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Cavs with LeBron: Finals candidates.
Cavs without LeBron: Bottom 5 team in NBA history, possibly worst ever.
/thread
“Rondo’s a good guy, a good player, but he didn’t cause any problems or hurt us from getting into our sets.”
To all you Miami and San Antonio Heat fans this is it for ya boy....Harlemheat rocking that gay ass Lebron in water with his shirt off picture is in trouble...He don't get it done this year he's toast...He got all the help he could ever need. He has to win it this year or next and the chances of that happening is very slim. Rondo cancels Wade out in many facets of the game...Winning it eventually when Boston's big 3 gets dissolved won't matter then...
Mark my words Lebron will go down as the modern day Charles Barkley and Karl Malone rolled into one...Lebron asked for an invite to the party and Kobe sent him one but for the last 3 yrs Lebron simply refused to show up...Nike even sponsored puppet commercials and all...
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Cavs with LeBron: Finals candidates.
Cavs without LeBron: Bottom 5 team in NBA history, possibly worst ever.
/thread
They're a different team though, it's not just LeBron. It's Shaq, Ilguaskas, Delonte West, new coach, etc.
Shaq, Z, and Delonte West are suddenly the difference in a 60+ win championship contender and a sub 15 win team setting records for losses. Who knew!? I guess the 36 games Shaq has played in and Z's monster 5 and 4 average this year are probably worth 40 wins, at least.
The delusion some people have just because they hate LeBron is astounding. LeBron's averaging 26, 7+, and 7+ with almost two steals per game while playing less minutes than his career average. He's shooting 48.5% from the field, higher than his career average, and the Miami Heat are already within 8 wins of their mark they set last year, and this is still before the All-Star break.
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 02-14-2011 at 09:31 AM.
I'm just saying. If you take the exact team last year, exact coach, everybody else in the NBA with the same rosters as last year, except you remove LeBron from the team, they'd likely win more games than this year. I'm not saying he's not a huge difference and that they'd be some kind of winning team or anything, I'm just saying that it's not the same Cavs team - LeBron. Maybe if they had more inside presence and a decent guard they wouldn't have set records for being one of the worst teams of all time.
they actually had their best record as a whole without shaq, who is perhaps the only impact player out of those guys. the other two are simply role players who probably dont bring much more than 2-3 extra wins to the team, if that. in fact, a good argument could be made that they would be better off without those two, because Ilgauskas would slow them down considering they are a pretty athletic team, and West is pretty much incapable of making a consistent positive impact without Lebron around, considering his complete inability to run an offense efficiently.
Byron Scott >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike Brown
Good point; the Cavs have also had a bunch of injuries
I shall amend my statement to something a bit more agreeable.
Cavs with LeBron: Finals candidates every year.
Cavs without LeBron: Worst team in the league with basically the same players, if not bottom two.
The whole Cavs just quit... They were not that bad early in the season.
They were not going anywhere... but could have avoided being the worst team ever. I am not sure one or two player would have made any difference.
And Varejao, they completely imploded once he went down.
Of course Lebron is the big difference but anyone assigning their decline Simply to Lebron is obtuse or to put it quite simply moronic ...
Not only did they lose their size Verejao has played little so add him to that list that is losing their 3 best big men.
Mo williams wheter deserved or not ...is a fringe all-star and missed a heap of games ...yes he is overrated but look at the difference he made in their Clippers win. Daniel Gibson has also been hurt as well ...
It's easy to say it's all Lebron. I am not a hater, I have said here repeatededly has GOAT potential but havoc, for someone who complains about people swalloing the media hype on Kobe, you are buying that Lebron's leaving is the reason why they dropped this far, which is bull .
Yes, he is a big part but if you add those guys back and give them reasonable health (they have been ravaged by injuries) no way they are top 5 worst team of all time ... they probably at least a 30 -35 win club ..but we will never know.
But this years Cavs minus Lebron is at least 30-40% worse than last years team, without him. Cavs actually won games without Lebron last year and almost beat the Magic or Boston late in the year when they rested James ... (IIRC).
Fixed ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 02-14-2011 at 11:18 AM.
8for3 gets it ...
Worst team in the league missing at least 5 players from last year's team including Lebron ... fixed.
And last I don't deny Lebron being the the most dominant player, and one of the best regular season players I have ever seen. He just needs to ring. But look at the heat to validate his greatness ...or the Cavs the past two years. This year's Cavs is an apples to oranges comparison ...
Of course he's not the only reason. But he's the primary one.
That team that just lost by 15 to the road-winless Wizards with Mo? Come on now. 25-30 wins at best.Yes, he is a big part but if you add those guys back and give them reasonable health (they have been ravaged by injuries) no way they are top 5 worst team of all time ... they probably at least a 35 -40 win club ..but we will never know.
maybe 30-35 ... But again you forgetting that they dont have Verejao on this team and if the original point is how is this team is different INLUDING Lebron's absence you cant deny Verejao or losing two 7 footers.
Are you telling me that in the 10 close games they played during the 25 game losing streak that MO,Shaq, verejao, Delonte or DanieL Gibson would of not made a difference?
40 would be maximizing but 30-35 is about right to me assuming good health.
Dont see your quibble, didnt the cavs win like 57 games? that is like a 22 games difference at at 35 wins ... how much more credit do you want him to get? He is the two time MVP and most dominating player in the game ...no need to exaggerate and suck him off on top of it ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 02-14-2011 at 11:22 AM.
I'm merely providing a counterpoint to the, "Oh, well they'd still be a good team without him if they didn't lose player 'x'."
Ah LeBron will go down as the next Kobe - not winning a ring till his team signs or trades for a legit all star big (and no, CB is a pussy, not a big man)
But it's not JUST player X they also lost Y and Z and W ...Lebron was "A" no doubt about that but it's not apples to apples and that is my "counterpoint".
None of what I say discredits Lebron like I said I would say if healthy and no other losses that is still a 20 game difference and Miami will probaly win at least 15 more (though Bosh was added too) games and he makes them a contender.
Im just saying it's lazy, a cop-out or simply untrue to point to Lebron as the reason why the Cavs suck this bad or go back and give him extra credit or praise for carrying last year's cavs team, based on THIS cavs team when THIS team has been at times without 5 players from last year's squad including Lebron ...
Meh, you have a point, I probably over-exaggerated, in no small part out of frustration with people who seem to think he's only a 5-10 win difference in the Cavs. I had a couple of people tell me before the season started that they thought the Cavs would make a run at a 5 seed out East. I asked them if they wanted to put money on it, and they said that they don't gamble.
Just curious, KK81, do you think Kobe, MJ, or any previous NBA superstar would have been able to win a le with the Cavs team from the past 2 seasons?
Probably not even MJ or Magic ...Reason I used those two examples, MJ is considered the GOAT scorere and Magic the GOAT team player (by most but debateable in both cases) and I doubt that is a " le" team.Meh, you have a point, I probably over-exaggerated, in no small part out of frustration with people who seem to think he's only a 5-10 win difference in the Cavs. I had a couple of people tell me before the season started that they thought the Cavs would make a run at a 5 seed out East. I asked them if they wanted to put money on it, and they said that they don't gamble.
Just curious, KK81, do you think Kobe, MJ, or any previous NBA superstar would have been able to win a le with the Cavs team from the past 2 seasons?
My only critique of Lebron for the "DEcision" (besides how he did it) is that he would of won eventually. Sure they needed more help ...Jamison was not that #2 he needed ...and Mo is suited for a #3 role. If he stayed in Cleveland I believe he could of got a #2 to sign. Maybe not Bosh or wade but I think Lebron is so good he doesnt NEED them. I think a team of say:
PG Mo Williams
SG Eric Gordon (best SG I think they could get that would fit well, Montae is a bad fit)
SF Lebron/Jamison
PF Verejao/Hickson
C Shaq/Z/Verejao
I think Lebron, if he becomes as good as I think he can he would of and coulda won in Cleveland ...eventually.
Lakers, Celts and Spurs big 3 (or two) are aging ...
Bulls, OKC are a couple seasons away ...
The team above could win a le ... even if Bosh and wade teamed up without him. The centers are old and they would need to find cheap help there ...but Lebron didnt need to leave to win a le ...he just needed to stay patient ...the league will be his soon if he stays healthy.
hmmm"I don't care what you say to me. I don't give a [expletive] what you say, but don't be disrespectful."
dont forget to add injured varejao and mo williams to that list.
I can't wait to see Lebron get punked in the playoffs again. I may start to believe there is a god if this mfer never wins a le.
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