Best Player in Texas???

[Solid D]

Van Cliburn

[maddnezz]

lol still going with that "choke artist" bull that lives in your feeble little minds

This Feeble boy .Try again with a better take . your kid if you have one is prob better than you at something, like maybe dealing with reality? No diss just fact. When Tim and Dirk play a one on one best out of three match let me know son, I'll pay for your traveling expenses.

[TD 21]

Look, Mavs fans, I've got nothing against Nowitzki. I've been more than fair about his place in the game. I said earlier in the season he should be starting in the All-Star game, I've called him a no brainer future Hall-of-Famer and a top ten player of the past decade.

I'm just not going to pretend he's not without a boatload of flaws as a player, just because he scores lots of points. People nitpick myriad high scoring bigs like Stoudemire, Bosh, Randolph, etc. and even Hall-of-Famers like Robinson, Ewing, Malone, etc., because they are/were defenseless, or soft, or couldn't be the lead player on a championship team, etc. Yet all of that get's overlooked when it comes to Nowitzki, because he's white.

I'd still take Duncan over Nowitzki, because I value defense, shot blocking, rebounding, passing, screen setting, etc. Duncan's also had more of an offensive impact than Nowitzki. If you don't understand how, they you don't understand basketball.

[Shank]

This is all being taken out of context. The OP is likely referring to Barkley's comments about the 'best player in Texas right now'. So all your horsehit about 4 rings and career numbers obviously don't apply. But it's good to see you all mad and pissy. It doesn't take much to set off Spurfan.

[Hoops Czar]

I'd still take Duncan over Nowitzki, because I value defense, shot blocking, rebounding, passing, screen setting, etc. Duncan's also had more of an offensive impact than Nowitzki. If you don't understand how, they you don't understand basketball.

Well thats fine... Apparently, Dirk can't set a screen or grab a rebound, or pass the ball or tie his shoes. Yet, for the same reason Duncan doesn't score a lot of points because of the strong supporting cast, Chandler grabs the blocks and rebounds so Dirk can concentrate on Offense. And then you say Duncan has more of an impact than Dirk this year... take off your Spurs goggles. Have you not noticed how poorly the Mavs played when Dirk went down? Both the offense and defense struggled mightily. If you can't see that Dirk is the better player this year, then I don't know what to say...

I'm just not going to pretend he's not without a boatload of flaws as a player, just because he scores lots of points.

You mean Duncan is flawless?? You mean to tell me OLD is not a flaw?

[TD 21]

Well thats fine... Apparently, Dirk can't set a screen or grab a rebound, or pass the ball or tie his shoes. Yet, for the same reason Duncan doesn't score a lot of points because of the strong supporting cast, Chandler grabs the blocks and rebounds so Dirk can concentrate on Offense. And then you say Duncan has more of an impact than Dirk this year... take off your Spurs goggles. Have you not noticed how poorly the Mavs played when Dirk went down? Both the offense and defense struggled mightily. If you can't see that Dirk is the better player this year, then I don't know what to say...

I never said that. Just another message board clown that lacks basic reading comprehension. When I said Duncan has had more of an offensive impact, I meant career-wise.

The Mavs played poorly when Nowitzki went down because they lack players who can create their own shot and are explosive offensively to begin with. That was exacerbated with Butler and Beaubois also down. That says more about their roster composition than it does Nowitzki.

Nowitzki is the better range shooter and that's it. He does nothing else anywhere close to as well as Duncan. He's the worst screen setting big I've ever seen, is an average passer, his rebounding is verging on terrible, he's a decent team defender, but a weak man defender and he provides little shot blocking.

Who said Duncan was flawless? No player is flawless. Yeah, he's old, but so is Nowitzki. He still impacts the game in a lot more ways than Mr. One Dimensional, though.

[Hoops Czar]

I never said that. Just another message board clown that lacks basic reading comprehension. When I said Duncan has had more of an offensive impact, I meant career-wise.

The Mavs played poorly when Nowitzki went down because they lack players who can get their own shot and are explosive offensively to begin with. That was exacerbated with Butler and Beaubois also down. That says more about their roster composition than it does Nowitzki, though.

Nowitzki is the better range shooter and that's it. He does nothing else anywhere close to as well as Duncan. He's the worst screen setting big I've ever seen, is an average passer, his rebounding is verging on terrible, he's a decent team defender, but a weak man defender and he provides little shot blocking.

Reading comprehension to the message board flunky... The thread reads "Best player in Texas???" I guess to many simpletons, who can't accept cold hard facts, have to jump in with the "career wise" angle because you simply can't give credit where credit is due without mentioning TD.

Plain and simple, Duncan is a mere role player for the 1st place Spurs while Dirk is still the star for the second-place Mavs.

Don't make this about Beaubois, he was never in the equation. Dirk’s steadiness and reliability has made his constantly stellar play go under-appreciated. The minutes, boards, and steals are down slightly for Dirk this year because of all the help he has from his teammates, but his FG% is at a career high. The Mavs struggled because they lost their main playmaker, the No. 1 option in crunch time. Butler's injury heightened the concern, but was not the reason for the Mavs struggles.

Dirk averages 8 rebounds/year, hardly verging on terrible. You must be confusing Nowitski with Splitter.

Don't be confused by the few blocks Duncan receives in the paint. Maybe you should count the number of attempts has well. He gives up a ton of easy layups because he's out of position or he's just too slow. The numbers game can be very misleading. Have you not noticed how the paint is attacked on nearly every possession with or without Duncan in the game?

[TD 21]

Reading comprehension to the message board flunky... The thread reads "Best player in Texas???" I guess to many simpletons, who can't accept cold hard facts, have to jump in with the "career wise" angle because you simply can't give credit where credit is due without mentioning TD.

Plain and simple, Duncan is a mere role player for the 1st place Spurs while Dirk is still the star for the second-place Mavs.

Don't make this about Beaubois, he was never in the equation. Dirk’s steadiness and reliability has made his constantly stellar play go under-appreciated. The minutes, boards, and steals are down slightly for Dirk this year because of all the help he has from his teammates, but his FG% is at a career high. The Mavs struggled because they lost their main playmaker, the No. 1 option in crunch time. Butler's injury heightened the concern, but was not the reason for the Mavs struggles.

Dirk averages 8 rebounds/year, hardly verging on terrible. You must be confusing Nowitski with Splitter.

I said offensively he's had a bigger impact career-wise, in response to Phillip's claim that Nowitzki has. Other than that, nothing I've said has been career-wise. I'm talking right now, please tell me what Nowitzki does better than Duncan, other than range shooting?

The Mavs struggled mightily when Nowitzki went down because either their second or third best scorer and fourth best scorer were also down to begin with, so when Nowitzki went down, it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Why is that so difficult to grasp? If you had an ounce of intelligence, you'd realize that's not a knock on him. It speaks more to how they're constructed. If Duncan went down, the Spurs would fall off dramatically defensively. Does that make him the Defensive Player of the Year or does it speak more to how they're constructed?

No chance Nowitzki is "under-appreciated". He's arguably the most over-appreciated player in the entire league. He pissed away a gift wrapped championship, has never won one despite annually having a top three payroll and is one dimensional, yet he's hailed as some all-time great. It's ridiculous. If he weren't white, he'd be scrutinized to no end, just like the examples I listed.

Who cares about average? That's primarily a product of height and minutes, not prowess. Rebound percentage is a much better indication of prowess. He's at 11.2%, good for T-119th. Splitter's at 14.0, good for 73rd. He's clearly a superior rebounder to Nowitzki.

[Shank]

I said offensively he's had a bigger impact career-wise, in response to Phillip's claim that Nowitzki has. Other than that, nothing I've said has been career-wise. I'm talking right now, please tell me what Nowitzki does better than Duncan, other than range shooting?

The Mavs struggled mightily when Nowitzki went down because either their second or third best scorer and fourth best scorer were also down to begin with, so when Nowitzki went down, it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Why is that so difficult to grasp? If you had an ounce of intelligence, you'd realize that's not a knock on him. It speaks more to how they're constructed. If Duncan went down, the Spurs would fall off dramatically defensively. Does that make him the Defensive Player of the Year or does it speak more to how they're constructed?

No chance Nowitzki is "under-appreciated". He's arguably the most over-appreciated player in the entire league. He pissed away a gift wrapped championship, has never won one despite annually having a top three payroll and is one dimensional, yet he's hailed as some all-time great. It's ridiculous. If he weren't white, he'd be scrutinized to no end, just like the examples I listed.

Who cares about average? That's primarily a product of height and minutes, not prowess. Rebound percentage is a much better indication of prowess. He's at 11.2%, good for T-119th. Splitter's at 14.0, good for 73rd. He's clearly a superior rebounder to Nowitzki.

Classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees.

[maddnezz]

This is all being taken out of context. The OP is likely referring to Barkley's comments about the 'best player in Texas right now'. So all your horsehit about 4 rings and career numbers obviously don't apply. But it's good to see you all mad and pissy. It doesn't take much to set off Spurfan.

And yet your still here in spurtalk like a crackfiend in a crackhouse. The only solace you get is to come here and TRY to piss someone off. Sad little mav fan. I'd like to root for your team cause it's from the grear state of TEXAS but some of the fans with your mentality make it really hard. I kinda wish you would of beat the Heat so we could boast as the only state in history with 3 pro basketball teams that all had a championship. But remember Dirk aint gonna win a ring by himself so you might wanna go talk to Mr. Cuban bout that one buddy. And I feel for you in your support for your team, we had a lot of years in SA when big Dave didnt win ! So maybe Dirk needs to pull a Lebron and move on. Just a thought,

[ezau]

destroy? Not quite. I think they both pretty much are a deadlock going head to head at their best. Both of them have extremely unique skill-sets, and neither have ever been able to guard each other effectively. Pop would never let timmy guard dirk straight up, even when timmy was in his prime, and dirk was still developing.

If you are talking about career accomplishments, then sure, although duncan pretty much destroys the vast majority of players in nba history in those.

4>0

[Shank]

And yet your still here in spurtalk like a crackfiend in a crackhouse. The only solace you get is to come here and TRY to piss someone off. Sad little mav fan. I'd like to root for your team cause it's from the grear state of TEXAS but some of the fans with your mentality make it really hard. I kinda wish you would of beat the Heat so we could boast as the only state in history with 3 pro basketball teams that all had a championship. But remember Dirk aint gonna win a ring by himself so you might wanna go talk to Mr. Cuban bout that one buddy. And I feel for you in your support for your team, we had a lot of years in SA when big Dave didnt win ! So maybe Dirk needs to pull a Lebron and move on. Just a thought,

I'm not going to read all that. The first sentence alone told me it was going to be the same cliche bull that I've been reading for over 5 years. Try to come with something new. Dig?

[Spurologist]

We all know the answer sons...no need to hurt feelings. God bless

whatever helps you sleep better at night

[koriwhat]

Nowitzki is the best right now. He is one of the hardest players to defend in the history of the game. I have to say that when he is on he can not be stopped. How can you defend a fadeaway jumper from a 6'11" guy?

In his prime Duncan. #2 player in Texas is Ginobili.

gotta love that off-arm and step back over and over again with no calls. just sayin'.

[Phillip]

his rebounding is verging on terrible

his rebounding is not nearly as bad as you say. im not sure many, if any players in the NBA have better timing on their rebounds than Dirk does. its extremely rare to see him mistime a rebound, and because of that, he very frequently is able to snag rebounds away from guys who have far more athletic ability and SHOULD be getting the rebounds, like Dwight Howard, KG, etc...

the reason why Dirk has never had great rebounding totals, is because he doesnt get very many offensive rebounds, and that is mainly due to his offensive playing style. he plays a lot on the perimeter and high post, and the majority of the offense is ran through him out there, especially since having him on the perimeter usually means a big man is being taken out of the middle, allowing other guys to more easily get rebounds and get into the lane for easier buckets.

fact is, on the defensive glass, dirk has always been solid at DRPG, with very respectable defensive rebound % numbers. i believe for his career he snags around 22% of the available defensive rebounds when on the floor. compare it to Pau Gasol, who is commonly known as a very solid rebounder, Dirk statistically is a considerably superior defensive rebounder. To say that Dirk is on the verge of being a "terrible" rebounder is quite misinformed, which isnt something i wouldnt expect from you, considering your constant ignorance about Dirk.

[Phillip]

[InRareForm]

[InRareForm]

[Hoops Czar]

I said offensively he's had a bigger impact career-wise, in response to Phillip's claim that Nowitzki has. Other than that, nothing I've said has been career-wise. I'm talking right now, please tell me what Nowitzki does better than Duncan, other than range shooting?

The Mavs struggled mightily when Nowitzki went down because either their second or third best scorer and fourth best scorer were also down to begin with, so when Nowitzki went down, it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Why is that so difficult to grasp? If you had an ounce of intelligence, you'd realize that's not a knock on him. It speaks more to how they're constructed. If Duncan went down, the Spurs would fall off dramatically defensively. Does that make him the Defensive Player of the Year or does it speak more to how they're constructed?

No chance Nowitzki is "under-appreciated". He's arguably the most over-appreciated player in the entire league. He pissed away a gift wrapped championship, has never won one despite annually having a top three payroll and is one dimensional, yet he's hailed as some all-time great. It's ridiculous. If he weren't white, he'd be scrutinized to no end, just like the examples I listed.

Who cares about average? That's primarily a product of height and minutes, not prowess. Rebound percentage is a much better indication of prowess. He's at 11.2%, good for T-119th. Splitter's at 14.0, good for 73rd. He's clearly a superior rebounder to Nowitzki.

So far this season, no team has depended more on one player than the Mavs have with Nowitzki. The numbers are staggering. Even if we exclude the fact that Dirk had a league-high 27.0 plus-minus differential prior to his injury, when Nowitzki's in the game, the Mavs had outscored their opponent by 13.3 points per 48 minutes. When he was out, the Mavs got outscored by 13.7 points per 48 minutes. That's the largest swing for any player with enough minutes to matter in the league. The fact that the Mavs were mediocre without Nowitzki is only surprising to those who are delusional or in denial. While Duncan still produces, the Spurs can afford to rest him games without it affecting the team in the standings.

Butler is Not the impact player you think he is. Two of those seven losses came with Butler in the lineup. Does it still not surprise that the Mavs are still without Butler and they've polished off 14 of their last 15? Are you going to somehow make this about the return of Roddy B. who hasn't played long enough to make a serious impact and Peja who's only made an impact in 1 of his 6 games played? Your right... Its not hard to grasp but its easy to deny.

You talk about Nowitski pissing away a championship in 2006? Basketball is a team sport. No one player pisses away a championship. Dirk doesn't have GM responsibilities. He has no control over payroll and doesn't hand pick his teammates. Brian Cashman has only one championship under his watchful eye and yet has the highest payroll in baseball year in and year out. Putting together a competent team is half the battle, but that's not Dirk's fight. If Duncan didn't have Ginobili, Parker, or the Admiral to lean on, I wonder how many Championships TD would have.... And you talk about all-time greats, Stockton and Malone never won a championship, yet they're hailed as two of the all-time greats. And I'll leave Lebron out of this.

HOLY BLEEPING SH!T!!!! That wasn't suppose to be taken seriously. Your going to seriously compare Splitter's garbage time production to that of Dirk. Splitter with his smurf hands (which causes the ball to slip out of his grasp on a regular basis) gets bounced around like a rag doll and arguably over-matched in almost every situation. Splitter is NOT a good rebounder nor will he ever be. He may one day become a solid role player but that's likely his ceiling. Like you said, thank god he's white or he would undoubtedly be receiving the Mahimni treatment.

Nobody is denying Duncan's career achievements... Career-wise Duncan has the edge, but this year, its clearly Nowitski.

[G-Dawgg]

Dirk is NOT the best player in Texas. He only plays half the game of basketball... he may be the best "offensive player", but that wasn't the question that you asked. You asked who is "the BEST player". That would be Manu Ginobili.

[maddnezz]

I'm not going to read all that. The first sentence alone told me it was going to be the same cliche bull that I've been reading for over 5 years. Try to come with something new. Dig?

So I guess the sky is green and blue? move along sir move along..........

[J_Paco]

One of five players in NBA history to average 25-10 in the post season. Yeah, I guess that makes you a one dimensional choke artist. One bad series in 10 years of post season play does not make someone a choke artist.

This thread is stupid and pointless. But, did Dirk win a championship during any of his playoff runs???? Well, then that means he's a choke-artist in most people's opinions. Other than a couple series against the Spurs and Suns, Dirk usually shrivels up like a raisin in the sun during winning time. He can knock'em down during the regular season, though.

Look, Mavs fans, I've got nothing against Nowitzki. I've been more than fair about his place in the game. I said earlier in the season he should be starting in the All-Star game, I've called him a no brainer future Hall-of-Famer and a top ten player of the past decade.

I'm just not going to pretend he's not without a boatload of flaws as a player, just because he scores lots of points. People nitpick myriad high scoring bigs like Stoudemire, Bosh, Randolph, etc. and even Hall-of-Famers like Robinson, Ewing, Malone, etc., because they are/were defenseless, or soft, or couldn't be the lead player on a championship team, etc. Yet all of that get's overlooked when it comes to Nowitzki, because he's white.

I'd still take Duncan over Nowitzki, because I value defense, shot blocking, rebounding, passing, screen setting, etc. Duncan's also had more of an offensive impact than Nowitzki. If you don't understand how, they you don't understand basketball.

+1000

You talk about Nowitski pissing away a championship in 2006? Basketball is a team sport. No one player pisses away a championship. Dirk doesn't have GM responsibilities. He has no control over payroll and doesn't hand pick his teammates. Brian Cashman has only one championship under his watchful eye and yet has the highest payroll in baseball year in and year out. Putting together a competent team is half the battle, but that's not Dirk's fight. If Duncan didn't have Ginobili, Parker, or the Admiral to lean on, I wonder how many Championships TD would have.... And you talk about all-time greats, Stockton and Malone never won a championship, yet they're hailed as two of the all-time greats. And I'll leave Lebron out of this.

I don't know if you noticed between writing all that tripe, but Duncan has won a championship while being the only elite player on a le team. Or do you really believe that he "leaned" on a rookie Ginobili, 2nd-year Parker and declining Robinson in '03? The Spurs are a smaller market team and don't have the financial resources that Dallas/Cuban have, yet they've used shrewd moves in the draft and free-agency to surround Duncan with talent. Nowitzki has had plenty of talented teammates like Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Caron Butler and an owner that is willing to spend. Yet, one excuse after another is used when they haven't gotten it done. The two constants throughout the years have been Dirk and Cuban.

[Hoops Czar]

I don't know if you noticed between writing all that tripe, but Duncan has won a championship while being the only elite player on a le team. Or do you really believe that he "leaned" on a rookie Ginobili, 2nd-year Parker and declining Robinson in '03? The Spurs are a smaller market team and don't have the financial resources that Dallas/Cuban have, yet they've used shrewd moves in the draft and free-agency to surround Duncan with talent. Nowitzki has had plenty of talented teammates like Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Caron Butler and an owner that is willing to spend. Yet, one excuse after another is used when they haven't gotten it done. The two constants throughout the years have been Dirk and Cuban.

A Spurs fan who doesn't even recognize Jackson or Bowen as part of the 2003 team is pretty insulting or uneducated. Tony Parker was a huge addition that year and Gino provided a spark off the bench. I think you fail to see the irony of your post. Team basketball wins championships not a couple of superstars and a bunch of bimbo's filling out the roster. Those players you mentioned as talented players are barely that when donning a Mavs uni. Nash didn't take off until he was in Pho; Jamison and Butler are decent scorers and nothing more. None of those aforementioned player played a lick of defense. And with the exception of Finley, they're all still looking for there first championship.... Imagine that.

[J_Paco]

A Spurs fan who doesn't even recognize Jackson or Bowen as part of the 2003 team is pretty insulting or uneducated. Tony Parker was a huge addition that year and Gino provided a spark off the bench. I think you fail to see the irony of your post. Team basketball wins championships not a couple of superstars and a bunch of bimbo's filling out the roster. Those players you mentioned as talented players are barely that when donning a Mavs uni. Nash didn't take off until he was in Pho; Jamison and Butler are decent scorers and nothing more. None of those aforementioned player played a lick of defense. And with the exception of Finley, they're all still looking for there first championship.... Imagine that.

Yeah, Bruce and S-Jax were lighting it up for that le team. How many points did they average respectively, again? Oh, a combined 19 points per game between them was a devastating amount. That team won the championship because Duncan played the best season of his career, Popovich did his best coaching job ever and luck/good fortune was on their side throughout the season/playoffs. The role-players and Robinson did their part, but Duncan was the catalyst.

Nowtizki has played on plenty of talented and balanced teams, but they've always come up short. People always avoid putting the blame directly on his shoulders or deflect it by saying it's Cuban or his teammates fault. , we've even seen Dirk blame his teammates during games and press conferences. He's not built to lead a team to a championship as the number one guy, but people can continue to delude themselves into believing he is.

[UnWantedTheory]

Dirk is easily the best player in Texas at the moment. For how much longer, I am not sure.

In regards to this TD vs. Dirk , I will say this for both of their careers...If you tell Tim that he needs to get 20 & 10 to win the game, he gets 25 & 14. If you tell Dirk he needs 20 & 10, he gets you 20 & 10. I happen to respect Dirk, that's just the way I see it.