Initial Reaction: Spurs @ Grizzlies - Game 4

[bigdog]

I've never once gotten up and left during a Spurs game, but I did in the 4th quarter of this one. Just a very very poor performance, but props to the Grizzlies. They're a of a team. I hope the Spurs can win Game 5 and somehow come back and win, but if that doesn't happen, it was a well deserved win for Memphis.

[Dex]

Initial Reaction:

[JR3]

This thread is right on. Exactly what I have been thinking over the last 12 hours.

[ginobilized]

Great write up TiMVP.

Here's to hoping the Spurs fans get an all out performance from our team in game 5.

Does it appear that the team is losing faith in the "system" and their coach?
It's hard to know what's going on behind the scenes, but, Manu, giving up seems like a statement to Pop.

[Crookshanks]

Well - it's been more than 12 hours since that debacle of a game, and I'm still depressed. I really thought the Spurs were going to win it all this year. I had such high hopes for them - and they all came crashing down last night.

Yes, in theory, the Spurs could still win this series. But realistically, I don't see it happening because Memphis just isn't making many mistakes and they're playing with a ton of swagger and confidence. Add to that the benefit of some really horrible officiating, and I'm afraid my Spurs are done.

After the .4 heartbreak, I swore I wouldn't let a game get to me like this - but I just can't help it. I love the Spurs and it hurts to see them give up like they did last night.

[Solid D]

I've seen this before. This game reminded me of the ineptness of the Spurs in games 3 and 4 of the 2001 sweep by the Lakers. The Lakers defended the 3-point line and shut down the lane and the Spurs were befuddled and broken...just like they were in the second half of Game 4 versus the Grizzlies (turnovers aside).

The only difference was that it seemed like the slaps and grabs that weren't getting called seemed to cause the Spurs to get frustrated and just sit back and take it.

Sean Elliott said game 4 he was reminded of the Utah series. A series that served as a stimulus to cause Pop to model his philosophy after Utah's. That may need to happen again.

[Isitjustme?]

Tony, Tim and Manu look tired. Not a few days worth of tired or a season's worth of tired, they look a career's worth of tired. It's a psychological fatigue just as much as it's a physical fatigue. It's the same kind of tired you saw in the Phoenix series. The hype and emotion of the Mavs series last year allowed them to mask it and play on fumes, but the adrenaline rush doesn't last forever.

As good as Manu and Tony are, Tim Duncan is what made them the players we've seen over the past 10 years. We were kind of tricked into thinking the Spurs could win without Duncan being a force on the offensive side of the floor. But the Spurs' success has always been attributable to Duncan. And right now he just looks tired.

I agree with this. If Duncan was still a dominant player, Parker and Gibobili would look better as they would be complimentary players instead of go to ones.

[G-Nob]

I feel the the Grizz need to go ahead and put the Spurs away in Game 5 so I can nickname this series Fast Five.

[Solid D]

I feel the the Grizz need to go ahead and put the Spurs away in Game 5 so I can nickname this series Fast Five.

Oh, now that would be a good reason to lose.

[dbreiden83080]

Can't disagree with anything said there. The game was like a funeral. 9 min left in the 4th and i turned it off and had to go for a walk. I couldn't take it anymore..

[Pauleta14]

The French flag in your avatar tells me all I need to know before even reading your stupid ing post. The big 3 isn't the reason we're 1-3, PARKER has two of those losses on him, especially the last 2 games where he was either dribbling the ball off of his knee or throwing it into the stands. Which teams D is focusing on him??? The Grizzlies are doing NOTHING as far as gameplans go to contain Parker, he is playing like a rookie trying to find himself, he almost makes me want to see Gary Neal start in his place. Nothing he is doing seems to come with any purpose.

wow, haters are so funny...

As smart as you think you are, you should read my entire post before posting you BS...

I watch the game (do you?) and see like everybody how disapointing TP is, he's not even near the production that is expected...

but

You can't win a series with only 3 players, you need decent role players and those one have gone awol for the spurs, like they did last year against the suns...

and I repeat, as bad as Tony was, he isn't the main reason we lost 3 games (not even 2), he is obviously a (big) factor, but not the main one, far from it! Pop, the lack of bigs, RJ or Bonner are far worse than Tony

FYI my fav spur in Manu and the main reason I (often) defend TP is because of the hate/lack of respect he receives on the board...

We wouldn't even be in the PO without him...

I guess you're among the idiots who want(ed) to trade TP and start Hill...

[Borosai]

The Spurs can still win this series if they get hot from the perimeter for three games. Not likely, but possible.

[Pauleta14]

The Spurs can still win this series if they get hot from the perimeter for three games. Not likely, but possible.

Before being hot, they have to (sometimes) be open, it didn't happe a lot because of the grizz D...

all the 3s are contested, Neal had to shoot way behind the 3pts line last game .

[da_suns_fan]

Good luck moving . $40 ing million for this .... unbelievable. I never figured Jefferson would be Steve Smith the sequel when the Spurs made the trade. Whottt was the only one who called it.

Excuse me? I SCREAMED that Jefferson wasnt going to be a good fit and I was told "only a Suns fan could see a negative in the Jefferson trade".

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

wow, haters are so funny...
I guess you're among the idiots who want(ed) to trade TP and start Hill...

Wow homers are so funny. Obviously the firs thing that came to your tiny brain was to defend TP. When you're responsible for almost half of the teams turnovers in a game, the blame lies predominately with you. He's our PG, PG's are supposed to execute the offense aren't they? Turnovers lead to fast breaks, fast breaks lead to points, and against an athletic team like Memphis that is young and inexperienced those easy points lead to a ton of confidence and momentum. Outside of Manu, everyone on the Spurs has been pitiful this series. You would think a Finals MVP could at least run a fastbreak without throwing the ball a foot behind a running RJ, or dribbling the ball off of his knee.

As for Trading TP, yeah obviously he needs to go. Along with Manu, Tim, Bonner, Dice, and RJ. Time to blow this team up and get some young pieces in return. Hill is still young and may improve, and seeing is this core is DONE, there's no reason to keep them around. Send Tim to a contender, same with Manu. Let those guys use their skillset somewhere that they will make an impact.

You may be watching the games, but you obviously don't understand basketball. Give me an example of one adjustment the Grizzlies have made to slow down Parker. He's turned the ball over at least 10 times the last two games simply because he had no focus and was moving with no purpose. Let's not even start on all the wide open jumpers Conley has given him that he's bricked.

[Old School 44]

This season's on Pop. It started with his demotion of Blair and then snowballed from there..., no developed youth/athleticism/length at the 4/5, turning Richard Jefferson into a role player, running the offense through 3-pt shooters, no interior defensive help for Duncan, and my personal favorite, playing Manu against Phoenix in the last game of the season.

[Pauleta14]

Wow homers are so funny. Obviously the firs thing that came to your tiny brain was to defend TP. When you're responsible for almost half of the teams turnovers in a game, the blame lies predominately with you. He's our PG, PG's are supposed to execute the offense aren't they? Turnovers lead to fast breaks, fast breaks lead to points, and against an athletic team like Memphis that is young and inexperienced those easy points lead to a ton of confidence and momentum. Outside of Manu, everyone on the Spurs has been pitiful this series. You would think a Finals MVP could at least run a fastbreak without throwing the ball a foot behind a running RJ, or dribbling the ball off of his knee.

As for Trading TP, yeah obviously he needs to go. Along with Manu, Tim, Bonner, Dice, and RJ. Time to blow this team up and get some young pieces in return. Hill is still young and may improve, and seeing is this core is DONE, there's no reason to keep them around. Send Tim to a contender, same with Manu. Let those guys use their skillset somewhere that they will make an impact.

You may be watching the games, but you obviously don't understand basketball. Give me an example of one adjustment the Grizzlies have made to slow down Parker. He's turned the ball over at least 10 times the last two games simply because he had no focus and was moving with no purpose. Let's not even start on all the wide open jumpers Conley has given him that he's bricked.

Again, did you watch the games??

Anyway, think I'm a homer if you want, my goal was just to point out that the (lack of) production of the role players (+Pop coaching) was more a factor in the series than the (poor) play of Parker or Duncan...

You have you opinion, fine, I'm not going to argue the whole day, because I'm not enough comfortable with my english to do so.

But your 1st point was that because I'm french, I'm biased and a homer, whitch is stupid...

I criticize Parker as much as any player, the fact is that I really think the role players are as much a factor than the leaders, especially with the spurs style of play...
We're not a "catch and shoot" team for instance, the whole players have to participate and even if TP, Timmy and Manu didn't win a game by themselves, they weren't the reason of the losses... (even if tp's TOs are unacceptable at that level, 9/12 shooting compensate in a way).

You wanted an example of what memphis is doing?

Watch again the job they are doing denying the passing lanes,
watch again the way they pack when Tony or Manu goes in the paint
Watch again the way their player who is beaten off the drible doesn't stop playing but go and help the bigs in the paint (remember Arthur block on TP before his alley hoop? that's the perfect example, he blocked from behind, tony didn't see him coming)

The grizz are the n°1 team in the league at creating TOs, even when they don't, they deflect and are constantly active with their hands on the ball...

I tip my hat to the grizz, they are playing like a TEAM (thanks to Rudy Gay injury?) every games like it's the 7...

The only way we can beat them is with a TEAM EFFORT, not with the super production of 1 or 2 players.
If you are/were expecting Tony to win this series by himself, you are/were just wrong IMO.

When Tony or Manu have the ball in hand, it's like the rest of the team is whatching them waiting for do it all...

So again, with a decent production of RJ, Bonner and Hill (mainly those 3), memphis wouldn't have all their attention on Tony and Manu, and those 2 would be able to do their thing...

So next time if you want to argue (whitch is fine with me) don't bring that "flag" argument that I find insulting.
I'm not saying I know everything, but like every TEAM sports, BB is no excetion, you win and lose thks/becasue of the team not because of the production of 1 player (with a few exceptions...)

and didn't even bring the lack of bigs argument...

BTW, do you know a way to communicate without insulting people who didn't insult you?

[Agloco]

Parker hasn't been able to carry the team like you'd expect the youngest and healthiest member of the Big 3 to do. Although he shot well he had 7 costly turnovers and just 1 assist. Conley had the opposite with 1 turnover, 7 assists. He's been the biggest disappointment for me in the series.

This.

You could make a case that the Post-All Star Break Spurs are actually the team that we were expecting out of the gate.

[quentin_compson]

Give the Grizzlies a lot of credit. Their defensive game plan is working: be physical, play the passing lanes relentlessly (thereby disrupting the offensive rhythm of your opponent) and run the three point shooters off the line.

That being said, the Spurs are only looking like a veteran team right now because they look old. They haven't really shown the good characteristics a veteran team is expected to possess - smart decisions, adjusting to difficult situations and such.
In the second half, they were looking flat out old, tired, beaten, worn-out.

I have no idea what's wrong with Tony Parker, but he is having a godawful series. He shot the ball well in Game 4, but as far as running the offense goes, he did things wrong at a rate that was (in a negative way) amazing. He is being outplayed by Mike Conley, and that's as sad as it is a recipe for disaster.
Granted, Manu and Tim haven't been great this series, but to me, Tony has been the most disappointing player out of the Big Three by far.

Add to that that the roleplayers not only don't step up but rather disappear, and you know why the Spurs are down 3-1. All year long, RJ has been pretty good at knocking down shots despite not getting a lot of touches. This ability, it seems, is gone completely, and yesterday, he was even close to refusing to shoot at all.

Let's face it. This is basically the same team that got swept by Phoenix last year while being punked by the likes of Dragic and Frye. The Big Three just don't seem to have the juice any longer to carry this team, and the roleplayers don't step up on a consistent basis (not even one a game or something like that).
Even with the great (and unexpected) RS record, I didn't expect the Spurs to win a championship this year. I thought that the WCF were the most likely ceiling for this team. And I knew that Memphis would be a tough matchup in the first round. But right now, I'm not very confident in our guys to even win Game 5. I hope they prove me wrong.

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

Again, did you watch the games??

But your 1st point was that because I'm french, I'm biased and a homer, whitch is stupid...
We're not a "catch and shoot" team You wanted an example of what memphis is doing?

Watch again the job they are doing denying the passing lanes,
watch again the way they pack when Tony or Manu goes in the paint
Watch again the way their player who is beaten off the drible doesn't stop playing but go and help the bigs in the paint (remember Arthur block on TP before his alley hoop? that's the perfect example, he blocked from behind, tony didn't see him coming)

you really don't understand basketball do you?
90% of Parkers points don't come off of passes, mainly they come off of him either taking his man off the dribble and finishing at the rim, or Tim setting a screen and TP actually hitting his 17 foot jumper, there goes your first point.

The problem is when they pack the lane and tony is going against 2 bigs plus the man guarding him that's 3 defenders drawn to him according to you, why hasn't he been able to pass to the open man? There goes another.

Again if Arthur is trailing him, and a big is waiting under the basket that means what? Someone is open somewhere, and this is what seperates a scoring PG from a true PG like a Chris Paul or Jason Kidd. Tony has lost his court vision this entire series.

As for not being a catch and shoot team, I'm guessing you haven't followed this team all year because that makes no sense. Bonner, Neal, RJ, and Hill are all guys that are catch and shoot players so I don't know where you're getting that. Manu and tony are the only shooters on the team that can create their own shots, even Neal to some extent.

Take the homer glasses off. Nobody ever said it was all on TP, but if he was even playing Conley to a ing draw it would at least be 2-2. Instead he's making stupid TO's and killing our momentum while Memphis runs off of his TOs and scores east fastbreak buckets

[Pauleta14]

you really don't understand basketball do you?
90% of Parkers points don't come off of passes, mainly they come off of him either taking his man off the dribble and finishing at the rim, or Tim setting a screen and TP actually hitting his 17 foot jumper, there goes your first point.

The problem is when they pack the lane and tony is going against 2 bigs plus the man guarding him that's 3 defenders drawn to him according to you, why hasn't he been able to pass to the open man? There goes another.

Again if Arthur is trailing him, and a big is waiting under the basket that means what? Someone is open somewhere, and this is what seperates a scoring PG from a true PG like a Chris Paul or Jason Kidd. Tony has lost his court vision this entire series.

As for not being a catch and shoot team, I'm guessing you haven't followed this team all year because that makes no sense. Bonner, Neal, RJ, and Hill are all guys that are catch and shoot players so I don't know where you're getting that. Manu and tony are the only shooters on the team that can create their own shots, even Neal to some extent.

Take the homer glasses off. Nobody ever said it was all on TP, but if he was even playing Conley to a ing draw it would at least be 2-2. Instead he's making stupid TO's and killing our momentum while Memphis runs off of his TOs and scores east fastbreak buckets

wow, do you at least read my entire post???

You're the one obsessed by Parker obviously and that's makes you blind concerning the other players..

Did I say Parker did a great job or something close to it?

read again....

Especialy the part where I talk about the fact that memphis is playing with a lot more energy and have all it's player playing together, at the same time...?
Even when our 3pt shooters get the ball they rarely are open, because memphis players are constantly active contrary to the spurs players.

I don't even know why I'm losing my time with you...

I don't see myself as the best BB specialist and often learn a lot with some STalkers with smart constructive posts, whitch is obviously not your case.
You just decide to understand what suits your tiny brain instead of having a constructive talk, I've had enough of you for today.

[boutons_deux]

the key Grizz defense tactic was to stay up close to their man, while the Spurs sag way off, go under screens, leaving them open for jumpers.

[Pauleta14]

Nobody ever said it was all on TP, but if he was even playing Conley to a ing draw it would at least be 2-2. Instead he's making stupid TO's and killing our momentum while Memphis runs off of his TOs and scores east fastbreak buckets

do you at least read your own posts??

[SenorSpur]

The hardest part to swallow here is that the Spurs could have drafted Darrell Arthur. They could have used his size the last 2-3 years. We would have had no need to Dice and could have gone after a better wing or backup PG. Oh well.

GReat point. In fact, there were a lot of teams that passed on Arthur during that draft. He's really developed his shot and has turned into a very fine-looking player.

[silverblk mystix]

GReat point. In fact, there were a lot of teams that passed on Arthur during that draft. He's really developed his shot and has turned into a very fine-looking player.

It would NOT have in' mattered...

because Pop would have played Bonner in front of him....and Popologists...would have defended the decision.