How good are these Knicks?

[TE]

I don't know what the future CBA will look like, but under the current one, I don't think they can add any more over-the-top pieces. Although Miami did pull it off.

Although I vastly overrate Melo, I think you take it to far here. I can sense you have an argument based on the notion that Melo is a complete waste of talent, even if you don't directly state it.


Melo can't be relied to take a team to the top, but he can be a heck of a compliment to a larger group of stars. With that said, the Suns never had a player the caliber of Melo. And Steve Nash isn't no Chauncey Billups. Billups is a better defender and is equally as clutch if not slightly less compared to Nash. Amare looks rejuvenated out there. And the play of the supporting cast gives a vibe that even if their is the slightest bit of chemistry, the Knicks can compete with the likes of a superpower team. If they are to develop really good chemistry, there is no telling how good a team they can be.


My two cents once again.

[ElNono]

Although I vastly overrate Melo, I think you take it to far here. I can sense you have an argument based on the notion that Melo is a complete waste of talent, even if you don't directly state it.

Not at all. I acknowledge Melo is very talented and so is Amare. That's why I call them superstars. They're athletic, young, and can score at will. They don't strike me as a smart duo making in-game decisions (like Billups), but that doesn't mean they're all bad.

Melo can't be relied to take a team to the top, but he can be a heck of a compliment to a larger group of stars. With that said, the Suns never had a player the caliber of Melo. And Steve Nash isn't no Chauncey Billups. Billups is a better defender and is equally as clutch if not slightly less compared to Nash. Amare looks rejuvenated out there. And the play of the supporting cast gives a vibe that even if their is the slightest bit of chemistry, the Knicks can compete with the likes of a superpower team. If they are to develop really good chemistry, there is no telling how good a team they can be.

The '05/'06 Nash was back 2 back league MVP, and even if some people argue wether he should have gotten back 2 back, there's no doubt he deserved at least one of them. Billups is a guy I respect a lot, and should get his due, but he's never been superstar-caliber like that.

As I stated earlier in this thread, this Knicks team will go as far as Billups will take them. He will be the coach on the floor and any Denverfan around here will tell you how well he fits that role.

[Kyle Orton]

Outside of his two years w/ Larry Brown as coach, Billups has done absolutely nothing to earn this "good decision maker" label he has. Larry Brown was a coach who micro-managed the offense and coaches his PGs to the point where they do exactly what he wants on every possession. Once Flip Saunders took over as coach and Billups had freedom to run the offense and make decisions on his own, he couldn't get his team any further than Melo or Amare could.

[ElNono]

DoK, I don't disagree that Larry Brown made Billups the player he is nowadays (he was an underachiever up to that point). But Billups did help Flip's Pistons to reach the ECF multiple times, and when he was traded to Denver, he helped that team reach the WCF for the first time in the Melo tenure over there. And the constant is Chauncey.

I don't think he alone is enough to take you over the top (Larry Brown's defensive discipline is what did it for Detroit), but he definitely brings a plus.

[Kyle Orton]

They reached the conference finals, just like Amare and Melo did. That's my point. If you wanna call Melo and Amare bad decision makers fine, but as far as I'm concerned post-2005 Billups has decision making issues. I've seen countless re ed shots from him during the 4th quarter of playoff games with 18 seconds left on the shot clock.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Billups is not the quickest guy and Fish was a good defender when he could move his feet. We're talking 2 seasons ago.

LOL @ Fisher being a good defender two years ago. Just LOL

[Kyle Orton]

I was hoping a Lakers fan would catch that.

[ElNono]

They reached the conference finals, just like Amare and Melo did. That's my point. If you wanna call Melo and Amare bad decision makers fine, but as far as I'm concerned post-2005 Billups has decision making issues. I've seen countless re ed shots from him during the 4th quarter of playoff games with 18 seconds left on the shot clock.

I think the ECF is their ceiling with Billups, barring injuries to Boston or Miami.
Without Billups I don't see them getting out of the first/second round, tbh.

[ElNono]

LOL @ Fisher being a good defender two years ago. Just LOL

Good enough to be league leader in offensive fouls committed against back then... you don't have to believe me, go look it up (Varejao was #2).

Again, we're talking about defending Billups two seasons ago, not quick point guards.

[picc84]

Good, but until they commit to defending and rebounding for more than a few quarters of a reg season game they wont be winning anything. And good luck with that having Pringles on the sideline.

[rayjayjohnson]

His top performance in Denver was a quick exit in the WCF... and that's after Billups came around.. otherwise he was a perennial 1st round exit.

so all those years in a row he was in the conference finals was just, what?

[TE]

I think the ECF is their ceiling with Billups, barring injuries to Boston or Miami.
Without Billups I don't see them getting out of the first/second round, tbh.

This is where I agree with you to a point. If melo and amare become motivated to win a championship, and play consistent defense and not make mental lapses individually, there is no telling hor far this team can go. If the cards play out with melo and amare proving to be a great tandem, this team should at least get to the ECF. The play of chauncey though is what will be the x-factor as to how far this team will go.

[TE]

so all those years in a row he was in the conference finals was just, what?

Any poster who underlooks the effect chauncey billups has on a team is purely delusional. The guy just knows how to win and manage a team. The combination of having melo and amare with this type of leadership should at least give some wonder as to how legit these knicks are.

[LnGrrrR]

Good enough to be league leader in offensive fouls committed against back then... you don't have to believe me, go look it up (Varejao was #2).

I think that's more flopping than defending.

[ElNono]

so all those years in a row he was in the conference finals was just, what?

What "years in a row" Melo was in the conference finals?