Phil: Kobe's Very First Words To MJ Was: "I Can Beat You 1 on 1"

[LkrFan]

I would take a prime Shaq or Gasol over Pippen every day of the week.

MJ never needed a big to carry him. Quite the opposite in fact.

MJ didn't need a 20/10 big - don't get it twisted. He did need defensive minded bigs: Oakley, Cartwright, Ho Grant, Worm. Then for good measure he had other less than stellar bigs like Wennington, Stacy King, Luc Longley, Will Perdue, etc. to deliver anywhere from 18-24 fouls per game on players like Shaq, Ewing, Brad Daughterty, etc. to lessen their effectiveness.

Now granted an MJ/Pippen defensive duo is probably the greatest defensive tandem in NBA history. They could guard PGs, SGs, and SFs like a mofo. That is invaluable because if you can dominate the backcourt defensively, put a ton of pressure on them offensively, and lessen the effectiveness of their bread and butter (centers, powerforwards) you win. PJ knew that that's why he used to sick a 21 year old Kobe on a perimeter's best player during Kobe's 1st 3peat. Couple that with MJ/Pippen's offensive ability - which could lead a Ewing into foul trouble, you have a recipe for success.

So I don't buy that crap that MJ won without bigs. He had plenty of them at his disposal on the defensive side of the ball. I already stated that MJ/Pippen were the best defensive tandem in NBA history. Then they added Worm - a player that was versatile enough to check MJ in one game and Shaq in the next. Then he could rebound like a mofo. Not looking at his numbers but I could guarantee you he doesn't average over 10ppg but he is a HOFer (finally) because of his versatilty defensively. You have 3 players that are the best at their positions and they are versatile enough to crossmatch against other players in varying positions - you know what the results were: 72-10.

So please stop with this notion that MJ didn't have help in the pivot. He did - it just was on the defensive side of the ball.

[Giuseppe]

Dispute that MJ played with Pippen for most of his career and was able to lead a team while Bryant got butthurt and tore his team apart? Of course not.

I don't knock Bryant for making Buss toe the line. I salute him for it. I abhor for being y though due to the events of Colorado, of his own making. It cost him, and us, Bryant's prime. Those three years after Eagle (5,6,7) were the prime's prime of Bryant's career. They were spent in a sad soup of, relief, regret, rage, and finally resignation. When Bryant was finally able to act on his own behalf again, and our's by default he acted accordingly and with my full blessing.

[Koolaid_Man]

OK. Since this is the way Laker fan wants to do it...

Jordan without Pippen - on the bulls, when it mattered not when he was 40 years old on the ing Wizards

Pts: 33.70
FG%: .493
Rbs: 6.01
Ast: 5.32
Stl: 2.74
Blk: 1.26

Kobe without Shaq or Gasol

Pts: 31.75
FG%: .450
Rbs: 5.63
Ast: 5.25
Stl: 1.54
Blk: 0.53

Keep in mind that these were Jordan's first 3 years in the league and Kobe still doesn't beat him in one statistical category. Add the rest of both of their careers and only a blind man wouldn't see the difference.

Game/Set/Match, check mate, whatever analogy you want to use...Jordan>Kobe

all of that and yet still Kobe won more than he did...

Jordan without Pippen (5 seasons):

.430 win %
0 les
0 MVPs
0 Finals MVP
0 Finals appearances
0 Playoff series wins
1-9 playoff record
0 NBA All Defense Team
0 NBA Defensive Player of the year

Kobe 3 Seasons without Shaq and Gasol:
.492 win %
0 les
1 Regular Season MVP
0 Finals MVP
0 Finals appearances
0 Playoff series wins
4-8 playoff record
3 NBA All Defense Team
0 NBA Defensive Player of the year

[Giuseppe]

^Kool Aid Man

[Man In Black]

Nice misleading statement there. Kobe never rang without either Shaq or Gasol.

Not that I want to read the whole thing but it's funny, Bean never rang without Turnstile Fish either.
As it stands, Duncan and Russell are the only players who have ever won les in which the entire team around them changed players from the 1st le to it's most current. Bean needs Fish.

[Giuseppe]

^But, in the final analysis, Kobe leads Duncan: 5-4.

[Man In Black]

^whatever Parrot Boy. Did you ever figure out what the word acquitted means?

[Giuseppe]

^whatever Parrot Boy. Did you ever figure out what the word acquitted means?

Yer just stove up because Pop went on the street and picked up a rapist.

Congratulations, you're now in the Rapist's Club.

ha, ha.

[LkrFan]

Not that I want to read the whole thing but it's funny, Bean never rang without Turnstile Fish either.
As it stands, Duncan and Russell are the only players who have ever won les in which the entire team around them changed players from the 1st le to it's most current. Bean needs Fish.

...and Kobe is the only player in NBA history to lead his team to back-to-back les without a HOF teammate. The following players cannot make that same claim:

MJ - never repeated without Pippen
Bird - never won or repeated without McHale, Parish, or Dennis Johnson
Magic - never won or repeated without KAJ
KAJ -never repeated without Magic
Duncan*

*Never went back-to-back with a HOF teammate.

[Koolaid_Man]

^But, in the final analysis, Kobe leads Duncan: 5-4.

Before it's all over the Spur fan will be on their knees begging me for more...

[LkrFan]

Yer just stove up because Pop went on the street and picked up a rapist.

Congratulations, you're now in the Rapist's Club.

ha, ha.

[LkrFan]

all of that and yet still Kobe won more than he did...

Jordan without Pippen (5 seasons):

.430 win %
0 les
0 MVPs
0 Finals MVP
0 Finals appearances
0 Playoff series wins
1-9 playoff record
0 NBA All Defense Team
0 NBA Defensive Player of the year

Kobe 3 Seasons without Shaq and Gasol:
.492 win %
0 les
1 Regular Season MVP
0 Finals MVP
0 Finals appearances
0 Playoff series wins
4-8 playoff record
3 NBA All Defense Team
0 NBA Defensive Player of the year

This better than Blue Magic!! American Gangster ain't got on this post. Now spin this haters. this shhhiiiiiiiiitttttt!

Kool aka Frank Lucas.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

...and Kobe is the only player in NBA history to lead his team to back-to-back les without a HOF teammate. The following players cannot make that same claim:

MJ - never repeated without Pippen
Bird - never won or repeated without McHale, Parish, or Dennis Johnson
Magic - never won or repeated without KAJ
KAJ -never repeated without Magic
Duncan*

*Never went back-to-back with a HOF teammate.

Shaq and Gasol's careers are not even over dip .

[LkrFan]

Shaq and Gasol's careers are not even over dip .

When Gasol was 0-12 in the playoffs, did you consider the then 1-time all star a HOFer?

I'm anxiously waiting for the ...

[lefty]

[FuzzyLumpkins]

MJ didn't need a 20/10 big - don't get it twisted. He did need defensive minded bigs: Oakley, Cartwright, Ho Grant, Worm. Then for good measure he had other less than stellar bigs like Wennington, Stacy King, Luc Longley, Will Perdue, etc. to deliver anywhere from 18-24 fouls per game on players like Shaq, Ewing, Brad Daughterty, etc. to lessen their effectiveness.

Now granted an MJ/Pippen defensive duo is probably the greatest defensive tandem in NBA history. They could guard PGs, SGs, and SFs like a mofo. That is invaluable because if you can dominate the backcourt defensively, put a ton of pressure on them offensively, and lessen the effectiveness of their bread and butter (centers, powerforwards) you win. PJ knew that that's why he used to sick a 21 year old Kobe on a perimeter's best player during Kobe's 1st 3peat. Couple that with MJ/Pippen's offensive ability - which could lead a Ewing into foul trouble, you have a recipe for success.

So I don't buy that crap that MJ won without bigs. He had plenty of them at his disposal on the defensive side of the ball. I already stated that MJ/Pippen were the best defensive tandem in NBA history. Then they added Worm - a player that was versatile enough to check MJ in one game and Shaq in the next. Then he could rebound like a mofo. Not looking at his numbers but I could guarantee you he doesn't average over 10ppg but he is a HOFer (finally) because of his versatilty defensively. You have 3 players that are the best at their positions and they are versatile enough to crossmatch against other players in varying positions - you know what the results were: 72-10.

So please stop with this notion that MJ didn't have help in the pivot. He did - it just was on the defensive side of the ball.

A defensive big versus a HoF and potential HoF big?

Its like the difference between Ron Artest and LBJ.

[LkrFan]

A defensive big versus a HoF and potential HoF big?

Its like the difference between Ron Artest and LBJ.

I'm glad you pointed that out:

Artest: 1
LBJ: 0

[Giuseppe]

I'm glad you pointed that out:

Artest: 1
LBJ: 0

GD rights, nail his ass to the Tree of Woe. Go on, no mercy!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When Gasol was 0-12 in the playoffs, did you consider the then 1-time all star a HOFer?

I'm anxiously waiting for the ...

I don't really consider Pippen an HoF either. Being on a team like the Lakers and Bulls helps.

Fact is you are making assumptions on an unknown future to make your insipid point.

1993 Pippen vs 2001 Shaq?
1997 Pippen vs 2008 Gasol?

I will take the elite bigs thank you very much.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm glad you pointed that out:

Artest: 1
LBJ: 0

What point do you think that you have made?

We are talking about the second options. We are not talking about the 6th option on your current roster.

[Giuseppe]

What point do you think that you have made?

That Artest has an NBA World le, and James doesn't.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

GD rights, nail his ass to the Tree of Woe. Go on, no mercy!

The lakerfan circle jerk does not gain you credibility amongst the general populace.

[Giuseppe]

The lakerfan circle jerk does not gain you credibility amongst the general populace.

I dance with who brung me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That Artest has an NBA World le, and James doesn't.

So?

This effects MJ having a lesser supporting cast exactly how?

You have a defensive stopper AND the big. Thats against your position and not for it.

[LkrFan]

lefty with the goods.

LkrFan with the ruckus for all you muther as:



The Lake Show was just immature that year. Lakers/Bulls in 1998 would have been epic - despite Del Harris.