The Facebook Revolution in Lybia

[PublicOption]

Oil Companies afraid of losing cash cow.......As Foxnews plays along......man they are heads.

Foxnews loves Oil Companies, Oil Companies love Khadafi. ergo Foxnews supports Khadafi. so much for the Reagan lovefest.

[Yonivore]

My understand is this source isn't always reliable but, I'm not hearing this anywhere else and, if true, is an important development.

US warships box in Iranian flotilla, delay Suez passage

Thursday night, Feb. 17, the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, escorted by missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf and the fast supply ship USNS Arctic, headed south through the canal. By Friday morning, they were through and taking up position opposite the Kharg cruiser and Alvand missile destroyer of the Iranian Navy's 12th Flotilla, which were waiting to enter the Suez Canal at the southern Red Sea entrance.

Furthermore, since the first week of February, the USS Kearsarge, another aircraft carrier, was posted in the Great Bitter Lake opposite Ismailia and the canal's main routes with a large contingent of marines aboard.

The USS George Washington carrier and the USS Carl Vinson were additionally deployed in the Gulf of Aden, the latter having been moved from the Pacific.

A battle of nerves is therefore underway.

This could explain why the Egyptians say the Iranians haven't passed through the Suez while the Iranians claim they have.

[RandomGuy]

I say this with all due respect; you're just plain wrong.

The United States of America has been the greatest force for good ever known in the world. If we "dectupled" the aid we're doling out, all around the world, we'd go broke.

Sometimes you have to fight.

My plan? Start killing the leaders of these ing Islamic Extremist movements. Lift the assassination bans and just start blowing them up in front of their throngs of "enraged" Islamic masses. 'em.

I'd start with a cruise missile to the podium the next time Ahmadenijad gives one of his wipe Israel off the map speeches. Hopefully, the whole cadre of mentally defective Mullahs will be sitting there with him.

First off, let's start with the USAID budget. What we "dole out" represents less than .3% of the overall federal budget. Do you really think a 14Trillion dollar economy will "go broke" by spending 87Bn per year? (if we were to multiply our foreign aid budget by a factor of ten from the current 8.7bn)?

I will assume that you are probably unaware of that small fact. Most Americans dont' really know how little we spend alleviating suffering.

I do agree with you on one thing at least. I think we are the greatest force for good in the world. We could be so much better, unfettered by failed ideas of the past.

The " 'em" didn't work for, well, anybody.

That strategy lost us Vietnam. Killing indescriminantly just pisses people off.

This was one of *THE* main lessons learned in just about any war.

Quite frankly, the " 'em" strategy is about the worst thing you could do. It erodes your own moral authority, and convinces people that what your enemies say about you is true.

Your turn. How would *you* fight the idea that you are evil?

[MannyIsGod]

Yonivore is practically getting wood at the thought of US military action.

[ChumpDumper]

yoni wants to sacrifice his own child for no good reason.

Sounds about right.

[RandomGuy]

My understand is this source isn't always reliable but, I'm not hearing this anywhere else and, if true, is an important development.

US warships box in Iranian flotilla, delay Suez passage


This could explain why the Egyptians say the Iranians haven't passed through the Suez while the Iranians claim they have.

Iranian navy = WW2 era surplus.

, we have coast guard cutters that would probably have the capacity to give the destroyers the Iranians have a run for their money.

I exaggerate here for the sake of humor, but not by much.

It is a symbolic gesture and little more. I would guess that the Iranian request probably "fell through the cracks" in the recent chaos, although it does seem that the Egyptians are obligated by treaty, if not by recent practice, to allow Iranian naval vessels passage.

[RandomGuy]

My plan? Start killing the leaders of these ing Islamic Extremist movements. Lift the assassination bans and just start blowing them up in front of their throngs of "enraged" Islamic masses. 'em.

I'd start with a cruise missile to the podium the next time Ahmadenijad gives one of his wipe Israel off the map speeches. Hopefully, the whole cadre of mentally defective Mullahs will be sitting there with him.

Because nothing says "we're not evil" like killing religious leaders.

I am simply reminded in the recent events by a few choice words.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Heard George Friedman again on the radio today, this time on 1190's 4-6 pm show Wall Street Shuffle.

He basically said (CBF paraphrase naturally) who gives a about Libya. If the damage to US interests in Libya could be rated a "2" the possible damage to US interest in a failing Bahrain would be a "9".

And he believes all of these riots in various countries could essentially be fomented and part of a larger Iranian plan that they intended to kick into action following the full US evacuation from Iraq.

He said it's quite ironic how [stupid dumb s like most of you] had wanted to invade Iraq for all these reasons, yet no matter WHAT happens now, we plan on leaving, and that will only strengthen Iran. [Which could be why Cheney and W were trying ever so hard to provoke or even preemptive strike Iran in W's last days...] This strenghtening of Iran is an inevitability, the only question is when.

He believes Iran had a plan, via SOCIAL NETWORKS, to essentially encircle Saudi Arabia, and completely shift the balance of power in the Middle East to its favor once we left. And after the Tunisia spontaneity, they went full steam ahead with their plans, knowing it could be a "strike while the iron is hot" scenario. It's all about Iran trying to awaken Shiites and isolate/encircle Saudi Arabia.

Iraq will inevitably become a client state of Iran, because the only way Iraq can survive once we leave is by subservient to Iran.

I advice anyone remotely interested to check out stratfor, or some podcasts of any shows this guy has been doing.

I'm not sure I agree with him but he sheds a lot of light on this situation, from a point of view most aren't getting.


He again scoffed at the idea of Egypt's "revolution" being anything "grassroots" and said the "military was able to do what they had been waiting to do for months".
hnnnaturally


But the Situation in Bahrain is insane. No quality thread on that, so I decided to post this stuff in this thread.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We are seeing a Shiite awakening.

Bahrain is the true key to destabilizing Saudi Arabia. If that can be kept under control, everything else is not that big of a deal.


This region needs another ing Nasser. Can you imagine what Saddam Hussein would do if we can play hypotheticals and you place him in charge of Iraq while all these rebellions are breaking out? The lines used to be Arab-Persian. We are witnessing Iran in their greatest gambit to officially define it as Sunni-Shiite


History is going to rip the Neocon Jack-Off Fest of 2000-2008 as the fastest erosion of empire hegemony in the history of the entire world.
It's absolutely amazing to see how far we've come in so little time.

Hey but at least you rich s got that tax break!

[ChumpDumper]

There just aren't enough Shiites to pull something like that off.

Iran is already surrounded by Sunnis -- maybe it's possible that Iran is looking for buffers or a sphere of influence like the Soviet Union and China have done in the past, but it's far from a takeover.

Your point that neocons really ed up is well taken, however.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

There just aren't enough Shiites to pull something like that off.

Iran is already surrounded by Sunnis -- maybe it's possible that Iran is looking for buffers or a sphere of influence like the Soviet Union and China have done in the past, but it's far from a takeover.

Your point that neocons really ed up is well taken, however.

They don't need to necessarily put every country under Shiite rule

But S.A. does have it's fair share of Shiites that can contribute to regime change...especially given that the chances of that happening increase if Bahrain undergoes regime change.

I get how Libya, Tunisia, Egypt aren't necessarily about Shiite/Sunni, but if Iran can get greater Shiite sway in S.A., by default they are already going to get it in Iraq, they stand ready to be the greatest single influence in the Middle East. Considering our 5th fleet will probably be without a base if Bahrain's regime changes, this can be serious .

It's all about power projection...and they're moving their chess pieces in position to project a lot of power without even having a nuclear bomb.

Once they get that nuclear bomb, Iran becomes a new global power. It can seriously be like the book Dune, where Iran is kind of like Arrakis. They can affect global events and policies simply by their existence.

Zbigniew Brzezinski, in his book The Grand Chessboard listed Iran as one of 5 geopolitical flash points, that was in position to affect global events simply via their existence on this planet. It's becoming more and more apparent how they can accomplish that.

[ChumpDumper]

I simply don't think their plans are that grandiose. they probably would have figured out how to refine oil first.

[MannyIsGod]

I think you give Iran far too much credit.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think they know how its a cost/implementation issue

For a while now I've believed that Iran has been begging for an opportunity to officially become top-dog in the Middle East. Surely you realize this is an inevitability?


Even if Iran is not behind this in any way, the instability in the M.E. mainland is only going to accelerate the shift of power in their favor

[ChumpDumper]

I think they know how its a cost/implementation issue

For a while now I've believed that Iran has been begging for an opportunity to officially become top-dog in the Middle East. Surely you realize this is an inevitability?


Even if Iran is not behind this in any way, the instability in the M.E. mainland is only going to accelerate the shift of power in their favor

I believe most Iranians have always wanted Iran to be a regional power, mainly so other countries quit ing with it. Beyond that? Eh....they have too many internal problems of their own to crominate the middle east/south Asia.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think you give Iran far too much credit.

I think the beauty of Iran's position is that they're going against a bogged down United States that is sick of war. This weakens their greatest threat while strengthening their position locally and globally.

There were blogs written as far back as in 2005 when the with Muqtada al-Sadr was going down in the Iraq war, how the entire point of that scenario was Iran trying to re-draw the battle lines. From Arab-Persian to Sunni-Shiite.
I didn't think it was possible any time soon, but this going down serves to accelerate it.


Even if Iran is sitting aside on their hands, with no influence whatsoever, do you think this instability will weaken, strengthen, or unaffect their position?

[MannyIsGod]

Dude if ing Iran could organize a bunch of revolutions through social networking you don't think the US could do that?

I mean com'on.

I think its far too early to see how any of this benefits them in any way. The rest of the middle easy having revolutions isn't going to do wonders for a country that just barely managed to suppress one.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Dude if ing Iran could organize a bunch of revolutions through social networking you don't think the US could do that?

I mean com'on.

I think its far too early to see how any of this benefits them in any way. The rest of the middle easy having revolutions isn't going to do wonders for a country that just barely managed to suppress one.

See, to me you've almost contradicted yourself.

If a bunch of college educated and poor Iranians can do foment that whole "green revolution" episode, it's so impossible to believe the Iranian government can figure out how to use their intelligence to work social networking sites? I guess the people running that country really are cavemen just wanting to get a bomb and jihad us?

And there's nothing to say the US isn't involved in this balls-deep. In fact, I think they are. But that is not to say Iran isn't. I'd expect nothing less than the US to be in around trying to understand how the internet plays its role in revolutions.

But the rest of the M.E. having revolutions will most certainly benefit Iran, the region has a history of a strong solid regime exhibiting influence, and with the new media crap, one that can boast that it is not under US influence can eventually be worth gold.

Iran barely suppressed their revolution? Manny you know that's false.

[ChumpDumper]

You really consider the current Iranian government to be strong and solid?

[MannyIsGod]

Iran did just barely suppress their revolution, CBF. And it wasn't orchestrated through social networking sites. It was a nation that was extremely pissed off after an election that was blatantly rigged and it was reported through social networking sites but its not like some dude in Tehran was sitting around and posting "LOL REVOLUTION" on facebook.

You guys just love yourself some conspiracy theories but there is nothing out there to suggest anymore than people feeding off the discontent and it spreading to neighboring countries.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

You really consider the current Iranian government to be strong and solid?

Relatively after this is played out, yes. Easily. And appearance is reality, as we are witnessing right now.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't get the fascination for looking for these crazy theories on how the revolutions have started. Why not instead just look at history on how these events have unfolded in the past. People get fed up and it builds and if there are enough events it snowballs. You can't orchestrate these situations and because they take a huge number of events and discontent to ferment and can be crushed unless everything goes right.

[MannyIsGod]

Relatively after this is played out, yes. Easily. And appearance is reality, as we are witnessing right now.

Why? You think the people in Iran are more behind their government today than they were one year ago? Really?

[ChumpDumper]

Relatively after this is played out, yes. Easily. And appearance is reality, as we are witnessing right now.

Compared to what?

Egypt?

Sure.

Saudi Arabia?

Not so much.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Iran did just barely suppress their revolution, CBF. And it wasn't orchestrated through social networking sites. It was a nation that was extremely pissed off after an election that was blatantly rigged and it was reported through social networking sites but its not like some dude in Tehran was sitting around and posting "LOL REVOLUTION" on facebook.

You guys just love yourself some conspiracy theories but there is nothing out there to suggest anymore than people feeding off the discontent and it spreading to neighboring countries.

It was an over sensationalized piece of reporting. Just like Libya is supposedly using air planes to murder 400 people a day now.

I kept up with it as well, and if you consider that situation to be "barely under control" then the situation in Bahrain and Yemen must be at "all is breaking loose" levels to you, no?