Manu Ginobili deserves more criticism

[Man In Black]

You're right! I saw the replay and it started with that lazy pass by Manu. An egregious error that came at a critical moment of the game.

I agree with you, but you have to play the whole play through until the change of possession.

Ginobili gets the rebound, he has Duncan and Parker and Hill and Bonner with just Lee to watch out for.
Ginobili sees Parker and wants to pass the ball to the point and telegraphs the pass to TP.
Lee pulls an old Horry trick out of the book and makes a clean break on the ball.
Parker fights him for the ball and gets the ball up to Duncan.
Duncan passes the ball to Hill. The clock shows 19 here. Spurs are still up 3. You can call a timeout here. You still have 3 seconds to cross the halfcourt.
Hill crosses at 18, executes a reverse pivot move and spins. He should have called a timeout here. But he doesn't.

The play in the scorekeeper's book is listed like this:
Ginobili Rebound (Off:1 Def:5) 00:49.9
Hill Turnover : Bad Pass (2 TO) Steal:Lee (1 ST) 00:39.9
That's the ballgame.

I agree that Manu's initial pass was a bad idea, but they could have overcome that. It should never have been thrown true...but these old pros have played like Biddy Basketball league teams. Errant passes a plenty.

[roycrikside]

No wonder the Spurs don't get respect from the refs, they have by far the stupidest fanbase in the NBA. You people are all ing idiots.

Manu has a 23-7-6 game with 3 steals and 2 turnovers, and he's being ripped on here like he's Bonner. What the are you people looking at? He had a great game.

Until the last desperation 3 in overtime with no time left and them down 5 (a meaningless shot) he was 7-16, which is a pretty good percentage for him. And he got to the line 8 times and made 7.

You people are morons from a podunk town and don't understand the game at all. All you care about are points and you don't care how efficiently (or not) they come and you don't care about the passes that lead to the points.

It's the same mentality people like TPark have when the Lakers beat us and Kobe Bryant scores 33 points on 12-of-32 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. All he sees is the 33 points and meanwhile Pau will have 18 points on 8-11 shooting with 13 rebounds and Bynum will have 14 points on 7-9 shooting with 11 rebounds and you people won't realize they're the ones who beat us, not Kobe.

Tim, Tony and Manu were not the reasons we lost. They all played great. We lost because the bench (Neal, Hill, Blair, Bonner) and RJ were all absolute dog . Anyone with half a ing brain could see that.

You're all terrible fans and really don't deserve a team half as good as the Spurs. You deserve a roster like the Cavs, quite frankly. Good lord.

[diego]

He doesn't have to score 30, but he has to be more efficient and he has to have the energy we are used to seeing when it matters. He has to get to the line at a better clip.

Basically, he needs to match TP and Tim's level of play. He is clearly a step below that and has been for a while now.

i agree manu needs to play better (read: smarter) in the PO for the spurs to be successful. and I agree that tp is playing the best out of the big 3 right now. but since when is duncan playing above manu's level for it to cons ute a while now? two games?

for the PO, i'm a lot more worried about:
bonner staying on the bench
pop's rotations
hill, neal and RJ hitting their shots and playing composed
blair playing bigger than he is
bonner staying on the bench

the big 3 will bring it in the PO, no doubt in my mind. but as several games over the past 10-12 have shown, even with good games from 2 or even all of the big 3 if these other things dont happen we will still lose.

[romain.star]

He was the best out there... I don't know what you guys were looking at... Tony had his chance to turn the game around and he was airballing wide open 3's...

Elnono, you're one quality poster on this board. Really. So, please, don't loose your objectivity.

Manu is in a slump right now. It's obviously dumb to question his potential based on a few games sample but right now, ''he is not the best out there''

[ElNono]

Elnono, you're one quality poster on this board. Really. So, please, don't loose your objectivity.

Manu is in a slump right now. It's obviously dumb to question his potential based on a few games sample but right now, ''he is not the best out there''

Take my posts with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just need to troll a bit to elicit a reaction. When I posted that, the forum was going bananas.

[romain.star]

Take my posts with a grain of salt. Sometimes I just need to troll a bit to elicit a reaction. When I posted that, the forum was going bananas.

Lol

Btw, do you live in the US?? Don't you sleep from time to time?

[Doctor J]

No wonder the Spurs don't get respect from the refs, they have by far the stupidest fanbase in the NBA. You people are all ing idiots.

Manu has a 23-7-6 game with 3 steals and 2 turnovers, and he's being ripped on here like he's Bonner. What the are you people looking at? He had a great game.

Until the last desperation 3 in overtime with no time left and them down 5 (a meaningless shot) he was 7-16, which is a pretty good percentage for him. And he got to the line 8 times and made 7.

You people are morons from a podunk town and don't understand the game at all. All you care about are points and you don't care how efficiently (or not) they come and you don't care about the passes that lead to the points.

It's the same mentality people like TPark have when the Lakers beat us and Kobe Bryant scores 33 points on 12-of-32 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. All he sees is the 33 points and meanwhile Pau will have 18 points on 8-11 shooting with 13 rebounds and Bynum will have 14 points on 7-9 shooting with 11 rebounds and you people won't realize they're the ones who beat us, not Kobe.

Tim, Tony and Manu were not the reasons we lost. They all played great. We lost because the bench (Neal, Hill, Blair, Bonner) and RJ were all absolute dog . Anyone with half a ing brain could see that.

You're all terrible fans and really don't deserve a team half as good as the Spurs. You deserve a roster like the Cavs, quite frankly. Good lord.

This.

[Reggie Williams]

Lol

Spurs fans: No, George Hill is the greatest! GH3 for Life!!!!!!!! I love George Hill!!!!!

You guys are idiots if you still wouldn't trade him for Courtney Lee

[Manu-of-steel]

No wonder the Spurs don't get respect from the refs, they have by far the stupidest fanbase in the NBA. You people are all ing idiots.

Manu has a 23-7-6 game with 3 steals and 2 turnovers, and he's being ripped on here like he's Bonner. What the are you people looking at? He had a great game.

Until the last desperation 3 in overtime with no time left and them down 5 (a meaningless shot) he was 7-16, which is a pretty good percentage for him. And he got to the line 8 times and made 7.

You people are morons from a podunk town and don't understand the game at all. All you care about are points and you don't care how efficiently (or not) they come and you don't care about the passes that lead to the points.

It's the same mentality people like TPark have when the Lakers beat us and Kobe Bryant scores 33 points on 12-of-32 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. All he sees is the 33 points and meanwhile Pau will have 18 points on 8-11 shooting with 13 rebounds and Bynum will have 14 points on 7-9 shooting with 11 rebounds and you people won't realize they're the ones who beat us, not Kobe.

Tim, Tony and Manu were not the reasons we lost. They all played great. We lost because the bench (Neal, Hill, Blair, Bonner) and RJ were all absolute dog . Anyone with half a ing brain could see that.

You're all terrible fans and really don't deserve a team half as good as the Spurs. You deserve a roster like the Cavs, quite frankly. Good lord.

Agree with this post completely.

[TMTTRIO]

Manu needs to just sit out the next game or two. Obviously he's worn out of it and Hill seems to step it up when either Tony or Manu are out.

[DPG21920]

He drove a lot in the second half... heck, he didn't even chuck that many 3's this game. Again, when you give guys 30, 25 minutes and they get you 5 or no points, that's where you need to be looking at. Especially since other guys relegated to the bench were actually producing more.

It's not just about this game, TheNono. I am, as I usually do, referring to the bigger picture.

While he did get to the line and drive much more than lately, he is still not efficient as the Spurs need him to be. That doesn't mean he is playing terrible, but he is simply not playing at a level high enough for the Spurs to win (meaning WCF of more).

I agree there are other things to worry about, but when you watch Manu play, he looks devoid of his legs and energy. Which is the reason for the poor shooting for so long now.

The bench and role players are crucial, but it all hinges on the Big 3 and Manu has been the worst of the big 3 this year for a while now.

i agree manu needs to play better (read: smarter) in the PO for the spurs to be successful. and I agree that tp is playing the best out of the big 3 right now. but since when is duncan playing above manu's level for it to cons ute a while now? two games?

While Duncan has looked unbelievably good these past two games, for the year, TP and Tim have been better and more consistent. Again, its not just about this past game or so. Tim hasn't been scoring as much, but he has really helped the defense. He has been more steady than Manu.

These past two games its not even close and that is what we need to see because the playoffs are almost here. All that matters is how you are playing now and Manu is not on TP's or Tim's level at the moment and hasn't been for a while this year.

[DPG21920]

Lol

Spurs fans: No, George Hill is the greatest! GH3 for Life!!!!!!!! I love George Hill!!!!!

You guys are idiots if you still wouldn't trade him for Courtney Lee

That is so re ed it's not even funny. Even with Hill's ups and downs, there is no question he is better not only day to day than Lee, but his ceiling is considerably higher.

[Creation88]

No wonder the Spurs don't get respect from the refs, they have by far the stupidest fanbase in the NBA. You people are all ing idiots.

Manu has a 23-7-6 game with 3 steals and 2 turnovers, and he's being ripped on here like he's Bonner. What the are you people looking at? He had a great game.

Until the last desperation 3 in overtime with no time left and them down 5 (a meaningless shot) he was 7-16, which is a pretty good percentage for him. And he got to the line 8 times and made 7.

You people are morons from a podunk town and don't understand the game at all. All you care about are points and you don't care how efficiently (or not) they come and you don't care about the passes that lead to the points.

It's the same mentality people like TPark have when the Lakers beat us and Kobe Bryant scores 33 points on 12-of-32 shooting with 3 assists and 6 turnovers. All he sees is the 33 points and meanwhile Pau will have 18 points on 8-11 shooting with 13 rebounds and Bynum will have 14 points on 7-9 shooting with 11 rebounds and you people won't realize they're the ones who beat us, not Kobe.

Tim, Tony and Manu were not the reasons we lost. They all played great. We lost because the bench (Neal, Hill, Blair, Bonner) and RJ were all absolute dog . Anyone with half a ing brain could see that.

You're all terrible fans and really don't deserve a team half as good as the Spurs. You deserve a roster like the Cavs, quite frankly. Good lord.

gimme a ing break. this post isn't just for last night's game, where were you in Feb when Manu dragged ass?

where were you the last game against the Celtics were Manu was obsolete? take off your ing black/silver glasses, just because he's the most beloved Spur doesn't mean he doesn't deserve criticism. stop being such a damn sheep homer.

if you watched the game last night, Manu was dragging ass on defense and he has ZERO legs under his ill-advised 3s late in games.

[ALVAREZ6]

Elnono, you're one quality poster on this board. Really. So, please, don't loose your objectivity.

Manu is in a slump right now. It's obviously dumb to question his potential based on a few games sample but right now, ''he is not the best out there''

He has been "slumping" for 80% of this season. So, that's much more than a slump. He simply blows. As smart as the dude is, it doesn't seem like it at all anymore while watching him play. Oh well.

[dbreiden83080]

Manu tries to take the ball to the hoop from the 3 pt line with 2 seconds on the clock at end of reg

great idea Manu.. Way to not know the situation in the game coming out of a timeout..

Manu deserves a lot of criticism..

[pjjrfan]

this game was won but Manu chosed to make a sloppy pass instead of moving the ball across the time line and calling a time out then Tim makes a great save and Hill catches manuitis and also doesn't call a time out and just throws the ball away. It.sthis kind of sloppy play that has me upset Manu been playing like he has lost more than one step and Tony insists on going one on one on almost every possession,Hill and Manu do the same thing, and whenever Blair get the ball he does the same thing, Jefferson doesn't want to shoot anymore and Bonner also Neal is the only one who wants to shoot but seldom get the ball.

[vander]

no it's all Bonner's fault,

16ppg at around 40%/30% last couple months is ELITE

same goes for Duncan's 13/7

like I said before, all 3 of our big 3 are better suited as 4th options, TP maybe a 3rd.

this team won't even get out of the first round on the backs of the big 3, it's all up to the role players.

[jimo2305]

my avatar is so inappropriate right now..

yes IM MAD!!!

but regardless i still haven't lost it.. here's to hoping we turn it around and stay ahead while we can

[Strategic]

Between Timmy, Manu and Tony they are making over half of the teams' payroll. It's their baby. They all had the ball in the clutch. They either threw it away, couldn't make a shot or didn't run the offense when they should have. They are high paid veterans with successful pedigrees. You win or lose the game in the 4th quarter with the ball in the man's hands. These big numbers Manu had mean about as much as Carmello Anthony's big numbers. THEY DON'T MEAN UNLESS YOUR TEAM WINS!!

[romain.star]

He has been "slumping" for 80% of this season. So, that's much more than a slump. He simply blows. As smart as the dude is, it doesn't seem like it at all anymore while watching him play. Oh well.

Come on, Manu has played great ball till the ASG.

[Strategic]

Come on, Manu has played great ball till the ASG.

All Manu needs is rest. He probably needs more at this point than anyone on the roster. He is a great example of how fatigue affects ones physical and decision making abilities. Give him proper rest and both will improve vastly.

[romain.star]

All Manu needs is rest. He probably needs more at this point than anyone on the roster. He is a great example of how fatigue affects ones physical and decision making abilities. Give him proper rest and both will improve vastly.

Spot on... This is exactly why i've never considered Manu a franchise player ala Bryant, Wade, Pierce, Miller, Durant or even Iverson. He has never been able to carry an NBA team as the go to guy.
He is the perfect X factor. No more, no less.

[ALVAREZ6]

Come on, Manu has played great ball till the ASG.

That isn't true, I remember well. He shot pretty poorly for weeks leading up to the ASG, probably closer to 2 months actually now that I look back and think about it.

[romain.star]

That isn't true, I remember well. He shot pretty poorly for weeks leading up to the ASG, probably closer to 2 months actually now that I look back and think about it.

Ok.... I remember a mini slump in early January but Manu's overall production was really good until this ASG

[ALVAREZ6]

Ok.... I remember a mini slump in early January but Manu's overall production was really good until this ASG

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/splits/2011/

Pre-ASG: 42.7% FG
Post-ASG: 43.4% FG


November: 49%
December: 40%
January: 41.5%
February: 37.7%


Believe what you'd like bro, but I'm gonna go with the cold hard facts which support my memory of this past season.