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  1. #26
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    And, as for the motivation of military men seeking the limelight for selfish motivation, they're a dime a dozen. The networks are strewn with Lt. Colonels that will take just about any position on a topic so long as it pays well.
    Why does Yoni hate our military?

  2. #27
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Why does Yoni hate our military?
    And y'all wonder why I become snarky and resort to ad hominem. Usually, it proceeds from nonsensical rhetoric such as this.

    I'll try not to be baited.

  3. #28
    Pump Bacon Cane's Avatar
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    And y'all wonder why I become snarky and resort to ad hominem. Usually, it proceeds from nonsensical rhetoric such as this.

    I'll try not to be baited.

  4. #29
    The cat won symple19's Avatar
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    lobbying?

  5. #30
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Look, I never said there wasn't an issue, I just don't see one. And, nothing in the article or in this thread convinced me otherwise.
    Fair enough, but there were a few signs you read in haste. Enough that your dismissiveness comes off as more temperamental than learned, even now. Your rejection of material it is clear you barely read in the first place, is not very compelling.
    Is what was done unsavory? Maybe to some but, so is Congressmen and Senators traveling to countries and negotiating with other world leaders to undermine the aims of the United States executive branch and that happens -- even though it is arguably illegal and uncons utional.
    Bush era violations of the Logan Act still upset you? Ok. This relates to the current discussion how, please?
    I'm just not convinced a crime took place. Maybe it should be investigated by real criminal investigators instead of being tried in the media.
    Well and good, but we mainly trade in opinion here.
    The discussion has no time to wait for the legal facts to be established, that can take years. Anyway, the discussion itself relates to the underlying actions.

    You may limit yourself to legal certainties if you wish, but it is absurd to expect much emulation in free-flowing, wide ranging conversations between adults.

  6. #31
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Sidebar related to: Smith-Mundt.

  7. #32
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Fair enough, but there were a few signs you read in haste. Enough that your dismissiveness comes off as more temperamental than learned, even now. Your rejection of material it is clear you barely read in the first place, is not very compelling.
    I figured any salient detail would be elucidated here. But, you're right, I did read in haste -- after discovering in the first page -- the article wasn't going to point to any specific illegalities but would, instead, rely on the allegations of an aggrieved tattler.

    I saw the narrative developing. And, since you didn't come up with any specific acts being alleged, either; I can only conclude my judgment, in not wasting more time closely studying the article, was accurate.

    Bush era violations of the Logan Act still upset you? Ok. This relates to the current discussion how, please?
    The selective outrage of the Left. It seems the left is willing to construct awful conclusions about the acts of Republican administrations based on the slimmest of innuendo while completely failing to notice the blatant acts of the Left.

    Well and good, but we mainly trade in opinion here.

    The discussion has no time to wait for the legal facts to be established, that can take years. Anyway, the discussion itself relates to the underlying actions.

    You may limit yourself to legal certainties if you wish, but it is absurd to expect much emulation in free-flowing, wide ranging conversations between adults.
    And, my opinion is, absent an specific allegation if criminal wrongdoing, I'm not buying it. It appears, on the surface, to be another liberal attempt at smearing an effort with which it simply disagrees.

    The article doesn't allege a crime it crafts a narrative.

  8. #33
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Can't get the link to work. May be my browser as I'm having trouble with other domains and sites. Will try later.

  9. #34
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    (still works for me, boss)

  10. #35
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    I figured any salient detail would be elucidated here. But, you're right, I did read in haste -- after discovering in the first page -- the article wasn't going to point to any specific illegalities but would, instead, rely on the allegations of an aggrieved tattler.
    Who got railroaded by the army for making a principled stand. There's a story there for sure.
    I saw the narrative developing. And, since you didn't come up with any specific acts being alleged, either; I can only conclude my judgment, in not wasting more time closely studying the article, was accurate.
    Your prerogative of course.
    The selective outrage of the Left. It seems the left is willing to construct awful conclusions about the acts of Republican administrations based on the slimmest of innuendo while completely failing to notice the blatant acts of the Left.
    Classic projection. You do the very same thing with striking regularity. Your apparent unawareness of your own resemblance to the hypocrisy you claim to despise, is very striking too.
    And, my opinion is, absent an specific allegation if criminal wrongdoing, I'm not buying it. It appears, on the surface, to be another liberal attempt at smearing an effort with which it simply disagrees.
    Loyal, principled soldiers got smeared for making a principled stand. Just saying.
    The article doesn't allege a crime it crafts a narrative.
    Fair enough, but so what? This whole forum is narrative and nothing but.

  11. #36
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Who got railroaded by the army for making a principled stand. There's a story there for sure.
    Or so we're told.

    Your prerogative of course.
    Of course.

    Classic projection. You do the very same thing with striking regularity. Your apparent unawareness of your own resemblance to the hypocrisy you claim to despise, is very striking too.
    You don't list any examples but, how you characterize me would not be affected by my knowing and responding to such claims...so, have at it.

    Loyal, principled soldiers got smeared for making a principled stand. Just saying.
    Exactly...just saying. That's all the Rolling Stone did, as well. Just said.

    Fair enough, but so what? This whole forum is narrative and nothing but.
    This forum isn't the Rolling Stone Magazine.

  12. #37
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    This forum isn't the Rolling Stone Magazine.
    Nobody said it was. Do you like arguing with nobody?

  13. #38
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Nobody said it was. Do you like arguing with nobody?
    Obviously.

  14. #39
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Between what real posters actually say and what nobody says, you choose to refute what nobody says. Which is totally your prerogative.

  15. #40
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Ignoring the plain meaning of what other posters say in favor of your own rather obvious twistification of what they say is an irritating habit and not a little discourteous.

  16. #41
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Nor does it serve any broader purpose of understanding or moving the conversation. Quite the contrary: it is a hazard that often impedes it.

  17. #42
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    There are real posters here, Yoni, should you choose to engage them.

    Paying attention to what they actually say on a putative discussion board is a fairly minimal/basic level of courtesy, don't you think?

  18. #43
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Between what real posters actually say and what nobody says, you choose to refute what nobody says. Which is totally your prerogative.
    You're the nobody advancing the Rolling Stone's narrative...it's not your narrative or opinion, it's something you read and believe.

  19. #44
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Holy ! I pull up one post, to respond, only to find out you've had some sort of posting spasm. What's the matter, do you think this is Twitter and, therefore, each post is limited by word count?

  20. #45
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    There are real posters here, Yoni, should you choose to engage them.

    Paying attention to what they actually say on a putative discussion board is a fairly minimal/basic level of courtesy, don't you think?
    Nobody in here is real. Nobody. Not even me.

  21. #46
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Holy ! I pull up one post, to respond, only to find out you've had some sort of posting spasm. What's the matter, do you think this is Twitter and, therefore, each post is limited by word count?
    lol. Not at all.

    Others have accused me of post padding, but in truth sometimes I just prefer to keep my posts short.

  22. #47
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Put my original words back in:

    What an awesome way to make a story.

    Take actual quotes, arrange the facts, leave out others...

    Instant story to fit the Rolling Stone's agenda!

    At no time is the colonel quoted as saying he was asked to use his skills on the congressmen.

    Dignitaries include local tribesmen and other people of influence in the region.

    --Add edit--

    Let me change this:

    At no time is the colonel quoted as saying he was asked to use his skills on the congressmen.

    to this:

    At no time is the colonel quoted as saying the general asked to use his skills on the congressmen.
    Last edited by Wild Cobra; 02-24-2011 at 04:37 PM.

  23. #48
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Nobody in here is real. Nobody. Not even me.
    We're all brains in vats, or something like that?

  24. #49
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    At no time is the colonel quoted as saying he was asked to use his skills on the congressmen.
    According to Holmes, the general wanted the IO team to provide a "deeper analysis of pressure points we could use to leverage the delegation for more funds." The general’s chief of staff also asked Holmes how Caldwell could secretly manipulate the U.S. lawmakers without their knowledge. "How do we get these guys to give us more people?" he demanded. "What do I have to plant inside their heads?"

  25. #50
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    We're all brains in vats, or something like that?
    Or are we on the 13th floor?

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