What happens if Kobe never makes it to LA?

[midnightpulp]

Lol midnight thinking I'm a kobe fan boy

Maybe you're just trolling GNSF, but judging by your posts on here, I have no reason to believe otherwise.

[Zelophehad]

And I don't know why Lakers fans have such a problem admitting that Kobe has played alongside more talent than any other superstar in the post-Jordan era. It's a testament to their organization that they were able to do such. Many franchises waste their superstar's prime years by pinching pennies and making idiotic personnel decisions, e.g. The Minnesota Timberwolves, so this is something Lakers fans should celebrate, not scoff.

Kobe is indeed overrated, but the Lakers organization isn't, and the latter is all that should matter. Unless of course you're a history2b or TheMachine who roots for the back of the jersey and not the front.

People really forget the chaos that was that Lakers team until Jackson arrived. West was acquiring talent but they had no idea how to coach or discipline it.

[Beau]

Beau knows quality posts.

midnight with some quality posts.

[midnightpulp]

People really forget the chaos that was that Lakers team until Jackson arrived. West was acquiring talent but they had no idea how to coach or discipline it.

See my avatar

But given the Lakers' history, Buss's commitment to winning, and the recent acquisition of Shaquille O'Neal, you knew it was just a matter of time before they broke through and won a le.

[Beau]

People really forget the chaos that was that Lakers team until Jackson arrived. West was acquiring talent but they had no idea how to coach or discipline it.

About 99% of the League would kill for the Lakers problems. They had a hiccup. But they still had the talent, means and franchise stability to know it was only a hiccup.

Their problems, when considering what generally happens to teams after their championship warhorses have left the stage, weren't ...

[Giuseppe]

.

Hey, Midge, I'm jell. Kor I. spanked you. How'd that feel? I want her to spank me.

[Giuseppe]

But given the Lakers' history, Buss's commitment to winning

Kobe had to remind him in at the point of his Italian loafers in '07.

[Beau]

Kobe had to remind him in at the point of his Italian loafers in '07.

Nice we you need only remind, not change a mind or MO.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe talked the talk during the Daddy years and then made good on that talk after Daddy was rinsed. Just because MSM doesn't cite his accomplishments don't mean they didn't take place. Bryant ran Daddy off. It proved genius. Bryant forgave Jackson his trespasses. It proved genius. Bryant extorted Buss into getting off his Lazy Boy and acting like somebody. It proved genius. Bryant learned his lessons and when he couldn't get it off (late Game 7) he gave it away. It proved genius.

[TheGreatest23]

Shaq wins 6 straight

that would suck for the Spurs.

[BlackSwordsMan]

only the spurs?

[TheGreatest23]

only the spurs?

6 straight championships for daddy means a majority of the spurs les would be gone. Am i not correct?

[Beau]

Kobe talked the talk during the Daddy years and then made good on that talk after Daddy was rinsed. Just because MSM doesn't cite his accomplishments don't mean they didn't take place. Bryant ran Daddy off. It proved genius. Bryant forgave Jackson his trespasses. It proved genius. Bryant extorted Buss into getting off his Lazy Boy and acting like somebody. It proved genius. Bryant learned his lessons and when he couldn't get it off (late Game 7) he gave it away. It proved genius.

His genius would have been wasted just about anywhere other than LA, iow...

[Giuseppe]

His genius would have been wasted just about anywhere other than LA, iow...

I never think about that, Beau. He was so right about Daddy. Phil returning with Bryant still there confirms Kobe's far reaching wisdom in that matter.

He was languishing, wasting his prime's prime while Buss was asleep at the wheel. Did Bryant just accept it because the Lakers had sided him during Colorado? No, what he did by going after Buss saved our franchise and finished the bridge that Kobe had started by making Daddy leave.

[ambchang]

Probably the Karl Malone of SG. One of the all-time greats, no championships (providing he is stupid enough to stay with the Hornets during FA), and would be more known for his sex scandals than for his on-court performance.

On the other hand, LA would not have a 3-peat, definitely win 01, likely 00, but probably not going to win 03.

[JamStone]

First of all, I find it hard to believe that Kobe would have spent his entire career with the Hornets because his ego wouldn't let him not win. So he'd whine his way out of there or in this day and age of NBA free agency, he would have left for a team like the Lakers anyway. But I'll go ahead and go with the presumption that he stays with the Hornets. He's no Jordan and there hasn't been a perimeter player since Jordan with the innate and intangible ability in the past 12 or so years since Jordan to be capable of being the foundation of a championship team. I'd say only LeBron comes close, and he obviously couldn't either. Especially in an era where Shaq and Duncan dominated the league in terms of championships. Is it possible for Kobe to have eeked out maybe one championship in that time, like the Pistons did in 2004? I guess possible if everything was just perfect and had just the right pieces around him and got extremely lucky. But it's very unlikely.

I will say this though. If he started his career with the Hornets and stayed there for his entire career, assuming the same amount of games as he has played, he'd probably be right around 30,000 career points at this point. And with much fewer playoff games, he'd probably have a much more legitimate shot at becoming the NBA career points leader by the end of his career than he is now.

He wouldn't have the pomp and cir stance and hype he has as a Laker. He wouldn't be revered without the championship success. He'd be like a Dominique Wilkins or a healthy T-Mac with much more longevity and durability. But he would have a very real and sincere shot at surpassing Kareem's career point total, especially if he had a couple more of those 30-35 PPG seasons instead of just two.

But if he stayed with the Hornets his entire career, I think he'd be viewed much like Dominique with a little more cache because of what his career scoring numbers would be like, and I think he might have a couple of strong post seasons when the Hornets were still in the Eastern Conference, so perhaps being able to get to the ECF once or twice and if lucky maybe a Finals appearance or two, for instance, in the 2002, 2003 seasons when the New Jersey Nets made it.

[TheMACHINE]

lol spurs fans day dreaming "what if"

[Beau]

I never think about that, Beau. He was so right about Daddy. Phil returning with Bryant still there confirms Kobe's far reaching wisdom in that matter.

He was languishing, wasting his prime's prime while Buss was asleep at the wheel. Did Bryant just accept it because the Lakers had sided him during Colorado? No, what he did by going after Buss saved our franchise and finished the bridge that Kobe had started by making Daddy leave.

In hindsight and with the benefit of some good fortune, Kobe's decisions/transgressions/sins have all seemingly been rewarded or proven to be beneficial in the end. Shaq was a slug, he wouldn't have become the professionally-driven athlete the Lakers needed him to be to lead the franchise, which would have led to them likely paying dearly on the back end.

No doubt Kobe's led a charmed/soul-selling kind of life NBA life. And if it's the latter, I commend his commitment to winning.

[Kyle Orton]

I used to think quitting/calling out your front office/threatening to leave in free agency or demand a trade was never right, but then I realized how the Suns' 2010 season only happened because Nash decided to raise and light a fire under Kerr and Sarver's asses in 2009 to actually have an off season plan.

Nash going back to playing his hardest every night and never voicing any displeasure, even after he drops 30 and 11 in a loss, is the reason why Sarver decided to let Amare leave for nothing and knowingly turn the Suns into a ty .500 team. If Nash did what Kobe did and told Sarver he'd demand a trade if Amare wasn't resigned, maybe he takes a beating for it in the media, but I bet Amare is still wearing a Suns uniform.

Would the Lakers have turned it around after 2005-2007 if Kobe didn't start making noise? Who knows, but it sure as didn't seem like Buss was in any kind of a rush to make a Gasol like trade before Kobe said something.

[Beau]

First of all, I find it hard to believe that Kobe would have spent his entire career with the Hornets because his ego wouldn't let him not win. So he'd whine his way out of there or in this day and age of NBA free agency, he would have left for a team like the Lakers anyway. But I'll go ahead and go with the presumption that he stays with the Hornets. He's no Jordan and there hasn't been a perimeter player since Jordan with the innate and intangible ability in the past 12 or so years since Jordan to be capable of being the foundation of a championship team. I'd say only LeBron comes close, and he obviously couldn't either. Especially in an era where Shaq and Duncan dominated the league in terms of championships. Is it possible for Kobe to have eeked out maybe one championship in that time, like the Pistons did in 2004? I guess possible if everything was just perfect and had just the right pieces around him and got extremely lucky. But it's very unlikely.

I will say this though. If he started his career with the Hornets and stayed there for his entire career, assuming the same amount of games as he has played, he'd probably be right around 30,000 career points at this point. And with much fewer playoff games, he'd probably have a much more legitimate shot at becoming the NBA career points leader by the end of his career than he is now.

He wouldn't have the pomp and cir stance and hype he has as a Laker. He wouldn't be revered without the championship success. He'd be like a Dominique Wilkins or a healthy T-Mac with much more longevity and durability. But he would have a very real and sincere shot at surpassing Kareem's career point total, especially if he had a couple more of those 30-35 PPG seasons instead of just two.

But if he stayed with the Hornets his entire career, I think he'd be viewed much like Dominique with a little more cache because of what his career scoring numbers would be like, and I think he might have a couple of strong post seasons when the Hornets were still in the Eastern Conference, so perhaps being able to get to the ECF once or twice and if lucky maybe a Finals appearance or two, for instance, in the 2002, 2003 seasons when the New Jersey Nets made it.

Solid.

Actually think a Dominique-type legacy is probably the most apt. Kobe's the better player but not so much so that it would change the legacy to any great degree. Better degree, probably. But not a great degree.

Also agree that'd he'd likely be chasing the scoring le, health willing. Possible that he finds himself getting run into the ground on a team he tries to carry from Day 1 entering the league, though.

But if he had the same health trajectory, coming out of high school, playing the position and having the skillset he did... he would have definitely been staring Kareem sooner or later. And like you said, the pomp and cir stance would have been lacking. Seriously lacking, imo - think about how hard it's been for Kobe's personality to take traction when given the outlet and favor he's been given with the Lakers... No way does that play as well in Charlotte or any other similar franchise that he may have went to when given the option.

[midnightpulp]

I never think about that, Beau. He was so right about Daddy. Phil returning with Bryant still there confirms Kobe's far reaching wisdom in that matter.

He was languishing, wasting his prime's prime while Buss was asleep at the wheel. Did Bryant just accept it because the Lakers had sided him during Colorado? No, what he did by going after Buss saved our franchise and finished the bridge that Kobe had started by making Daddy leave.

If there were ever a perfect example of hindsight bias, this is it.

[Beau]

I used to think quitting/calling out your front office/threatening to leave in free agency or demand a trade was never right, but then I realized how the Suns' 2010 season only happened because Nash decided to raise and light a fire under Kerr and Sarver's asses in 2009 to actually have an off season plan.

Nash going back to playing his hardest every night and never voicing any displeasure, even after he drops 30 and 11 in a loss, is the reason why Sarver decided to let Amare leave for nothing and knowingly turn the Suns into a ty .500 team. If Nash did what Kobe did and told Sarver he'd demand a trade if Amare wasn't resigned, maybe he takes a beating for it in the media, but I bet Amare is still wearing a Suns uniform.

Would the Lakers have turned it around after 2005-2007 if Kobe didn't start making noise? Who knows, but it sure as didn't seem like Buss was in any kind of a rush to make a Gasol like trade before Kobe said something.

Love it or hate it, love Kobe or hate em... results are results. And as a fan, it's almost solely about results.

We've got our Catholic priests and public officials to be our moral guides...

[TheGreatest23]

Duncan should have man'd up after 2008 and lit a fire under FO.

[Koolaid_Man]

Say he actually does end up in Charlotte, stays there for his entire career or only moves onto another team that's of comparable stature, market, means, etc. Does he ever become 'Kobe Bryant'?

He was an immature high-school kid coming out. Even in the structured, professional and winning environment of the Lakers organization his personality threatened to prevent the team from meeting its potential - can't imagine how all of his antics and immaturity would have played out on a young team he was charged with leading... how that would mold both he and his image moving forward in the league.

Let's face it, Kobe's been coddled with more talent and means than any star of his generation - the Lakers are spending $21M more than the Spurs this year, for example, and we all know what the Lakers prestige and location has done for them when it comes to acquiring talent.

We all saw what happened when Shaq left. We all saw how it took him being humbled a bit by the losing from 2005-07 to accept and embrace the help of another All-NBA player in Gasol to get him back to the top.

Basically, it's hard not to imagine Kobe becoming an All-World talent on a bad team. Almost a Mitch Richmond of sorts, only more talented and more of a malcontent.

Food for thought...

same thing that woulda happened had you never been born....Just Like Len Bias' coke binge....Lakers still win

[midnightpulp]

same thing that woulda happened had you never been born....Just Like Len Bias' coke binge....Lakers still win

And AIDS is still a sexual