Five Step Rebuilding Plan

[The_Worlds_finest]

Tayshaun Prince is up. He would be a damn good spur and Rj could back him up incase RJs butt is sore from the night before

[objective]

Like others, I'll have to post my own, true reality, objectified rebuilding plan later.

But I'll post this for now, and I see a few people already are wise enough to know it:

RJ and Bonner CAN NOT be in uniform next season. Maybe the Spurs can't find anyone dumb enough to take them in a trade, but they can not be allowed into uniform.

Anyone who even thinks that RJ can perform off the bench or the other canard that Bonner is best in 15 minutes is FOOLING THEMSELVES.

It's like when people talked themselves into thinking that Pop was right for not playing Splitter at the start of the playoffs. You guys knew better, but you still talked yourself into it.

Don't make the same mistake with RJ and Bonner . . . especially RJ.

He can not start.

He can not come off the bench.

He can not be a part of the Spurs team. And that is the case no matter what.

If TD retires and they trade Manu and Parker to get pieces to rebuild . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

If they convince themselves they're contenders again and go for a ring . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

If they decide to have a smooth decline and just enjoy the last years of TD and Manu on a nostalgic farewell tour that lasts another couple of years before the true rebuild starts . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

NO JEFFERSON.

NO BONNER.

Contend or rebuild, it doesn't change. GET THOSE GUYS OFF THIS TEAM. I don't care if the Spurs rebuild or reload, but those two most of all drain the life out of the team.

[TJastal]

I would say to get a tall, long, athletic, mobile shot blocker and a defensive SF.

Kind of in the mold of Ian Mahinmi and Malik Haiston?

[ElNono]

Like others, I'll have to post my own, true reality, objectified rebuilding plan later.

But I'll post this for now, and I see a few people already are wise enough to know it:

RJ and Bonner CAN NOT be in uniform next season. Maybe the Spurs can't find anyone dumb enough to take them in a trade, but they can not be allowed into uniform.

Anyone who even thinks that RJ can perform off the bench or the other canard that Bonner is best in 15 minutes is FOOLING THEMSELVES.

It's like when people talked themselves into thinking that Pop was right for not playing Splitter at the start of the playoffs. You guys knew better, but you still talked yourself into it.

Don't make the same mistake with RJ and Bonner . . . especially RJ.

He can not start.

He can not come off the bench.

He can not be a part of the Spurs team. And that is the case no matter what.

If TD retires and they trade Manu and Parker to get pieces to rebuild . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

If they convince themselves they're contenders again and go for a ring . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

If they decide to have a smooth decline and just enjoy the last years of TD and Manu on a nostalgic farewell tour that lasts another couple of years before the true rebuild starts . . . RJ can not play, even off the bench.

NO JEFFERSON.

NO BONNER.

Contend or rebuild, it doesn't change. GET THOSE GUYS OFF THIS TEAM. I don't care if the Spurs rebuild or reload, but those two most of all drain the life out of the team.

Agree 100%... just like Finley after getting the extension, it just grows old and tired to see the same guys doing the same disappearing acts and constantly the same mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, nobody is pinning this series loss strictly on them. They're just part of the problem.

[TJastal]

I think the combination of a healthy Ginobili/Parker are good enough for the Spurs "go-to scoring options."

Zbo is an inside player and if the Spurs had enough size and athleticism at that position, he could have been contained somewhat.

The problem is, Spurs didn't have enough role players providing offense to take some strain off Parker/Ginobili. And you can tell by their body language in the losses...it's hard to continue scoring on one end while your team is just giving up points on the other end.

Spurs need to drop this whole run and gun offense and find defensive minded players.

Kind of in the mold of say, Ian Mahinmi & Malik Hairston?

[ElNono]

Kind of in the mold of say, Ian Mahinmi & Malik Hairston?

That's bridge under the water anyways since Pop had a different idea of the way he wanted this team to play. So, even if they would've been on the team, they would have probably been glued to the bench.

[TJastal]

That's bridge under the water anyways since Pop had a different idea of the way he wanted this team to play. So, even if they would've been on the team, they would have probably been glued to the bench.

EL Nono..gotta take 90% of my posts with a tongue in cheek approach.

[Slippy]

Another step . Suppose you could put into the defense first, less 3 point orientated steps. Pop's philosophy on a stretch 4 - it's just not worth it. Hopefully we've seen the end of it.

[ElNono]

EL Nono..gotta take 90% of my posts with a tongue in cheek approach.

[ElNono]

Another step . Suppose you could put into the defense first, less 3 point orientated steps. Pop's philosophy on a stretch 4 - it's just not worth it. Hopefully we've seen the end of it.

Not until redhead is gone. Until then, Pop will always think Matty will turn the corner and become Horry 2.

[20beastie45]

Get R.C. Buford to take a good hard look at how Championship teams are built again. or get some that understand

DEFENSE
REBOUNDING
SHOT BLOCKING
TOUGHNESS
MENTAL TOUGHNESS

Try to convince Holt to spend some money!

[Slippy]

Not until redhead is gone. Until then, Pop will always think Matty will turn the corner and become Horry 2.

Surely, he will be done with it by now. Too many faliures.


Im clinging to the hope that Pop decides to get back to his defensive roots and realize we don't have a Horry.

[Doe]

Surely, he will be done with it by now. Too many faliures.


Im clinging to the hope that Pop decides to get back to his defensive roots and realize we don't have a Horry.

I can't even say with any confidence that Bonner will no longer be a fixture in the rotation. This game certainly did nothing to ease my fears. Seriously WTF was RC/Pop smoking when they re-upped him after the last two disaster playoffs. There isn't even the Dallas excuse this year to fall back on.

[ElNono]

Surely, he will be done with it by now. Too many faliures.

Im clinging to the hope that Pop decides to get back to his defensive roots and realize we don't have a Horry.

Not going to happen. Remember Finley? It took Fin to ask to be traded for Pop to let go. And Pop was heartbroken over it.

[Nathan89]

Step 1- Trade RJ and Hill for Gerald Wallace

[TJastal]

Get R.C. Buford to take a good hard look at how Championship teams are built again. or get some that understand

DEFENSE
REBOUNDING
SHOT BLOCKING
TOUGHNESS
MENTAL TOUGHNESS

Try to convince Holt to spend some money!

Somehow I don't think Holt is gonna be in the money spending mood after getting gyped out of a ton of playoff revenue (no game 7.. no 2nd round, etc) and facing the prospect of paying Jefferson and Bonner 11m+ next season.

[20beastie45]

Somehow I don't think Holt is gonna be in the money spending mood after getting gyped out of a ton of playoff revenue (no game 7.. no 2nd round, etc) and facing the prospect of paying Jefferson and Bonner 11m+ next season.

Can Holt trade himself for Cuban

JK

It would be nice if Holt spent more money

Oh well

[Bruno]

Five reasons why I disagree with timvp's retooling plan:

1. Duncan is done. Pop has been extra careful this season by limiting his minutes. He has only played 28mpg during the regular season. Despite that treatment, he hasn't been able to step up during the post season. And it's not like Gasol or Randolph are DPOY candidates. They wre just big bodies playing hard.

2. National teams. Unless a lockout change that, Parker and Ginobili will play this summer with their NT. Manu will be 34 and will be extra motivated with the compe ion being in Argentina. Parker has a lot of mileage and French NT summer will be one of the longest and more exhausting because FIBA has expanded the Eurobasket to more teams.

3. Pop is senile. Pop has been horrible this year. IMO, two quotes sum up well that. First, the "it isn't fair to the team" explanation given on why Splitter hasn't played more. Second, the "defense isn't the problem" comment made during the 6 games losing streak while the D was atrocious.

4. Spurs youth isn't that good. Blair and Hill have plateaued, Neal is a limited player, Anderson and Butler have had big injuries... There is nothing to gloat about Spurs young players. They could be fine as a supporting cast but expecting more from them is a reach.

5. Spurs FO won't be able to do a lot to improve the team this summer. On the paper, Spurs could package Dice partially guaranteed contract with draft pick(s) and young players like Blair or Hill. however, Spurs still have a load of money spend and I doubt the ownership will be fine with spending even more money for a first round exit team. For financial reasons, I also don't see Spurs their whole MLE this summer.


So my five step rebuilding plan:

1. Let Duncan retire. At this stage of his career, the best for him and for Spurs is likely a retirement. Gives him the $21.2M left on his contract and keep all the awesome memories he brought to Spurs.

2. Pop should retire. A lot of great old coaches have recently retire or will likely retire (Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Par Ryley, Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Mike Dunleavy). It's time for Pop to follow them. Spurs should have a young coach to start their rebuilding process.

3. Trade Parker, Ginobili and Bonner for expiring, prospects and picks. Parker and Ginobili should fetch some interesting young players and draft picks. Bonner contract isn't bad so Spurs should be able to switch him with an expiring contract.

4. Be patient with RJ's contract. Spurs shouldn't be desperate for dumping RJ to the point of using assets just to get rid of him. You don't need cap space at a start of rebuilding process. Cap space is just needed at the end of it and RJ's contract could be off the book at that stage of the process. His trade value could also improve with Spurs rebuilding and him playing a bigger role. He was a good player before his stint here.

5. Draft is the key. Spurs will have a hard time doing like Miami and attract to tier free agents. In order to get great draft picks, Spurs will need to be really bad 2 or 3 years in a row. It will be painful for fans to follow that but it is a necessary evil.

[TDMVPDPOY]

sfs we should look at if they are available in our price range

prince
ak47
battier

[MaNu4Tres]

You don't need cap space at a start of rebuilding process. Cap space is just needed at the end of it and RJ's contract could be off the book at that stage of the process.

5. Draft is the key. Spurs will have a hard time doing like Miami and attract to tier free agents. In order to get great draft picks, Spurs will need to be really bad 2 or 3 years in a row. It will be painful for fans to follow that but it is a necessary evil.

Agreed on these points 100%

[objective]

I largely agree with Bruno's assesments, though I wouldn't be too heartbroken with a nostalgia farewell tour of the 'big 3' for another year.

Five reasons why I disagree with timvp's retooling plan:

1. Duncan is done. Pop has been extra careful this season by limiting his minutes. He has only played 28mpg during the regular season. Despite that treatment, he hasn't been able to step up during the post season. And it's not like Gasol or Randolph are DPOY candidates. They wre just big bodies playing hard.

Agree. Duncan is just going to end up like Hakeem with the Raptors if he keeps playing. Sad play and a mess of missed games. It's not there yet, but time destroys everything, eventually.

2. National teams. Unless a lockout change that, Parker and Ginobili will play this summer with their NT. Manu will be 34 and will be extra motivated with the compe ion being in Argentina. Parker has a lot of mileage and French NT summer will be one of the longest and more exhausting because FIBA has expanded the Eurobasket to more teams.

True.

3. Pop is senile. Pop has been horrible this year. IMO, two quotes sum up well that. First, the "it isn't fair to the team" explanation given on why Splitter hasn't played more. Second, the "defense isn't the problem" comment made during the 6 games losing streak while the D was atrocious.

Absolutely true. Pop has lost it, lost it years ago.

4. Spurs youth isn't that good. Blair and Hill have plateaued, Neal is a limited player, Anderson and Butler have had big injuries... There is nothing to gloat about Spurs young players. They could be fine as a supporting cast but expecting more from them is a reach.

Largely agree. Both Hill and Blair should be moved, they don't have anywhere else to go as Spurs. I have hope for Anderson though.

5. Spurs FO won't be able to do a lot to improve the team this summer. On the paper, Spurs could package Dice partially guaranteed contract with draft pick(s) and young players like Blair or Hill. however, Spurs still have a load of money spend and I doubt the ownership will be fine with spending even more money for a first round exit team. For financial reasons, I also don't see Spurs their whole MLE this summer.

True. They might even have to sell their 1st rounder thanks to RJ and Bonner. No MLE makes it harder to even get former 2nd rounders signed.

So my five step rebuilding plan:

1. Let Duncan retire. At this stage of his career, the best for him and for Spurs is likely a retirement. Gives him the $21.2M left on his contract and keep all the awesome memories he brought to Spurs.

I'm torn and see both sides. But do have to say that I don't want to see Duncan turn into Raptor Hakeem. I don't want to see Orlando Ewing. I don't want to see Wizards Jordan. Duncan has always done what's best for the Spurs . . . and maybe the best thing he could do at the end is to force the Spurs to change and rebuild.

2. Pop should retire. A lot of great old coaches have recently retire or will likely retire (Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Par Ryley, Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Mike Dunleavy). It's time for Pop to follow them. Spurs should have a young coach to start their rebuilding process.

I agree on Pop leaving but disagree on how it should happen. The BEST thing to happen is for the Spurs to make it clear through back channels that they will grant permission for other teams to talk to Pop. The Lakers, the Magic, and even the Knicks could have coaching changes. Pop still carries a good reputation as one of the greatest coaches ever, even if he doesn't deserve that label now or maybe even ever.

He could then make big time money from one of those teams and take Budenholzer with him. This might not happen if Duncan doesn't retire, but it's what I hope would happen. Pop shouldn't be forced to coach the Spurs through the brutal rebuild. Nor should the Spurs be forced to have the same issues because Pop is still around.

3. Trade Parker, Ginobili and Bonner for expiring, prospects and picks. Parker and Ginobili should fetch some interesting young players and draft picks. Bonner contract isn't bad so Spurs should be able to switch him with an expiring contract.

I'd be fine with that. I also would be fine with a farewell tour or two, especially with Manu. Bonner is trash and should be eliminated no matter what course the Spurs take.

4. Be patient with RJ's contract. Spurs shouldn't be desperate for dumping RJ to the point of using assets just to get rid of him. You don't need cap space at a start of rebuilding process. Cap space is just needed at the end of it and RJ's contract could be off the book at that stage of the process. His trade value could also improve with Spurs rebuilding and him playing a bigger role. He was a good player before his stint here.

Disagree somewhat. No matter what, RJ can't be allowed to be on the active roster. He's done. He's just the kind of player to get fat after the lockout on the partyboat, and his declining athleticism will fall off a cliff. Combine that with his soft laziness, and he's one of the worst contracts in the league.

If Spurs fans have to suffer through a long rebuild, fine. But they should never have to see RJ vomit on the court with his garbage play. He sucks the joy out of watching the Spurs. If he gets treated like Tinsley or Eddy Curry, I'm happy with that. But a single minute of RJ takes away from whatever prospect could have been playing.

5. Draft is the key. Spurs will have a hard time doing like Miami and attract to tier free agents. In order to get great draft picks, Spurs will need to be really bad 2 or 3 years in a row. It will be painful for fans to follow that but it is a necessary evil.

Will the Spurs even be able to afford to keep their first rounder in 2011 thanks to RJ? Even in a bad draft class, I'd hate to see RJ and Bonner screw the Spurs over again.

[TJastal]

And if Tim Duncan isn't ready to retire just yet?

[polandprzem]

And if Tim Duncan isn't ready to retire just yet?

We make him retire

[venitian navigator]

Five reasons why I disagree with timvp's retooling plan:

1. Duncan is done. Pop has been extra careful this season by limiting his minutes. He has only played 28mpg during the regular season. Despite that treatment, he hasn't been able to step up during the post season. And it's not like Gasol or Randolph are DPOY candidates. They wre just big bodies playing hard.

2. National teams. Unless a lockout change that, Parker and Ginobili will play this summer with their NT. Manu will be 34 and will be extra motivated with the compe ion being in Argentina. Parker has a lot of mileage and French NT summer will be one of the longest and more exhausting because FIBA has expanded the Eurobasket to more teams.

3. Pop is senile. Pop has been horrible this year. IMO, two quotes sum up well that. First, the "it isn't fair to the team" explanation given on why Splitter hasn't played more. Second, the "defense isn't the problem" comment made during the 6 games losing streak while the D was atrocious.

4. Spurs youth isn't that good. Blair and Hill have plateaued, Neal is a limited player, Anderson and Butler have had big injuries... There is nothing to gloat about Spurs young players. They could be fine as a supporting cast but expecting more from them is a reach.

5. Spurs FO won't be able to do a lot to improve the team this summer. On the paper, Spurs could package Dice partially guaranteed contract with draft pick(s) and young players like Blair or Hill. however, Spurs still have a load of money spend and I doubt the ownership will be fine with spending even more money for a first round exit team. For financial reasons, I also don't see Spurs their whole MLE this summer.


So my five step rebuilding plan:

1. Let Duncan retire. At this stage of his career, the best for him and for Spurs is likely a retirement. Gives him the $21.2M left on his contract and keep all the awesome memories he brought to Spurs.

2. Pop should retire. A lot of great old coaches have recently retire or will likely retire (Don Nelson, Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, Par Ryley, Phil Jackson, Rick Adelman, Mike Dunleavy). It's time for Pop to follow them. Spurs should have a young coach to start their rebuilding process.

3. Trade Parker, Ginobili and Bonner for expiring, prospects and picks. Parker and Ginobili should fetch some interesting young players and draft picks. Bonner contract isn't bad so Spurs should be able to switch him with an expiring contract.

4. Be patient with RJ's contract. Spurs shouldn't be desperate for dumping RJ to the point of using assets just to get rid of him. You don't need cap space at a start of rebuilding process. Cap space is just needed at the end of it and RJ's contract could be off the book at that stage of the process. His trade value could also improve with Spurs rebuilding and him playing a bigger role. He was a good player before his stint here.

5. Draft is the key. Spurs will have a hard time doing like Miami and attract to tier free agents. In order to get great draft picks, Spurs will need to be really bad 2 or 3 years in a row. It will be painful for fans to follow that but it is a necessary evil.

Both TIMVP and Bruno have reasons for opposite perspective.
I prefer the conservative (TIMVP) one, but not entirely : all the points of Bruno are right, also if, imho, not totally right.

More than all, everything will depend by the outcome of a speech with our supposed "big three".

1) Tim is old and no more good enough to be decisive, but he's not completely done : just have to be kept is a reserve and teaching role if he wants to stay with us...and if he wants to go to a contender, I'm (sad but) fine with it, but only if the price is right

2) Manu and Tp wants both (legitimately) to play with their national teams...fine, but this decrease their market value and their energies for next seasons. Also in this case, be clear with them : we can't lose more time in developing players, so at the begionning of next season, their role will be coming from the bench...and if they want to go to a contender, see above...

3) Pop was not senile (how could be that a coach with the second best regular season record with a "senoile" big three" as best players?) but for sure was, and has been in the past, absurdely conservative and stubborn...but the point is that he's the only one to rapresent, for the nba world, the stability of the franchise. I say, pair him with someone (a la PJ Carlesimo) that can dispute him at the some lavel : the 2003 coaching has been maybe the best I've seen for the franchise

4) spurs youth is nothing to write home about, but is more than decent...at lest for a try giving them the right to play extended minutes from the beginning...Hill, Neal, Anderson (Butler-Green), Blair, Splitter (potentially Richards) are not a bad start, and we have to add to them our draft choice and whoever (young player) we can have from the free market or from trades. It's time to develop them and play the old ones only for limited time and just in case of play offs perspective.

5) draft can't be the main, and sure not the exclusive, way for being compe ive again.
As I told in other threads, imho RJ could still be sold to some team (see clips) for interstin packages (see Kaman)...he's the typical wrong player for some "system" (our) and good for another (like the up tempo Clips). He could still be useful if, like should be imho, we decide to go "all in" with the young guns at least at the beginning of the season...but I think that his time with our team is ended.

That said, imho the real reasons we competed at the elite level for so many years were, more than all, a combination of :
1) having luck at the draft with Tim (and before D Rob) with pin-poin balls giving us the absolute first draft choice;
2) havin luck (yes, luck more than all) in drafting Manu (pick 59; not dreaming, at the time, of what he could have been) and TP (n° 28...just 'cause the Celts were without international scauting and preferred Forte...and someone else preferred Tinsley : nb remember that Pop didn't agree with this pick).

Draft can't be the only way and, in any case, you have to be extremely lucky with the years and players you choose...Bargnani or even K Martin aren't the same of a Tim or a Durant.
Lot of teams fail for decades basing their fortunes on draft only...let's see if we can use the draft for improvements on an already decent team (a la Lakers of the past)...

[Bruno]

I wouldn't be too heartbroken with a nostalgia farewell tour of the 'big 3' for another year.

The farewell tour will depend on Tim's choice. If he wants to play one more year, Spurs should postponed the rebuilding plan by one year. It's up to him. Does he want to continue to play at that low level for his standard with an average team around him?

If Spurs fans have to suffer through a long rebuild, fine. But they should never have to see RJ vomit on the court with his garbage play. He sucks the joy out of watching the Spurs. If he gets treated like Tinsley or Eddy Curry, I'm happy with that. But a single minute of RJ takes away from whatever prospect could have been playing.

I have no problem with Spurs telling RJ to stay home or trading him for an equally bad player with an equally bad contracts. I just don't want Spurs trading assets to dump RJ's contract while they don't really need additional capspace.

Will the Spurs even be able to afford to keep their first rounder in 2011 thanks to RJ? Even in a bad draft class, I'd hate to see RJ and Bonner screw the Spurs over again.

The 29th pick in a weak draft doesn't really matter. Spurs will need to be great at picking in 2012, 2013... when they will get lottery picks.