Long Form Birth Certificate Required

[baseline bum]

"Are you in this country illegally?"

"I'm not sure anymore."

[RandomGuy]

My children just got denied passports because they were not born in a medical facility.

They were all born at home.

I sent certified Texas Birth Certificates (short form); they were not good enough. The department of state wants more information for my children to get passports.

I pointed out to the mindless Washington bureaucrat that both my wife and I were US citizens, and that because of this our children are automatically, even if they were born on the moon.

Would have none of it.

What they are requesting?

Medical records created within the first year of birth showing name, date and place of birth.

Anyone have any idea what that would be? I own a company that processes medical claims, and I have no idea. Anyone have a doctor's office bill that shows WHERE you, or your children were born? I don't, and even if at one time I did; I didn't know I needed to keep it so my kids could get a passport one day.

Thought that's what the birth certificate was for.

My surname begins "Vill" - is not hispanic, but I can't help but think that plays a large part in this. Other than spring break trips to Mexico, and a visit to Niagara Falls, I have NEVER been out of this country, and my children have NEVER left. And yet: My children's ing citizenship is actually being questioned.

of an atmosphere we've created in this country.

I would strongly suspect that the birth certificate you have is fully adequate in terms of legal requirements.

Honestly, it sounds like a good lunch hour project. I will do some googlin' and see what I can find along those lines.

If it were me, I would be asking that guy about the legal basis for his request. Ask for the specific law or regulation.

The state of Texas issued that do ent, and if the Federal government won't accept it, that seems to be a bone for the Attorney General of Texas to pick with that particular bureaucrat.

edit---
Come to think of it, I would think the state government of Texas would LOVE to get some play by fighting a federal burearcrat over this...

Methinks that is a pissing contest that Texas would win.

[LnGrrrR]

I promise you that you don't need to be dedicated. You need a scanner and a printer. I promise you some of those forms 101 mentioned are nothing more than printed out do ents with no seal, watermarks, or other identifying features.

Its about as much security as leaving a car window down but saying its OK because you locked the door.

I'm not saying those do ents are hard to fake when it comes to making them look real. But collecting real names of people who taught in those schools, real names of people who worked in those hospitals, etc etc. Most likely, someone is reviewing those do ents and doublechecking a handful of them by calling said school/hospital/etc etc.

[RandomGuy]

Preliminary research:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get...tml#step3first

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes

Hmmm. It say *some*.

Also found the specific law:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...dno=22;cc=ecfr

Not sure if that link will work, but it is on the right track. The law may direct or allow the department of State to make some rules in this regard. One would have to look up the regulations as well.

http://aoprals.state.gov/content.asp...231&menu_id=92

Still working on the specifics.

(edit) State Department does not appear to have specific regulations on passports. Odd.

[RandomGuy]

le 22: Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS

(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant's place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.

(b) Secondary evidence of birth in the United States. If the applicant cannot submit a birth certificate that meets the requirement of paragraph (a) of this section, he or she must submit secondary evidence sufficient to establish to the satisfaction of the Department that he or she was born in the United States. Secondary evidence includes but is not limited to hospital birth certificates, baptismal certificates, medical and school records, certificates of cir cision, other do entary evidence created shortly after birth but generally not more than 5 years after birth, and/or affidavits of persons having personal knowledge of the facts of the birth.

That is what the law says on the matter.

[RandomGuy]

An affidavit of someone attending the birth would seem to suffice.

The law seems to give the Department of State wide lat ude in asking for something, but does seem to leave some room for negotiation with the person processing your request.

[101A]

le 22: Foreign Relations
PART 51—PASSPORTS

(a) Primary evidence of birth in the United States. A person born in the United States generally must submit a birth certificate. The birth certificate must show the full name of the applicant, the applicant's place and date of birth, the full name of the parent(s), and must be signed by the official custodian of birth records, bear the seal of the issuing office, and show a filing date within one year of the date of birth.

...

That is what the law says on the matter.

And the birth certificate I supplied meets those requirements, however
that's 51.42 - later is ...

§ 51.45 Department discretion to require evidence of U.S. citizenship or non-citizen nationality.

The Department may require an applicant to provide any evidence that it deems necessary to establish that he or she is a U.S. citizen or non-citizen national, including evidence in addition to the evidence specified in 22 CFR 51.42 through 51.44.

They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.

[RandomGuy]

And the birth certificate I supplied meets those requirements, however
that's 51.42 - later is ...

They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.

Well, I did put in a call to The Department of State Health Services Vital Statistics Unit. After being on hold for approximately 1/2 hour, I got through.
(888) 963-7111



You can get a Long Form Birth Certificate issued, with only the short form. Takes a few days, but there you go.

edit

Sorry forgot the URL:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqpr...fied_copy.shtm

That may be easier than fighting this fight. Just spend the $22 each to get the long form and submit *that* instead.

Hope this helps. Interesting problem, sorry to hear about your troubles.

[101A]

Spoke to them again.

Looks like my slew of (faxed) file stuffing evidence is good enough to satisfy the powers that be. My children's passports are being issued (allegedly).

Lessons learned:

1. Be aggressive (they mentioned hearing from the Senator's and Congressman's representatives)

2. Send lots of paper.

[101A]

Well, I did put in a call to The Department of State Health Services Vital Statistics Unit. After being on hold for approximately 1/2 hour, I got through.
(888) 963-7111



You can get a Long Form Birth Certificate issued, with only the short form. Takes a few days, but there you go.

edit

Sorry forgot the URL:
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/reqpr...fied_copy.shtm

That may be easier than fighting this fight. Just spend the $22 each to get the long form and submit *that* instead.

Hope this helps. Interesting problem, sorry to hear about your troubles.

The long form wouldn't have helped - I thought when I started the thread it would have, I was wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not saying those do ents are hard to fake when it comes to making them look real. But collecting real names of people who taught in those schools, real names of people who worked in those hospitals, etc etc. Most likely, someone is reviewing those do ents and doublechecking a handful of them by calling said school/hospital/etc etc.

I don't buy they're double checking anything for a second.

[LnGrrrR]

They are well within their "rights" - which, frankly, is slightly more ominous.

The whole "slew of paperwork" fits in other areas as well. When I put in my wife's green card paperwork, the lawyer had me throw in copies of cards/letters, plane flight tickets, an entire month of phone bill records, etc etc. He pretty much stated that the thicker the stack of paperwork, the more legit it seems.

[LnGrrrR]

I don't buy they're double checking anything for a second.

Probably not. But there's a chance they might be, so the forger has to decide whether or not he thinks they won't (and therefore, not have to do the research) or he thinks they might (and do a ton of research).

Again, all it takes is one fishy do ent pulled at random, and the forger could be in serious trouble. By providing massive amounts of paperwork, it tends to hurt the idea that all of it was forged.

[SnakeBoy]

Just get rid of the kid born in Helotes. That child is the cause of all your problems.

[101A]

Just get rid of the kid born in Helotes. That child is the cause of all your problems.

Yeah - but he's my favorite.

[ploto]

I am sending a slew of school, medical and insurance records to her (via fax) to prove my children's citizenship.

If this "works", it truly indicates the idiocy of bureaucracy. The do ents I am sending would be a piece of cake to create (report cards, shot records, etc....) much easier than getting the certified birth certificate I submitted already.

Reminds me a little of a situation I had with a financial ins ution. They said my son had to have a state issued ID card- he was under 16- to show proof of iden y. I told them- here's his passport. They said no that it had to be a state of Texas ID. After trying unsuccessfully to explain to the woman what it took to get him this passport, I then spent 2 hours in line at DPS to get him a state ID. You guessed it- all I had to show them to obtain it was his passport.

[101A]

Reminds me a little of a situation I had with a financial ins ution. They said my son had to have a state issued ID card- he was under 16- to show proof of iden y. I told them- here's his passport. They said no that it had to be a state of Texas ID. After trying unsuccessfully to explain to the woman what it took to get him this passport, I then spent 2 hours in line at DPS to get him a state ID. You guessed it- all I had to show them to obtain it was his passport.

Keep the anecdotes coming. Before long, were going to have a book.