Please, please DPG laugh me off this thread with your infinite basketball wisdom and superior intellect. While you prepare another well thought out pithy comeback, allow me to retort.
1. First of all I have mad respect for Lebron james. IF He gets the MVP I have no quibble with it most dominant force in the game (although Dwight is making a strong push as the most dominant too) and i hope he fulfills he destiny (not this season) as the GOAT but IF rose gets it I believe he and Dwight have the best opposing argument.
2. I STILL stand by that to use the "Look at the Cavs record THIS YEAR" ... is asinine. One of the key lineups (and arguably best) for the Cavs last year was: C Shaq or Z PF Verejao SF James SG West PG Mo williams. ALL of those guys are gone. Heck even Leon Powe is not on the team or Danny green. Out of the ones that were still on the roster pre-season, and post-trade, (Mo gibson, Jamison, Hickson) Only Jamison and Hickson had played 41 or more games at the all-star break for the Cavs ...THIS year. Even if you dismiss West who was dealing with issues and didnt play a lot. What team could lose that many players and maintain a high level of play? One could argue now they have Jamison for a full season. But no way he and Sessions can make up for ALL of that. Plus they had Jamison PLUS all the departing players and a healthy Verejao and mo williams PLUS LEBRON ...No way Lebron (as great as he is) carries THIS ty cast to a top3 record in the EAST. This is not the same team from the past two seasons. Now if you want to compare it to the team Lebron put on his back and carried to the Finals vs. the spurs ... I'd disagree but I would be more willing to buy THAT argument.
Just to let you know dude that Shaq was anon factor for the Cavs on most occassions last year, same with Delonte West. You could make a case for Varejao and MO Williams, but the Cavs still had a losing record even before Varejao went down.
I'm not going to go into other details but Lebron is worthat least 30 if not 40 wins to those Cavaliers/ The whole team was built around him, so naturally when he was traded all the pieces started collapsing. Also, the morale is pretty low and I think most players in that roster are all playing for a paycheck.
+1 Bulls are winning with their defense, which he's not really a part of. Still a top ten player though.
Winner. Like I said, the Bulls success has Thibs blueprint written all over it. If people don't want to give this to Lebron, at least give Wade his lifetime/Kobe MVP acheivement award. Or just give it to Dwight.
1. Is Stan Van Gundy correct? Have we already anointed D-Rose as MVP?
Henry Abbott, TrueHoop: Anyone with a pulse would be very happy for Derrick Rose, and maybe he should win it if nothing else as a thank-you for the thrills, the work and the wins. But LeBron James is a better player, playing just as he did when he ran away with this award the past two seasons. Beyond bitterness, is there a reason to disqualify him so early?
J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: Yes, Stan Van Gundy is correct. The media have decided Rose is the MVP, and the media hate changing the story once it's written. But the media are correct, too. Rose and the Bulls are having a better season than Dwight Howard and the Magic.
Kevin Arnovitz: Heat Index: The media and fans like novelty because it keeps the narrative interesting. That means that whenever there's a legitimate candidate for MVP who hasn't previously been in the conversation, we tend to gravitate toward him. And when that candidate's team loses only three times in six weeks, the momentum builds. This is true in basketball or baseball.
Chris Sheridan, ESPN New York: I am with Van Gundy on this one, and he is on point: I am as guilty as anyone of anointing Rose the MVP prematurely, but I am on solid ground in doing so.
Look where the Bulls are. Then ask why they are there. This guy has been the consummate leader for them, and the leap he has made in his outside shooting has been astounding.
Marc Stein, ESPN.com: I would appear to be guilty. The Bulls would have to hit a serious skid here in their last 12 games to convince me otherwise.
Howard has played at a higher level of statistical efficiency and has kept Orlando in the top five defensively all season, even though he's surrounded by bad defenders. But the combination of the on-the-court load that Rose shoulders along with the galvanizing effect he's had as a leader for a team that's exceeded all expectations with Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah combining to miss 54 games … yup. Guilty.
Just to let you know dude that Shaq was anon factor for the Cavs on most occassions last year, same with Delonte West. You could make a case for Varejao and MO Williams, but the Cavs still had a losing record even before Varejao went down.
I'm not going to go into other details but Lebron is worthat least 30 if not 40 wins to those Cavaliers/ The whole team was built around him, so naturally when he was traded all the pieces started collapsing. Also, the morale is pretty low and I think most players in that roster are all playing for a paycheck.
I agree shaq didnt do all THAT much and Z was a role player too. But Mo got hurt Verejao played even less. The point is how can you compare two teams when there is THAT much roster turnover? And maybe you are right maybe Lebron was worth 30 to 40 wins for LAST YEARS team. Again that is why he won the last two MVP awards.
I am still waiting for a reasonable and intelligent poster to explain to me how that is a factor in THIS YEARS MVP race? Just admit that the argument is a knee jerk reaction to the Cavs struggles. Rose should not lose reward on such flawed analysis.
Those that complain about Kobe getting his for lifetime achievement ... should not give Lebron this year's award because the Cavs suck when the team is at least 50% different that is just dumb. if you give it to him (which i dont have an issue with) give it to him for his dominance THIS year. just keep this year's Cavs out of it.
Henry is a moron. Not hating on Lebron because he is deserving but we all know he is a hollingeresque stat boy who won't give Rose his due beacuse he is not efficient enough for his tastes.
Rose sets the tempo and creates momentum changing situations on a consistent basis...Lebron just play really hard, but his success is inconsistent when it matters most. MVP must go to Rose IMHO.
Winner. Like I said, the Bulls success has Thibs blueprint written all over it. If people don't want to give this to Lebron, at least give Wade his lifetime/Kobe MVP acheivement award. Or just give it to Dwight.
I keep seeing this myth that Rose somehow doesn't play defense or doesn't make an impact on that side of the ball. He's just as big a part of that defensive unit as anyone else. It's not like he's constantly beat off the dribble and depending on his bigs to bail him out or anything. He's taken defense very seriously and has bought into Thibs' message. He beats himself up if he gets taken off the dribble on an isolation or misses a rotation. And this pretty much sums up how much he's improved.
What’s so remarkable about Rose isn’t that he improved defensively (incremental gains are pretty much assumed as young players become more comfortable), but that he improved so early and so rapidly. Rose is just 22, and a year removed from being a part-time liability on the defensive end. Not only has he shattered expectations for his defensive improvement this season, but Rose has a legitimate claim as a plus defender while playing at the most difficult position in the league. Gone are the lethargic sequences where Rose dawdled around a screen or launched into the air at the slightest pump fake. Rose has made a legitimately positive defensive impact, and he has the numbers to prove it.
Joakim Noah, thought to be the single key to the Bulls’ defensive success, has played only 24 of 41 games this season, and yet Chicago is still best in the league in points allowed per 100 possessions. Rose doesn’t deserve all of the credit, but the perimeter trio of Rose, Ronnie Brewer, and Luol Deng has made things tough for opposing teams. It’s a matter of necessity; Chicago’s offense isn’t good enough to keep it afloat, and its defense provides the most consistent path toward victory. If Rose were still a defensive sieve, the Bulls would be struggling without Noah. If Rose were merely a moderately successful defender, the Bulls wouldn’t have the top defense and the third seed in the Eastern Conference. It’s taken every bit of Rose’s defensive improvement to keep the Bulls rolling despite significant injuries to both Noah and Carlos Boozer, but he’s quickly taken to Thibodeau’s famed defensive system and delivered in a big way.
More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed) –- all excellent defenders -– have been trumped statistically this year, and by no slim margin. Rose has each of those players handily beat, and boasts a shockingly comprehensive defensive profile.
Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession. Rose’s lateral quickness becomes a huge asset when opponents go one-on-one. In this sequence, watch how Rose goes over the pick with the Sixers’ Jrue Holiday, and yet still stays with him step for step as he drives into the lane:
Admittedly, part of the reason Rose does so well against isolated opponents is his focus. Rose still wanders mentally from time to time, but having an opponent with the ball directly in front of him no doubt creates a sense of importance and urgency. He has no choice but to try to stop him, and this season he’s certainly been more effective.
Strong individual defense, however, involves an understanding of opponent strengths and weaknesses, and a predictive element that enables defenders to beat their opponents to particular spots on the floor. Athleticism aids in those efforts and helps to erase some of Rose’s mistakes, but it’s his more complete understanding of proper defensive technique that has enabled Rose to blanket his counterparts this season. Watch as he defends Indiana’s T.J. Ford:
Rose is clearly playing off of Ford and encouraging him to shoot a jumper, yet he’s quick to shut off Ford’s driving lanes and also to recover when Ford opts for the step-back. Just as importantly, Rose plays with awareness of both Ford’s movements and the ticking shot clock. Even when the 24-second clock nears zero, Rose doesn’t fall for Ford’s pump fakes. He waits, he challenges, and then he smothers Ford’s desperate shot attempt when he has no other choice but to shoot.
He’s effective in defending the pick-and-roll as well, mostly due to his persistence around screens. Rose gets picked off just like every other perimeter player in the N.B.A., but he’s quick to scurry and maneuver back to his man. Rose may be screened, but he’s never deterred. It’s a credit to the Bulls’ bigs that Chicago is so effective in defending the pick-and-roll, but all they can really offer is a window. It’s up to Rose to fight through the screen and recover quickly, to prevent weak-side exploitation of the Bulls’ rotations.
Rose has become relentless. Not perfectly so, mind you, but to an admirable degree. He doesn’t take as many defensive possessions off, even as he carries an absurd amount of offensive responsibility. He doesn’t seem to give up mid-play as often as he did in years past, and instead works diligently to get himself back into defensive position. He doesn’t jump before he should, or take a breather when he shouldn’t. For the first time in his career, Rose looks like he wants to play defense, and it shows.
It’s for real, endorsed by everybody from Magic coach Stan Van Gundy to Chris Bosh to Michael Jordan to Doc Rivers. Not to mention fans everywhere.
‘‘I think it’s over. Derrick Rose has it,’’ Van Gundy said of the NBA Most Valuable Player award. And SVG is the coach of MVP candidate Dwight Howard, a legit stud.
But there’s no stopping a tidal wave.
And unless something weird happens, Rose will be voted the cherished award that has been won by icons such as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Julius Erving, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant and, yes, MJ himself.
But here’s a fact.
The MVP award would be junk if the Bulls don’t reach the NBA Finals.
How can you be the MVP if your team is OK but not great?
Hoops watchers right now are thrilled by Rose, the 22-year-old with the old-school at ude and new-age talent. And they should be.
But if just making your team a lot better than it would be without you is the criterion, then it’s for sure the Magic would be nothing without Howard, the Lakers would be nothing without Bryant, the Mavericks would be nothing without Dirk Nowitzki, the Spurs would be nothing without Tim Duncan, etc.
Oh, and has everybody forgotten a fellow named LeBron James?
Here’s the thing: Rose knows this, too.
‘‘That award is so far away from my mind,’’ he said Thursday after practice at the Berto Center. ‘‘What I’m thinking about is the way we’re playing.’’
I think Dwight should be the MVP.. who is the second best player on that team.. Jameer Nelson? Jason Richardson? Thats a ty supporting case. He has been prime Duncanesque on offense this season, and he is so far and away the best defensive player in the league its ridiculous. Its a shame how overlooked defense has become in the NBA. The only guy who could replace Dwight and lead that team to a similar record or 50+ wins is probably LeBron.
Rose has been great this season... but the Bulls record is what it is due to their overall team defense at least as much due to Rose's supposed brilliance on offense. Obviously is you swap Rose with an average PG the Bulls become an average team.. but they still probably win 40-45 games due to being the best defensive team in the league since losing Rose wouldnt greatly impact that area of their game. If the Bulls replace Thibs with an average coach and replace Noah with an average C and everything remains the same... the Bulls probably only win 40-45 games.
You replace Dwight Howard with an average C i think the Magic are honestly a chance of having the worst record in the entire NBA.
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