Bonner apologists, please explain

[The Truth #6]

I just watched the Dallas and Charlotte game on tivo. Bonner rebounded well but passed up shots he should have taken versus Dallas. When the pressure was off he looked better versus Charlotte. This should be surprising to no one.

He's already shrinking out there when it matters. He's there to take and make shots. Hopefully Pop has him on a short leash. I'd rather go with Blair. Without enough evidence to support anything, I already trust Novak more than Bonner to take an important shot.

[objective]

There is zero evidence that Bonner could

A. Make 3 pointers at a good clip in the playoffs

or

B. Make 3 pointers so much that it opens the floor because guys have to stay with him

Bonner has been pure garbage in the playoffs. And not just defensively or rebounding, he's been an abject failure at the one thing he's put on the court to do.

Phil Jackson won't have to respect his shot, he's seen Spurs teams miss shots before, and Bonner in the playoffs does it better than anyone. In the meantime, teams will go right at him on the defensive end.

Bonner made Channing Frye a double-Bonner contract. That's how terrible Bonner has performed. , two years ago he was SO terrible that just about the only shots he made in that series against Dallas was after Tony Parker single-handedly willed the Spurs to a double digit lead in their only win.

Why anyone would expect any differently based on past performance is a mystery, other than just plain hope.

Unlike Horry, whom the masses on this board compared Bonner to back in the summer of 07, Bonner can't do anything else to help the Spurs win when his shot isn't falling (which is every postseason). He's not going to play that savvy defense. He isn't going to come up with 5 blocks in a Finals game like Horry, or a game saving chase down block and clutch 3s like against Denver for Horry. He won't deliver the cheap shots and annoyance to get into other players. He won't pull down clutch boards. He won't deliver a driving dunk with an foul like Horry against Detroit.

He won't do anything . . . except get minutes.

[ElNono]

Splitter should be the third big. I'd give Bonner the first chance to be the fourth big because he's theoretically a better fit next to Splitter, he's a more sound defender than Blair, he's more experienced and he's less likely to do something foolish.

If good teams don't respect him (and by respect, I mean his shot; not his overall game) and he makes them pay, they'll have no choice but to respect him or risk him throwing in myriad threes. It isn't as if Blair isn't a great mismatch to exploit on the other end as well.

I'm not saying go with Bonner at all costs. If he struggles, then go to Blair by game 3-4. Realistically, it's going to take all five bigs to win a championship. But this is all moot anyway, because we know Bonner is going to be the third big, Blair the fourth and the only chance that Splitter will have to play other than when the result is decided (barring injury), is if/when the Spurs play the Lakers.

We had somewhat this conversation before the seson started, if you remember. You said Splitter was going to be ready, and I said Bonner was going to be the 2nd/3rd big (We also talked about RJ and I was wrong on that). So it's a lot of deja vu here... In all honesty, betting on Bonner to beat you looks like an incredibly good offer right now, IMO. Hopefully that perception changes on the playoffs.

[TE]

Sometimes the stats lie.

In Bonner's case, anyone who has watched the Spurs in the playoffs the last 3 years will know that Bonner is the greatest liability of the team.



Just an absolutely horrible overall player.

[Sean Cagney]

There is zero evidence that Bonner could

A. Make 3 pointers at a good clip in the playoffs

or

B. Make 3 pointers so much that it opens the floor because guys have to stay with him

Bonner has been pure garbage in the playoffs. And not just defensively or rebounding, he's been an abject failure at the one thing he's put on the court to do.

Phil Jackson won't have to respect his shot, he's seen Spurs teams miss shots before, and Bonner in the playoffs does it better than anyone. In the meantime, teams will go right at him on the defensive end.

Bonner made Channing Frye a double-Bonner contract. That's how terrible Bonner has performed. , two years ago he was SO terrible that just about the only shots he made in that series against Dallas was after Tony Parker single-handedly willed the Spurs to a double digit lead in their only win.

Why anyone would expect any differently based on past performance is a mystery, other than just plain hope.

Unlike Horry, whom the masses on this board compared Bonner to back in the summer of 07, Bonner can't do anything else to help the Spurs win when his shot isn't falling (which is every postseason). He's not going to play that savvy defense. He isn't going to come up with 5 blocks in a Finals game like Horry, or a game saving chase down block and clutch 3s like against Denver for Horry. He won't deliver the cheap shots and annoyance to get into other players. He won't pull down clutch boards. He won't deliver a driving dunk with an foul like Horry against Detroit.

He won't do anything . . . except get minutes.

RIGHT! BONNER IS TRASH and we all know it inside, except for his family and friends, which I swear are in here posting now........ He is not good, period.

[Sean Cagney]

Sometimes the stats lie.

In Bonner's case, anyone who has watched the Spurs in the playoffs the last 3 years will know that Bonner is the greatest liability of the team.



Just an absolutely horrible overall player.

He is garbage, I can't believe some still stick up for him or believe in him at all! THEY must be high as or drunk on a Sunday night to believe he will do any different! HE IS PUSSY.

[Cane]

Imo Bonner's made significant improvements in his game the past two seasons but unfortunately broke his hand last season which doesn't help a shooter and also had that knee injury earlier this season FWIW. Bonner helps space the floor for the team and seems to have only improved his touch and overall confidence the longer he's been on the Spurs. When the 3 is covered, he's become somewhat confident in putting the ball to the floor and making a funky post move or jump hook which he never seemed to do a few seasons ago IIRC.

Gary Neal seems to have developed some game alongside Bonner, they seem to feed eachother good looks. Time will tell if these guys will be real gamers but I like that they've been confident shooting the ball including Steve Novak and RJ. The Spurs system needs floor spacing and good shooting which past roleplayers like Udoka, Mason Jr., Bogans, RJ last season, etc. failed to provide.

However he's still a roleplayer. The Spurs have enough forwards where they can adjust but they're all undersized against the defending champions length, talent and overall size.

[Sean Cagney]

Imo Bonner's made significant improvements in his game the past two seasons but unfortunately broke his hand last season which doesn't help a shooter and also had that knee injury earlier this season FWIW. Bonner helps space the floor for the team and seems to have only improved his touch and overall confidence the longer he's been on the Spurs. When the 3 is covered, he's become somewhat confident in putting the ball to the floor and making a funky post move or jump hook which he never seemed to do a few seasons ago IIRC.

Gary Neal seems to have developed some game alongside Bonner, they seem to feed eachother good looks. Time will tell if these guys will be real gamers but I like that they've been confident shooting the ball including Steve Novak and RJ. The Spurs system needs floor spacing and good shooting which past roleplayers like Udoka, Mason Jr., Bogans, RJ last season, etc. failed to provide.

However he's still a roleplayer. The Spurs have enough forwards where they can adjust but they're all undersized against the defending champions length, talent and overall size.

If they are up against us they get ate like grapefruit! PERIOD! NO MATTER WHO IT IS!!!!!!!!!

[tuncaboylu]

People are overreacting on Bonner. We all know that he's a player with limited talent. Below-average rebounding, below-average defense, below-average dribble, very good three pointer in regular season. That's what Bonner is. If he won2t choke this year's play-offs, we will use him 15 minutes per game to score 2 or 3 three pointers and create space for our penetrating guards and Duncan. That's it.

Horry had the similar role in spurs, Below-average rabounding, average defense, average dribble, very-good three pointer in clutch time. If Bonner can score his threes in play-off and clutch time; he would help. If he can't, Novak is his insurance policy.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is an excellent defender, rebounder and ball-handler for a role-playing three point shooter, and his basketball IQ is very high. The question becomes one of strategery. In short, the coach needs to understand what he is, but more importantly, what he is not and set matchups accordingly. Derrick Rose is the likely league MVP this year but only an idiot would make him their first power forward / center off the bench.

[ohmwrecker]

I noticed something the other day: Matt Bonner's 3pt% in last year's playoffs was just slightly under his regular season % (even with the hand injury).
If he shoots slightly under 50% in this year's playoffs, you can't complain . . .
Everybody knows that Bonner is slow and a bad defender/rebounder at his position. I'm pretty sure Pop knows it too. He is, obviously, going to be part of the rotation, so the philosophy is his importance as a stretch 4 is more valuable to Pop than his liabilities as a post player.
You don't have to like it, but it is what it is and Pop is not changing his mind (Novak's signing makes it obvious that Pop values that specific skill set).

[Obstructed_View]

Didn't Bonner have a hot streak in garbage time to bring up his percentage for the playoffs? I could have sworn someone pointed that out, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

[ohmwrecker]

It's possible . . . but I would be more concerned about the mere existence of "garbage time" in the playoffs. If the Spurs are giving guys garbage minutes, they are probably getting blown out.

IIRC, Bonner shot under 40% from 3 last season . . . regular and playoffs.

[ElNono]

Didn't Bonner have a hot streak in garbage time to bring up his percentage for the playoffs? I could have sworn someone pointed that out, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

He was garbage in the Mavs series, and started 0-4 in the first 2 games against the Suns (0-1 in the first game, 0-3 in the 2nd game). He shot well in the last two games (3-4 in the 3rd game in 20 mins of action, 2-3 in the 4th game in 30(!) minutes on the floor). He was used way too much on those games though, for the amount of shots he took, IMO. I won't touch rebounding in those games since it's both embarrassing and we're not really addressing that here.

[peacemaker885]

So much ado with Matty. All I know is that we are a better team with him than without.

[ElNono]

And by garbage I mean 5-16 shooting... which is 31% and his average percentage in the playoffs (so far).

[Phenomanul]

I'll also place this here....

In the 2007 and 2008 post seasons Bonner didn't play much... 34 total minutes (4/10 from the field)...

In the 2009 Playoffs the Spurs lost to Dallas (4-1) but weren't really going anywhere that year with Mason running back up PG duties, and because a guy by the name of Ginobili was sitting behind the bench in street clothes...

Sure, Matt Bonner sucked in that series averaging 19.9 MPG and a dismal 21% from the field... but may I remind everyone here that all the Spurs not named Duncan or Parker sucked in that 1st round series against the Mavs namely because our second unit was being manhandled... 'cause again, Mason was at the helm, and becuase the Mavs could easily focus on our lone playmaker in Parker... and because IIRC Pop mysteriously decided not to give Hill enough burn... the dynamic when having both Parker and Ginobili on the floor compared to when one of them is missing or not fully healthy is VAST (look at the Spurs' winning percentage when both of them play). Hence, anyone who takes that sample slice to represent Matt in the playoffs is being purposely disingenous with their criticism...

In the 2010 Playoffs the Spurs avenged their 2009 Playoff loss to Dallas by beating them 4-2, and then were swept by Phoenix.... Matt was so-so against Dallas (shooting 34%) and played so-so defense against Dirk. That said, he shot "lights out" against the Suns (shooting 55.6% from the field and 45% from 3pt range). He showed up... and had little to do with Nash going bonkers in Game 1 (mostly against Hill), or with Dragic going crazy in San Antonio... If anything his defense against Frye was subpar... but other than that, Matt played his role well...

This year is when the verdict on Matt will be issued... as long as the big three are healthy, and Jefferson holds his own Matt should play well enough for the team to succeed... he will no longer be singled out as the lone marksman on the team (reason for playoff slump against Dallas in 2009)... Jefferson's newfound efficiency from beyond the arc, Neal (let me repeat that...) Neal's fearlessness (and his welcomed playmaking ability), along with Ginobili's clutchness (despite his current shooting slump) should provide Matt with ample space to knock down his shots... if only Hill would snap out of his 3pt shooting funk... On the other end, Matt's defense will never be anywhere near elite... but he usually plays with the right intensity and with his head in the game... besides, given the current trend it seems McDyess' usage rate will increase during the playoffs which should help the Spurs' efficiency at defending the lane... That being the case, Matt's grade will be based on whether or not he can deliver from beyond the arc... If last year's playoff Bonner shows up, and given the VAST improvements around him there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to contribute.

In no more than ~ 16 MPG

[Mugen]

Bonner's not the problem, it's the guy overplaying him and not using him like the situational scrub he is....

[ElNono]

In the 2010 Playoffs the Spurs avenged their 2009 Playoff loss to Dallas by beating them 4-2, and then were swept by Phoenix.... Matt was so-so against Dallas (shooting 34%) and played so-so defense against Dirk. That said, he shot "lights out" against the Suns (shooting 55.6% from the field and 45% from 3pt range). He showed up... and had little to do with Nash going bonkers in Game 1 (mostly against Hill), or with Dragic going crazy in San Antonio... If anything his defense against Frye was subpar... but other than that, Matt played his role well...

Pheno, don't take this personally, but...

He shot 5-16 from 3 point land against Dallas (31%):
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010...purs-mavericks

He was MIA going 0-4 from downtown in the Suns series in 2 out of the 4 games... that's what you call showing up and shooting "lights out"?

When he finally shoots well, he only takes 3 or 4 shots a game at a rate of 1 shot every 8 or so minutes...

Some people need to go back and look at the games again...

[ElNono]

I mostly agree that testing the waters for a few minutes per game and see what's his pulse is not a problem... but usages of 20, even 30 minutes I think are unwarranted unless he's shooting lights out AND in some sort of volume...

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think anybody would agree that Bonner should play 30 minutes..

[ElNono]

I don't think anybody would agree that Bonner should play 30 minutes..

Well, Pop thought so last year in an elimination game... I hope he revisits that decision just how we revisited Hill's benching a season before that...

That game should be obligatory watching before these playoffs start. Just seeing guys like Dudley abusing him and outhustling him and RJ should be locker room material.

[Phenomanul]

Pheno, don't take this personally, but...

He shot 5-16 from 3 point land against Dallas (31%):
http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010...purs-mavericks

He was MIA going 0-4 from downtown in the Suns series in 2 out of the 4 games... that's what you call showing up and shooting "lights out"?

When he finally shoots well, he only takes 3 or 4 shots a game at a rate of 1 shot every 8 or so minutes...

Some people need to go back and look at the games again...

From the field... 9/26 = 34%

I guess what I'm trying to focus on is that with the improvements around him, and with Bonner being the team's 8th best player (at best); he should be able to contribute (as long as POP doesn't overplay him).

People often use Matt's 2009 playoff performance as the all-out defining-card of Matt's playoff capability... but like I said, that series should standout more as the fluke than as the standard... that Spurs' team flat out sucked once Ginobili was out of the picture... We had ZERO chances that year under that cir stance... and last I checked, Matt's points come off of other's playmaking...

Like I said, this year as long as the big three stay healthy, Matt will have the ultimate opportunity to prove as much (and silence if he can his many naysayers)... for the Spurs' sake (let's hope he delivers)...

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not worried about Bonner's offense in the playoffs AT ALL. Not even a little bit. There are several guys who can shoot threes. What worries me is Bonner's minutes, and that he will likely get a lot of them regardless of his field goal percentage.

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner is an excellent defender, rebounder and ball-handler for a role-playing three point shooter,.

I'm not worried about Bonner's offense in the playoffs AT ALL. Not even a little bit. There are several guys who can shoot threes. What worries me is Bonner's minutes, and that he will likely get a lot of them regardless of his field goal percentage.

This is true.