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  1. #26
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I agree, but if the employer doesn't like their demands, they should be able to hire a replacement work force too.

    Out with the old, in with the new.
    That works with expanding workforces. Not so much with countries experiencing negative population growth.

    Chinese factory bosses are beginning to find this out.

    Such mobility cuts both ways.

    Were I one of the executives in charge, I would be asking some rather pertinent questions:

    "How much is the turnover costing us?"
    "How much is the law firm we have employed costing us?"

    Then comparing that to say, paying people more. At some point there is some solid productivity gains from not having to re-train an entire workforce every few weeks.

  2. #27
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    WC never met a Human-American that he'd want to save from being crushed/robbed/enslaved by Corporate-Americans.

  3. #28
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Funny...theres probably at least 15 million under-employed people in this country that can only get part time work and these guys are ing about getting overtime...

  4. #29
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    "at least 15 million under-employed people in this country"

    exactly, that's how employers hold the power to screw desperate employees and new hires out of living wages.

    Corporate-Americans are the worst enemies of Human-Americans.

  5. #30
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    Good news, people: America's wages are up--the average worker is making more today than a year ago! How much more, you ask? Get ready to be excited: 58 cents a week.

    http://www.otherwords.org/articles/m...ouse_wage_hike

  6. #31
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    I agree, but if the employer doesn't like their demands, they should be able to hire a replacement work force too.
    I totally agree with this. I need to do some more research on unions and strikes, and the laws associated with them. (Unless anyone wants to give a primer here.)

    Out with the old, in with the new.
    Again, I agree. If working conditions are bad, the scabs will eventually strike as well, and the employer will have to deal with continual turnover. (Which is a drain on their pocketbooks; having to continually train replacements is not cost-effective.)

  7. #32
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Funny...theres probably at least 15 million under-employed people in this country that can only get part time work and these guys are ing about getting overtime...
    Forced overtime when given a reasonable notice to expect it is fine; forced overtime when they tell you 30 minutes before quitting time is garbage.

  8. #33
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    Here's another way Repugs screwed the bubbas who vote them into office:

    "On August 23, 2004, controversial changes to the FLSA's overtime regulations went into effect, making substantial modifications to the definition of an "exempt" employee. Low-level working supervisors throughout American industries were reclassified as “executives” and lost overtime rights. These changes were sought by business interests and the Bush administration, which claimed that the laws needed clarification and that few workers would be affected. The Bush administration called the new regulations "FairPay.""

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act

    Poof! Like the Soup Nazi, "No Overtime For You", sucker.

    STFU and get back to work, or else.

  9. #34
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Pay them the same hourly rate as the Swedes, let them work 30 hours per week, and then watch Ikea stores close their doors in the US. Unemployed Ikea workers can then go on the government dole. Problem solved.

  10. #35
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Funny...theres probably at least 15 million under-employed people in this country that can only get part time work and these guys are ing about getting overtime...
    and apparently no small number of them live in that area, according to the article.

    The fact that they are still quitting anyway says a lot, don't you think?

  11. #36
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Pay them the same hourly rate as the Swedes, let them work 30 hours per week, and then watch Ikea stores close their doors in the US. Unemployed Ikea workers can then go on the government dole. Problem solved.
    Hourly rates and benefits should be whatever the market is willing to allow

    - DarrinS

  12. #37
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Hourly rates and benefits should be whatever the market is willing to allow

    - DarrinS


    Yes. And the market sure worked to my advantage in the late 90's.

  13. #38
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    It's wonderful how you people are so perverted/brain washed by the VRWC's hate-lazy-employees/hate-commununist-unions/love-saintly-employers that you side with IKEA against these working-poor miserables.

  14. #39
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

    Payroll tax, then income tax works out to about that.

    Still I imagine the benefits purchased with that, such as solid unemployment benefits, health insurance, daycare, and vacations, probably takes the edge off that.

    It isn't what you make, its what you keep.

    The average US worker in the end has been keeping less and less, after everything, including health care, is tallied up.

    The only difference is that they pay it all up front so they know what it is costing them, and we get nickeled and dimed to death, so that we can hang on to the illusion of low taxes and high standards of living.
    This. I'll also add:

    I had the opportunity to go overseas in a consulting capacity. It was a full time offer and substantially better than what I was offered here. I'm fortunate that I'm in a position that allows me to negotiate my vacation time. I gave up 10k in salary to get 2 more weeks of vacation and 3 more discretionary days. That made the vacation package I was offered here on par with what I was offered over there. In the end, I get 3 more discretionary days, while taking 50k less in salary staying here.

    As you can probably tell, as far as I'm concerned, time away is priceless. I'll gladly sacrifice salary to get extra. Unfortunately, these workers aren't in a position to do that. Salary disparity might be explainable, however I find it preposterous that they only get 4 days off of their choosing. How do you justify giving 3 weeks less vacation than their better compensated counterparts across the pond?

  15. #40
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This. I'll also add:

    I had the opportunity to go overseas in a consulting capacity. It was a full time offer and substantially better than what I was offered here. I'm fortunate that I'm in a position that allows me to negotiate my vacation time. I gave up 10k in salary to get 2 more weeks of vacation and 3 more discretionary days. That made the vacation package I was offered here on par with what I was offered over there. In the end, I get 3 more discretionary days, while taking 50k less in salary staying here.

    As you can probably tell, as far as I'm concerned, time away is priceless. I'll gladly sacrifice salary to get extra. Unfortunately, these workers aren't in a position to do that. Salary disparity might be explainable, however I find it preposterous that they only get 4 days off of their choosing. How do you justify giving 3 weeks less vacation than their better compensated counterparts across the pond?
    We have many more desperately poor people with much less bargaining power both at the workplace and at the ballot box. That tends to lower the bar for everyone, IMO.

    It has been pointed out here that US industry seems to have forgotten one important bit of wisdom from Henry Ford, who paid his workers very well.

    He wanted his employees to be able to afford his product.

    But that is a discussion for the "1%" thread.

  16. #41
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Funny...theres probably at least 15 million under-employed people in this country that can only get part time work and these guys are ing about getting overtime...
    I've been ing about overtime too. I'm working a minimum 50 hour week. With the added expenses of hiring new employees, my employer decided to work people as much as they will work instead of bringing in new hires. The uncertainty of the immediate future of health care costs... A real job killer.

  17. #42
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I've been ing about overtime too. I'm working a minimum 50 hour week. With the added expenses of hiring new employees, my employer decided to work people as much as they will work instead of bringing in new hires. The uncertainty of the immediate future of health care costs... A real job killer.
    Meh.

    We already bear so much of the cost of health care embedded in everything anyways.

    The problem is not the cost so much as the uncertainty. The HMO and hospital executives I talk to say as much when I ask them about how this all will affect their businesses.

  18. #43
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Meh.

    We already bear so much of the cost of health care embedded in everything anyways.

    The problem is not the cost so much as the uncertainty. The HMO and hospital executives I talk to say as much when I ask them about how this all will affect their businesses.
    Explain that to businesses that do provide health care. They are receiving the brunt of the extra costs.

  19. #44
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    "Explain that to businesses that do provide health care. They are receiving the brunt of the extra costs."

    what? businesses (employers?)

    "extra costs" are tax-deductible, as well as being scraped off the top of the employees salaries, explaining clearly that while group health insurance costs have exploded, employee income has stagnated (the salaries are sucked by the health insurers).

    If employers want to get out from under providing group health plans, why aren't supporting a public health insurance option?

    And why have Repugs killed Oregon/Wyden's plan to let employees take their employers' health insurance and buy on the exchanges? Sounds like Repugs LOVE federal blocking of state initiatives.

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