactly what you are asking.

    We could simply inflate our way out of the mess, by flooding the market with dollars (making each dollar cheaper and easing the burden of payment). US government debt is denominated in dollars exclusively.

    Example:

    1 dollar equals, say, 1 euro. We pay out in dollars, then the risk of currency conversion is borne by the person with the euros.

    Bond payment is 100 dollars and that is translated into 100 euros by the Europeans.

    Inflation happens and it takes 2 dollars to make 1 euro. This inflation has consequently increased tax revenues in dollars, making that same 100 dollar payment easier.

    The person with the euros who has to pay his utilities and buy groceries in euros is pissed, because what paid out 100 euros before the inflation, now pays out 50 euros.

    This would be a VERY undesirable thing on several fronts, simply because it would really raise the cost of future borrowing a LOT. It would solve the short term problem of debt payments, but create a longer term problem of lack of confidence.

    That is something of a simplification. Hope it helps.

  24. #49
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    you clowns should do what the viet cong did after vn war, it didnt matter how much money u had or what gold bullion bars u hold, lol each family was only allowed the same amount total per household exchanging the previous currency to new currency...did you know how many ppl jump to their deaths after bring in all there savings and can only change to the same amount as the next person...

  25. #50
    Garnett > Duncan sickdsm's Avatar
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    Currently i feel we have China over a bigger barrel with ag exports then they do with debt. Short term anyway.


    You may have lots of problems but when you're hungry, you only have ONE problem.

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