Pucker factor 10!! Saudi police open fire at protest

[CosmicCowboy]

and you think this is really a possibility?

That reminds me of something you said to me once... what was it... oh yes. "Dumb "

What do you think China's reaction to that would be?
or for that matter the rest of the world?

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb . I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

[RandomGuy]

A bunch of ships, millions to billions through embargoes or sanctions of one kind or another. Internal stability. You know, little things like that.

The Chinese, a permanent member of the UN Security Council by the way, have expressed some very uncharactoristic misgivings about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Chinese willingness to put up with Iran's bull , especially given their own distrust/problems with muslim uprisings, goes only so far as Iran can supply them oil/gas. Threaten that, and China's interests very instantly align with that of the US, and the rest of the developed world.

Such a move would be considered tantamount to a declaration of war, and would entail a very sharp, to put it mildly, response.

Given that Iran's government absolutely depends on its ability to buy off its poorest through giveaways financed by oil revenues, such a shutdown would cut their own throats, even aside from the firestorm it would create.

[RandomGuy]

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb . I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

1) Iranians are not Arabs.

2) Iranians are not sunni.

Both of those factors cause Arabs and sunni's to view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

The only way you can present that as feasible or remotely possible, is because you are really, truly, ignorant of how people in that area of the world really think.

It is a possibility in the same sense it is possible that I will win the lottery.

[CosmicCowboy]

The Chinese, a permanent member of the UN Security Council by the way, have expressed some very uncharactoristic misgivings about Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Chinese willingness to put up with Iran's bull , especially given their own distrust/problems with muslim uprisings, goes only so far as Iran can supply them oil/gas. Threaten that, and China's interests very instantly align with that of the US, and the rest of the developed world.

Such a move would be considered tantamount to a declaration of war, and would entail a very sharp, to put it mildly, response.

Given that Iran's government absolutely depends on its ability to buy off its poorest through giveaways financed by oil revenues, such a shutdown would cut their own throats, even aside from the firestorm it would create.

You honestly don't think that the Pentagon and NSA are game planning the very scenario I suggested right now? This flood of popular uprisings in north Africa is a huge game changer.

[MannyIsGod]

The Pentagon plans for scenarios that are less likely than you getting a blow job from Jessica Alba.

[RandomGuy]

You honestly don't think that the Pentagon and NSA are game planning the very scenario I suggested right now? This flood of popular uprisings in north Africa is a huge game changer.

I do think that they are doing precisely that. It is their job to consider contingencies, no matter how remote.

That doesn't make those contingencies any more probable/possible than they were before.

I would note that those planners also have plans for what happens when the worst of global warming comes to pass. Yeah, I went there. If you want to make this argument, then you are, in essence buying into AGW.

Is that what you are saying?

[CosmicCowboy]

1) Iranians are not Arabs.

2) Iranians are not sunni.

Both of those factors cause Arabs and sunni's to view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

The only way you can present that as feasible or remotely possible, is because you are really, truly, ignorant of how people in that area of the world really think.

It is a possibility in the same sense it is possible that I will win the lottery.

And you realize that 30% of the Saudis are Shiites? Mostly in the east, where most of the OIL is? The extremism of the shiites seems to have jumped many cultural and geographic boundaries. The fact that the Iranians are persian and not Arab may not be as big an obstacle as you think.

[RandomGuy]

And you realize that 30% of the Saudis are Shiites? Mostly in the east, where most of the OIL is? The extremism of the shiites seems to have jumped many cultural and geographic boundaries. The fact that the Iranians are persian and not Arab may not be as big an obstacle as you think.

Yes, I am cognizant of both facts.

Americans in general tend to underestimate the overall level of xenophobia in the rest of the world.

I don't think "the extremism of the shiites" has jumped any boundaries.

Iran has helped certain Shia groups to be sure, but shia have been no more or less extremist than any other devotely religious group in the developing world.

[DarrinS]

Time to grab your ankles, folks. I hope Obama can act presidential over this within the week. That is if he has no parties planned for today.

With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...o-accept-.html

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, I am cognizant of both facts.

Americans in general tend to underestimate the overall level of xenophobia in the rest of the world.

I don't think "the extremism of the shiites" has jumped any boundaries.

Iran has helped certain Shia groups to be sure, but shia have been no more or less extremist than any other devotely religious group in the developing world.

You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...

[CosmicCowboy]

With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...o-accept-.html

He would make a really great first lady.

[RandomGuy]

You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...

Arabs and sunni's ... view Iran with a huge amount of distrust, especially given its rather grandiose stated ambitions.

Reading fail.

Care to try that again?

[DMX7]

This country is a goddamn slave to oil. It is absolutely ing pathetic.

[RandomGuy]

Anyone that doesn't consider it as a possibility is a dumb . I'm not saying it's the probable outcome but Iran is just crazy enough to play a wild card role here. All of North Africa is currently in play and they have made no secret of their long term goal of one big secular state. They would be the hero of the downtrodden masses all across north africa and the middle east if they forced the Saudi King to blink.

You aren't talking about "the protestors" here.

You are talking about what Iran would do.

My response was that Iran would not be quite so admired if that were to happen, for the reason that Iran is viewed with no small amount of distrust.

You lost track of your thought, and then melded this exchange with something to do with the protestors. Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

[RandomGuy]

This country is a goddamn slave to oil. It is absolutely ing pathetic.

We dug deep and put men on the moon consitantly in 10 years.

If we expended just 1/2 the energy/talent/capital on a project to spur renewable energy in 10 years, we could do it.

Slaves to oil is not altogether inaccurate, IMO.

[CosmicCowboy]

Putting men on the moon was simply applying math, physics, an engineering with a load of money.

Now, it's the same guys that understand math, physics, and engineering that are telling you lib s that affordable green renewable energy isn't as easy as you think and you just don't want to hear it...

Throwing money at it like we did on the Apollo project isn't the answer.

[boutons_deux]

"isn't the answer."

and your answer is?

[ChumpDumper]

With all that's going on in the world, team Obama is focused on the important issues, such as

Obama Convenes Bullying Conference, “It’s Not Something We Have To Accept”

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...o-accept-.html

Tell us what he is supposed to be doing about Saudi Arabia right now, bag.

You are hilarious. You make the flat statement that the protesters wouldn't trust the Iranians because "Iranians aren't Arabs and aren't Sunnis" and I point out that the people that are protesting are Shia which are 30% of the population, you come right back with "Oh, I knew that"...

Where are you getting this 30% number.

A Pew report from a couple of years ago says 10-15%.

http://pewforum.org/newassets/images...population.pdf

[CosmicCowboy]

Tell us what he is supposed to be doing about Saudi Arabia right now, bag.

Where are you getting this 30% number.

A Pew report from a couple of years ago says 10-15%.

http://pewforum.org/newassets/images...population.pdf

I have read that same percentage several times recently in reputable news reports. I admit I didn't actually count them myself.

[ChumpDumper]

Guess I'll look more.

[CosmicCowboy]

"isn't the answer."

and your answer is?

Simple. Renewable energy is a LOCAL solution. It's not a global power grid solution. It starts with intelligent building design using natural ventilation for cooling and reduced expectations. The temperature won't always be a constant 72 degrees. Passive solar design for heat, active solar for basic electricity needs. Portable energy for transportation will be the real .

[ChumpDumper]

Saudi Arabia’s own Shias, who account for an estimated 10 per cent of the population

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/17c7e73a-4...#ixzz1GF9RF7mg

Shias, who are mainly concentrated in the eastern of the country, make up about 10% of the Saudi population.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12663240

[4>0rings]

Opened fire on protesters.....



































using non-lethal means

[Wild Cobra]

I agree with Chump. We can't do .

We shouldn't get involved with this.

We shouldn't support these governments because they are governments of little humane respect. However, I believe the protesters are worse, or should I specify the ones who would come into power. We don't need another late 70's Iran and Iraq. They want to bring sharia law to these countries that don't have it. The protesters don't have the man power to overthrow the governments. We shouldn't help either side. We should just sit back an watch, unless something obviously becomes detrimental to our interests... other than oil. In the end, the winning side will still be selling oil.

[boutons_deux]

what's your solution a renewable replacement for the 70% of oil used for transport fuel.

Very little oil is now used for heating and cooling building. So fantastic improvement in buildings' efficiency won't make a dent in imported oil.