Duncan vs Kareem

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

lol this thread 5 pages long

Lol that it even exists.

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

so many flaws in your thesis where do I start...

Well since I'm one of the more astute Laker fans on this site and I always call BS when I see it...let me call out your BS....I guess we should assume that you'd take Duncan over MJ as well...right? and why because we should subscribe to the outdated theory that you always take good big man no matter what right?

Well let me break it down for you...

Consensus league wide as of today is that MJ and Kobe are 1-2 the two best 2-guards to ever play the game.

The whole problem I have with your argument is that it's not based on winning and championships at all, but rather, it's based on this previous "novelty idea" or notion that you pick a big man regardless...wrong...Kobe was not only better than Duncan during their primes he's proved that he's 10 X better than Duncan post prime as well. Duncan was decent but Duncan didn't help bring SA more, fame, glory, acclaim, and les than Kobe has to LA... and Duncan has proved that he doesn't have lasting power. He came into the league after Kobe and has declined at a much faster pace despite not even playing a tougher position than Kobe.

But knowing what we know now...No GM (outside of SA) in their right minds should choose a Prime Duncan over Prime Kobe..now if your argument is choosing on draft day and not really knowing how they'd turn out I'd agree...pick Duncan but to say you'd choose PRIME is complete and utter bull ...Duncan in his prime wasn't better than Kobe and as the team player and individual talent today he looks like Gar-bage right now and Kobe has another 2-3 yr window... of course I'm a Laker homer but facts are on my side... to me your view shows that you have a surface level knowledge at best and at worst you're just parroting old talking points from the media.

no hard feelings my man...but I can get down and dirty with the best of em and answer a higher clarion when called upon.

and yes I love to hear myself speak....

[Koolaid_Man]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

another thing let's look at those teams that Prime Kobe had to play with vs Duncan: you lose in every aspect of your argument:

Spurs 2002-2003:

Bruce Bowen
Devin Brown
Speedy Claxton
Tim Duncan
Danny Ferry
Manu Ginobili
Steve Kerr

Tony Parker
David Robinson
Malik Rose
Steve Smith
Kevin Willis

Lakers 2004-2005:

Sasha Vujacic
Chuckey Atkins
Tierre Brown
Tony Bobbit
Kareem Rush
Luke Walton
Devean George
Caron Butler (traded)
Jumaine Jones
Brian Cook
Lamar Odom
Medvedenko
Chris Mihm

2005 -2006 Additions:

Von Wafer
Smush Parker
Devin Green
Aaron Mckie
Jim Jackson
Larhon Profit
Kwame Brown
Ronny Turiaf
Andrew Bynum (rookie project)

2006 - 2007 Additions:

Jordan Farmar
Maurice Evans
Shammond Williams
JR Pinnock

Now tell me again how was Prime Kobe supposed to compete with this garbage...you mutha ers don't really know ...let me know when you ready to start being honest bout the situation....

[TDfan2007]

It seems as though lakaluva being neutered has turned you into an even worse poster. Didn't think that was possible tbh...

Before you proceed down the yellow brick road with your "fairness doctrine" just remember one thing...

1st option in San Antonio means your a 3rd option in LA...Kobe's stats as a second option in LA supercedes Duncan's as 1st option in SA...

Fact Check: Basketball Reference dot com....

PS: At no point in time was Duncan ever better than Kobe...he may have had a better team at certain times but Man to Man...Kobe would run him out the gym...there's not a GM alive (outside of SA) that would take a prime Duncan over a Prime Kobe...not a single one...

and if you want to argue rings....let's here it...I'll leave you with this to reminisce to:

[ohmwrecker]

Now tell me again how was Prime Kobe supposed to compete with this garbage...you mutha ers don't really know ...let me know when you ready to start being honest bout the situation....

You're comparing a Spurs championship squad to the Lakers teams after Kobe ran his meal ticket . . . uh, Shaq out of town? I thought once someone was diagnosed with the re disease . . . that was it . . . that's as dumb as a person can get . . . but you keep getting dumber. It's amazing really. You are an oddity of medical science. You belong in a jar full of formaldehyde in a circus sideshow somewhere.

[Axe Murderer]

Lol that it even exists.

not my fault GNSF took the bait

[Koolaid_Man]

You're comparing a Spurs championship squad to the Lakers teams after Kobe ran his meal ticket . . . uh, Shaq out of town? I thought once someone was diagnosed with the re disease . . . that was it . . . that's as dumb as a person can get . . . but you keep getting dumber. It's amazing really. You are an oddity of medical science. You belong in a jar full of formaldehyde in a circus sideshow somewhere.

since you can't seem to logically follow an argument let me

t-y-p-e v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y s-o t-h-a-t e-l-d-u-m-b-o c-a-n g-e-t i-t....

w-e w-e-r-e t-a-l-k-i-n-g b-o-u-t p-l-a-y-i-n-g i-n t-h-e-i-r

p-r-i-m-e-s... o--k s-t-u-p-i-d F-U-C-K.....

[Killakobe81]

I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.

You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.

I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.

I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...

I don't disagree ...completely. I think both sides are missing something. I don't think it would be unanimous either way (Kobe/Duncan) and I will tell you why. Traditional GM's would take Duncan over Kobe, Lebron and Durant for that matter. But what people forget here is basketball is a business. And Kobe/Lebron gives you a chance to not only win but also to makes oodles of cash even if you DO NOT win a le. Are you telling me that if both Duncan Kobe and Lebron are in their primes, that the Lakers and Cavs would trade those guys for Duncan? GTFO!!!

Whether it is right or wrong I won't argue here. And maybe Jamstone, you are right most GM's would go the Duncan route. But I bet most OWNERS choose Kobe/Lebron. Because the dollars for having a marquee star trumps building a traditional pivot orientated team, ESPECIALLY since MJ proved he could win without one. Neither are MJ, but I just disagree that the owners would follow your reasoning. And since most owners have significant input and can overrule FO decisions, trust me if Mitch or Ferry (when he had that choice) made that call (offering a prime Kobe or Lebron) almost every GM makes that deal (swapping Duncan). I wont say SA definitely would because they are pretty loyal as organizations go. But my guess more than half take Kobe/Lebron.

Remember that although at the tail end of his prime, the Lakers chose Kobe over Shaq. And although Shaq wanted to leave Orlando, part of his reasoning was that he felt the Magic were marketing penny as their star over Shaq. So teams have made that choice (to a lessor extent). And even though i would NOT choose Lebron over Dwight (even though Lebron is a better player) I can see why people would choose Lebron ...and they would not be wrong to do so.

[ohmwrecker]

since you can't seem to logically follow an argument let me . . . blah blah blah

Uh, no . . . we weren't. This thread isn't about Kobe, you mushbrained imbecile. But since you can't talk about anything else . . .

In his prime, Kobe rang with Shaq, lost to the Spurs, lost to the Pistons, ran his meal ticket out of town, talked about his teammates and didn't ring again until he ed so much that he pulled another top 5 big to carry him past his prime.

Perspective.

[Giuseppe]

That ran off meal ticket turned into Odom with whom we've now went Back-2-Back with...

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

[ohmwrecker]

That ran off meal ticket turned into Odom with whom we've now went Back-2-Back with...

Ipso facto:::

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

[Kyle Orton]

of course Galileo voted for Duncan

[djohn2oo8]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

Ohm with the goods

[Koolaid_Man]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

and we'll run his ass off to if he doesn't get right...we don't around biyyyaaattchhh...

[Giuseppe]

And . . . He tried to run off Bynum lol

Odom was no help until the Spaniard came to town.

That Spaniard never won a single playoff game till he got to town.

& you've no room. Your Robinson ran off Rodman with a Holy Bible.

[ohmwrecker]

That Spaniard never won a single playoff game till he got to town.

& you've no room. Your Robinson ran off Rodman with a Holy Bible.

Rambling nonsense is a poor weapon against fact.

[Giuseppe]

Rambling nonsense is a poor weapon against fact.

You just don't like it when the is pushed back on ya.

[ohmwrecker]

You just don't like it when the is pushed back on ya.

I need a shovel, tbh.

[Giuseppe]

I need a shovel, tbh.

Just clean your own house before you come lookin' at mine.

[ohmwrecker]

Just clean your own house before you come lookin' at mine.

I'm cleaning house and most of this ain't mine, pappy.

[Giuseppe]

I'm cleaning house and most of this ain't mine, pappy.

We're each responsible for all our back to olden times, Ohm. You don't get to pick the cutoff date to suit you. You take the good with the bad and live with it all.

[ohmwrecker]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start , I finish it.

[JJ Hickson]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start , I finish it.

Wow what a badass!

[Giuseppe]

I'll take my fair share, bubba. Just remember who's doing the poking and who's doing the poking back around here. I don't start , I finish it.

But, I'm Chef Giuseppe, and I serve the Sandwiches.

Chow.

[ohmwrecker]

Wow what a badass!

You are so literal. It's a sign of stupidity, you know. A little hyperbole never hurt anybody.