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Statistic does not say it all when it comes to a player like Manu. You probably know that much better than me.
As far as I remember, pre ASG Manu was the key factor for the Spurs successes.
From an outsider perspective. Three things wrong with the Spurs is that age is creeping in with the big three. Scola should never had been let go but the main reason is the front office. They are responsible for not giving Tim the help that he deserves. Instead they pick up journeymen that only serves as temporary fix but does not solve the main problem. Look at how the Lakers front office aggressively pursues free agents during the off season.
Statistic does not say it all when it comes to a player like Manu. You probably know that much better than me.
As far as I remember, pre ASG Manu was the key factor for the Spurs successes.
Those stats are very relevant in this conversation and don't lie. Just accept that I was correct in this case. We were talking about Manu "slumping" in his shooting and I argued that it's been going on almost all season, and it's undeniable after seeing those stats. Don't try to avoid the real conversation here by saying things like what you said.
You're right that stats don't tell the whole story for a player, especially like Manu, but we're talking about his shooting, and his shot selection and shooting percentage has been upsetting. That is undeniable. In any case, he was not the key factor for the Spurs, just one of many factors of equal importance. Tony Parker has been very consistent and effective all season long, another factor. Until the past week or so, the big 3 has also been injury free; another big difference in this season and factor for their success. Finally, the bench has played unbelievably compared to years past, this season. Gary Neal emerged out of nowhere and contributed immediately, and he along with Bonner have made it rain from 3 for most of the season.
I don't see anything wrong in telling it like it is. Manu is my favorite player of all time, and knowing what he's capable of, it makes me hold him to high standards. I'm not gonna sit here and say he's the main reason why the Spurs have been successful this season and that he's played great this season compared to what the popular perception is. I'm a realist before anything.
And with no consideration for the salary cap, may I add.
I do. Sleep is limited these days though...
Manu couldn't have stopped Ditka last night
Maybe my limited English prevents me from expressing clearly my opinion but I'm not avoiding anything here... I should have made it clear that I was not only talking about his shooting.
IMHO, his overall production was good/great priori to the ASG. I really believe that he was the n°1 reason for the Spurs amazing successes early this season (TP being a close second).
Now i don't get why people are surprised by Manu's slump. It's been like that ever since he was drafted by the Spurs. He has had significant slumps every single season of his NBA career. He just does not have the physical tools to manage 100 games a year (+international BB).
Manu's always in the firing line as he's the one with the pressure of closing. Being a fan favourite also brings out the most passionate haters around. Just look up Ducks. When the team loses everything becomes amplified.
You can fault Manu for bad time management but when it came down to crunch time, he a did great job of setting up others and getting to the line. To blame him for a turn-over that was in Hill's control is just looking for scapegoat. Fans just love to pile-on.
te laisses pas faire romain!
those stats dont take into account that manu has shot more 3 s this season than any other, in fact being one of the biggest 3p attempters in the league- when you consider his minutes and that he is not a specialist, its an obvious change in his game. Still, he has a TS% of 57.9, coincidentally a couple of hair ahead of TP w/57.1 and TD w/53.2. he also has the highest PER of the big 3, a hair ahead of duncan. he leads the team in +/-. for most media he was the team's best player (and therefore a de facto MVP candidate) and the clearest all star on the team.
I dont like to use stats and reputations to measure players, because they obviously dont tell the whole story. If you watch manu, he is playing a different style, exactly because he lacks stamina and so attempts to take care of his body, by driving less and chucking more. If now he is struggling to transition back to his driving game I rather it now than in the 1st round. and as always, TD and TP have been more consistent than manu but he has been clearly better than TD this year, and only slightly better than TP so far (remember that TP had a little slump of his own). i agree about the bench having played well for most of the season till now- but who gets that credit? and if manu's slump is connected to theirs? its hard to create when the offense game plan depends on (insert: finley, mason, bogans, bonner) to make 3s. we set up TP for like 3 3pters at the end- why play against his strength and insist on looking for that shot? at least the big 3, dyess, hill and neal I have faith in to make those shots and not be a pylon on the other side.
does manu need to get it together? yes. like always his inside-out game depends on defenders coming out to guard him, and if his shot is gone its likely his entire offensive game goes with it (he'll still defend and dive for loose balls though). is he the main reason for the six game losing streak? no. i only watched the 4th and OT for the game, which was full of bad D, missed FT, and turnovers (which the spurs did as a team, not just manu). watching that, if you are looking for a scapegoat for the loss, look for the person who chose bonner over scola for our frontcourt and leaves the other guy they waited 3 (?) years for and a highly rated draft steal watch it from the bench. (the same who demands a "floor spreading" big man)
C'est le monde à l'envers.... Un français qui défend Manu et un Argentin qui le taille
This thread doesn't deserve any attention. while it's true Manu is not playing as well as he was earlier in the season. this really is more a reflection of the level of play he was playing earlier. While I admit Manu is no longer the horse who can bring it game after game for the whole season. He definetly is our borometer for success. With Manu the good comes with the bad. but you have to play him this way to get the best out of him.
BTW while I don't suggest going to Manu exclusively to close out games to avoid predictibility , he's still are best closer and you want him involved and touching the ball at the end. wheter that leads to drive or he just acts as decoy (similar to that back door play with a minute to go vs houston. Manu to tim then to tony. the defense focus was on manu to get a handoff from tim. I don't like Tony getting the ball free at the corners, this is what the defense wants him to do , shoot threes, there is a reason why tony is free at the corners and the defense packs the paint.
We really have to be smart how we use the big 3 to compliment each other , Manu is no longer a horse, much more TD, while tony is great at attacking the open court, but he sucks as a catch and shoot player.
One last thing, I heard Sean _ saying we got the shots we wanted we just din't make them. I would question that, seriously do we really want Matt Bonner and Tony shooting threes in clutch situations? When was the last time either made a three with the game on the line. There is a reason why opponens leave them free at game end. Do you honestly think teams would rather have Manu driving or tim rolling to the basket over Tony and bonner taking threes, I don't think so. Tony and Bonner ( i hate to put them in the same group) are not Horry and bowen (catch and shoot players who love hitting that open 3 with game on the line.
Last edited by analyzed; 04-03-2011 at 04:46 AM.
I just can't be a blind homer on the subject. It's not just his shooting, but his shot selection throughout games is just horrible at this point. I know it's never been consistently spectacular throughout his career, but if he refrained from taking so many terrible shots throughout the course of a game, the Spurs would have better chances. All else equal, they would have better chances of keeping leads and not having to grind it out in the last few minutes down to the wire. It's all about winning games before the last few minutes, and taking stupid shots throughout a game greatly decreased those chances, especially considering this team is nothing special on the defensive end.
We shall all agree on the fact that Manu plays like right now. He is having his annual slump. nothing new here. Hopefully, he'll be back to his usual self come PO time
Sad to say but I think Manu's done for the season. Hopefully Hill, Neal, and RJ will reappear and carry some of the load.
Refs reward teams based on their fanbase?
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