The objective assessment

[jjktkk]

Wow this is shocking. Another Popologist emerges from the woodwork with his rosey colored glasses and spewing garbage opionions trying to minimize the damage that Popovich has wreaked over the past 4 years.

Sorry buddy, these lame excuses might have worked in years past to mask all the flaws, but I think even the old timers are starting to see the reality of the situation.

What kind of fake ass Spurs fan are you? You disappear for 3 months when the Spurs were on a roll and then show up after their playoff exit, to throw out the Pop's an idiot chant. Props on cementing your legacy on ST.

[Obstructed_View]

Its also fun to kick the guy that thinks Mahimni is an allstar and that its better to shoot two point jumpers than three pointers.

"Mahinmi is a better center than Bonner" = "Mahinmi is an all-star"? So you're saying Bonner is an all-star, right? After the way the "Spread the floor" centers got destroyed in a playoff series, it's curious that you would show up with a strawman about Mahinmi of all people.

I said it's better to MAKE two point jumpers than to miss three pointers. You might explain how you disagree with that.

Dumb .

[Obstructed_View]

Its also fun to kick the guy that thinks Mahimni is an allstar and that its better to shoot two point jumpers than three pointers.

And speaking of butthurt Pop apologists...

"Mahinmi is a better center than Bonner" = "Mahinmi is an all-star"? So you're saying Bonner is an all-star, right? After the way the "Spread the floor" centers got destroyed in a playoff series, it's curious that you would show up with a strawman about Mahinmi of all people.

I said it's better to MAKE two point jumpers than to miss three pointers. You might explain how you disagree with that.

Dumb .

[jjktkk]

And speaking of butthurt Pop apologists...

"Mahinmi is a better center than Bonner" = "Mahinmi is an all-star"? So you're saying Bonner is an all-star, right? After the way the "Spread the floor" centers got destroyed in a playoff series, it's curious that you would show up with a strawman about Mahinmi of all people.

I said it's better to MAKE two point jumpers than to miss three pointers. You might explain how you disagree with that.

Dumb .

No the dumb is the one who thinks hes a better coach than a future Hofer. Pop definitely makes some bone headed decisions, overplaying Bonner, Finley etc.... But his postives outweigh the negatives. Because of Bowen's exit/retirement, and other important defensive players like Horry, etc lost over the years, Pop has had to adjust on the fly and play to this current teams strengths. Which is offense. You think if he could find a shutdown defender like a Bowen, and have another defensive big to pair alongside Duncan that he wouldn't take advantage of it and get back to his defensive principles? Splitter has showed flashes of being that big, but hes still raw. Even someone like you can hopefully realize how hard it is to find another Bowensqe type defender to shut down the oppenent's bester perimeter player. Its funny how the majority of knowledgable NBA fans and NBA players, coaches, etc. acknowledge that Pop is one of the best coaches out there, but a very tiny % of stupid mother ers, like yourself, think their NBA IQ is so much better than Pops.

[Obstructed_View]

No the dumb is the one who thinks hes a better coach than a future Hofer. Pop definitely makes some bone headed decisions, overplaying Bonner, Finley etc.... But his postives outweigh the negatives. Because of Bowen's exit/retirement, and other important defensive players like Horry, etc lost over the years, Pop has had to adjust on the fly and play to this current teams strengths. Which is offense. You think if he could find a shutdown defender like a Bowen, and have another defensive big to pair alongside Duncan that he wouldn't take advantage of it and get back to his defensive principles? Splitter has showed flashes of being that big, but hes still raw. Even someone like you can hopefully realize how hard it is to find another Bowensqe type defender to shut down the oppenent's bester perimeter player. Its funny how the majority of knowledgable NBA fans and NBA players, coaches, etc. acknowledge that Pop is one of the best coaches out there, but a very tiny % of stupid mother ers, like yourself, think their NBA IQ is so much better than Pops.

You provided the rope...

Bowen exited because Pop shoved him out the door. Horry left because he was sick of Pop's stupid smallball lineups. Splitter's raw because Pop refused to play him during the season. Pop abandoned defense for smallball when he had the personnel to do something about it. Pop abandoned Bowen's defense for offense when he had the personnel to do something about it. Pop went to a fun and gun offensive strategy when he had the personnel to do something about it. The only thing he's done "on the fly" is abandon those ideas for defense when everything went to in the playoffs, and always, too late.

popsucking stupid ass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Can't blame anyone for armchairing coaching decisions or personnel moves following a season, but some fans need to keep things in perspective.

why did Pop "abandon" the defensive mentality as some have said? He didn't. He assessed what he had on the roster and adjusted.

It's just too bad he has no say in how the team's roster looks

I think he knew the team was not built like teams of old, so he chose not to try to fit a square peg into a round hole, but instead he tried to keep the team compe ive enough to give an aging superstar another chance at a run.

He built it, so make up your mind. He sucks as a coach now, or he sucks in his role as general manager. Both deserve criticism.

He took a calculated risk that earning a high seed would give his team the chance it needed. What he didn't know or couldn't know was that an eighth seed would be as good down low as Memphis was. Timmy just didn't have enough help. And 35 year old TImmy needs more help than 30-year-0ld Timmy.

Pop couldn't have known that two seven footers would be problems for a 35 year old Tim Duncan, 6'5" Dejuan Blair, and Mental Midget Matt Bonner? We've been chasing LA since 2008 when they got Pau, how could he not do anything to shore up his front line for three years knowing the road to the Finals went through LA with Odom and Gasol?

And, Ian Mahinmi would not, will not, ever be the difference maker. So, please let that ridiculous argument die. Could Tiago, if more fully integrated into the system, have helped more? maybe, but he was still an NBA rookie who can't make free throws. Until he learns to make free throws at a rate of at least 65%, his offensive impact will be limited and his full potential unknown.

Free throws? Free throw shooting isn't what kept him on the bench. It's the fact that he couldn't shoot, err brick the three like Bonner.

Who could have helped? Kurt Thomas

So why'd Pop let him go? Why didn't he try to sign him last summer? Wouldn't Pop deserve criticism for that?

So, what did we learn?
Matt Bonner is a nice role player, but shouldn't be an integral focus of the offense

Matt Bonner has been a choker for three straight postseasons. you and anyone else who his too dumb to see that, including Pop.

He should be the last guy on the end of the bench, not playing major minutes for a playoff contender.

Dejuan Blair is too short and too fat for his position

Blair was drafted by Pop. So you're saying Pop screwed up?

Richard Jefferson is there in spurts, but not consistently

RJ is a mental midget who doesn't fit our system and shouldn't have been extended last summer. Another Pop up.

Tiago Splitter must learn to make free throws consistently if he is to reach his full potential

Yes, a guy who shoots two FTs per game was glued to the bench out of the worry of him shooting them at a sufficient pecentage

Tiago was glued to the bench because his name wasn't Matt Bonner and it was his first year here (he got the Larry Brown rookie treatment that Pop has adopted).

Spurs also need a shut-down perimeter defender (6'7 to 6'9) -- the Bruce Bowen type. I don't think George Hill is the answer. he's good, but not nasty enough.

Well, that and the fact Georgie isn't 6'7" to 6'9".

Oh, and pssst - the Bowen replacement (with adequate height) has been a problem for eight years now. When is Pop going to get around to that?

as far as coaching goes, anyone can second guess but it's not really productive.

Correct. Pop is a stubborn arrogant prick who won't change.

Pop has made more good decisions than bad over his tenure and there is a delicate balance between players and coaches that can either make coaches look really good or really bad. I'd rather take my chances with Pop at the helm than any other coach in the league right now.

Four years in a row, zero Finals appearances. It's been a while since he made any good ones.

The golden era appears to be over, but things could be worse. And, in the end, the franchise brought us four les, which is a lot more than many teams can say. So rather than turn on Pop or the organization, I say thank you and let's work to put together the best team we can to give Tim another chance at a run. He deserves it.

Keep pumping, sunshine!

Oh, and a Popapologist calling a thread 'objective' is the funniest thing I've seen all day. Nice work.

[TJastal]

Lol! youre right, to a point. I posted my opinion, and then others piled on because they didn't agree with my opinion. So in MY opinion, I can at people if I want.

But who F'n cares, really. y'all take this way too serious... everything from posts like "is this the worst moment in spurs history"... spurs will suck til 2020... are the spurs the most overrate team in history... blah blah blah.

if you're gonna jump off the ledge, do it already. but the onslaught about the world coming to end is ridiculous. chill a little. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. y'all should know that. Y'all are the ones that ed about Pop, bonner, Tiago not playing, etc. all year long. you got what you expected. so, why the long faces?

but then again, y'all are the ones that think Ian Mahinmi is future hall of famer. and when another 7-footer from overseas comes over, you'll automatically think the same.

oh well, y'all are right, i'm wrong. And I'm okay with it, because none of y'all know me and this is just an internet forum.

This is a spurs talk forum, not quilting 101. If you can't handle serious discussions and negative feedback to your opinions, then why don't you GTFO already.

I don't think anyone said Mahinmi would be a future HOF'er. Can he be an impact player in the league, similar to Serge Ibaka? I think so.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hilarious! some of y'all are just freaking funny as . Here's my real objective perspective...

Y'all post on this forum thinking that anyone actually gives a ... as though what you think matters to the Spurs front office. You think forums like this are something more than for mere entertainment purposes... and ironically, THAT makes them all the funnier.

You mean Pop's not reading our posts? Damn, thought it was that way all this time. How will we ever go on?

What's entertaining is you getting sand in your vagina over us critizing Pop for being a complete idiot for the fourth year in a row.

I also knew as many of this forum seemed to know that it was a long shot that this team would even compete for a le. You assemble the best team you CAN with the resources you have and give it your best shot. That's what the Spurs did. So why all the vitriol? Because some of y'all act as though you think you're next in line for a front office job or something. Or that you may be the next Marc STein or Tim Legler or something.

No, we just enjoy basketball and watching the Spurs and are competent enough to see stupidity on the court when we see it.

Tim Legler is an idiot, and the fact you hold him up as some sort of model of basketball analysis genius further proves how dumb you are. And that goes for any of the talking heads on ESPN.

YOU'RE NOT an NBA analyst. You're not an expert. Your just a fan like me. But unlike me, you think what you say on this forum really matters in the grand scheme of things. It's funny (to a point) how much you hate on players and coaches, and then on people when they don't agree with you or don't join in the hate.

It does! Pop has called many of us on the forum to discuss posts and implement changes we suggested. So there!

But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, as you're breaking down game film in your basement during "off" hours your phone will ring and it will be RC Buford calling to ask your opinion on a European kid with a sweet jumper; or maybe Pop will call to ask your recommendation on when to employ a zone versus man defense; or maybe Matt Bonner will call you to ask for some shooting pointers. It could happen.

Here's hoping it does.

Agreed. Someone needs to help him pull his head out.

And Matt Bonner doesn't need shooting pointers. He needs to grow a pair, grow two inches, add 40 pounds of fast twitch muscle fiber, and actually develop a vertical. Other than that, the guy is a stud.

[TJastal]

What kind of fake ass Spurs fan are you? You disappear for 3 months when the Spurs were on a roll and then show up after their playoff exit, to throw out the Pop's an idiot chant. Props on cementing your legacy on ST.

I was here a good chunk of the year. I only left for awhile because it was getting redundant arguing with the likes of you & Chumpdumper. I told you back then the way Pop was handling Splitter's role on the team would eventually blow up in his face, and I was right. You've got a lot of nerve calling out my fandom, but I would expect nothing less from an arrogant prick such as yourself.

[TJastal]

No the dumb is the one who thinks hes a better coach than a future Hofer. Pop definitely makes some bone headed decisions, overplaying Bonner, Finley etc.... But his postives outweigh the negatives. Because of Bowen's exit/retirement, and other important defensive players like Horry, etc lost over the years, Pop has had to adjust on the fly and play to this current teams strengths. Which is offense. You think if he could find a shutdown defender like a Bowen, and have another defensive big to pair alongside Duncan that he wouldn't take advantage of it and get back to his defensive principles? Splitter has showed flashes of being that big, but hes still raw. Even someone like you can hopefully realize how hard it is to find another Bowensqe type defender to shut down the oppenent's bester perimeter player. Its funny how the majority of knowledgable NBA fans and NBA players, coaches, etc. acknowledge that Pop is one of the best coaches out there, but a very tiny % of stupid mother ers, like yourself, think their NBA IQ is so much better than Pops.

Has it occured to your dumbass that in order to get a player experience (IE shed the "raw" label) is to actually play?

[tmtcsc]

Can't blame anyone for armchairing coaching decisions or personnel moves following a season, but some fans need to keep things in perspective.

why did Pop "abandon" the defensive mentality as some have said? He didn't. He assessed what he had on the roster and adjusted. I think he knew the team was not built like teams of old, so he chose not to try to fit a square peg into a round hole, but instead he tried to keep the team compe ive enough to give an aging superstar another chance at a run. He took a calculated risk that earning a high seed would give his team the chance it needed. What he didn't know or couldn't know was that an eighth seed would be as good down low as Memphis was. Timmy just didn't have enough help. And 35 year old TImmy needs more help than 30-year-0ld Timmy.

And, Ian Mahinmi would not, will not, ever be the difference maker. So, please let that ridiculous argument die. Could Tiago, if more fully integrated into the system, have helped more? maybe, but he was still an NBA rookie who can't make free throws. Until he learns to make free throws at a rate of at least 65%, his offensive impact will be limited and his full potential unknown. Who could have helped? Kurt Thomas

So, what did we learn?
Tony Parker can't carry the team
Ginobilli still has it, if he can stay healthy
Tim Duncan is old and has to pick his spots
Antonio McDyess is tough as nails, but old
George Hill is not a starting poing guard, but he is a good combo guard coming off the bench
Gary Neal is fearless
Matt Bonner is a nice role player, but shouldn't be an integral focus of the offense
Dejuan Blair is too short and too fat for his position
Richard Jefferson is there in spurts, but not consistently
James Anderson must stay healthy to live up to potential
Tiago Splitter must learn to make free throws consistently if he is to reach his full potential

Based on what we know, the Spurs need to find another big man (7-footer) to run the offfense through so that TIm can become the weak side rebounder and defender that David Robinson became in his twilight years. Is Splitter that person? Don't know, but regardless, another big who can play in the low past is necessary given he shortcomings of Blair and age of McDyess. Also, need an enforcer type like a Kurt Thomas.

Spurs also need a shut-down perimeter defender (6'7 to 6'9) -- the Bruce Bowen type. I don't think George Hill is the answer. he's good, but not nasty enough.

If Spurs can find these pieces, and I think they're out there, then they might have enough to make another run before TIm retires.

as far as coaching goes, anyone can second guess but it's not really productive. Pop has made more good decisions than bad over his tenure and there is a delicate balance between players and coaches that can either make coaches look really good or really bad. I'd rather take my chances with Pop at the helm than any other coach in the league right now.

The golden era appears to be over, but things could be worse. And, in the end, the franchise brought us four les, which is a lot more than many teams can say. So rather than turn on Pop or the organization, I say thank you and let's work to put together the best team we can to give Tim another chance at a run. He deserves it.

I was with you until you said Kurt Thomas. We had him here and he underachieved. Pass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I was with you until you said Kurt Thomas. We had him here and he underachieved. Pass.

You had no problem with him pawning Pop's decisions this year based on the personnel, even when Pop has complete control of personnel?

[G-Dawgg]

Gary Neal is fearless but too one dimensional to make an impact during a whole series

Duncan needs to retire before he embarasses himself anymore than he already has

Parker gets stagefright

Hill is deadly but needs to get some confidence

Ginobili plays like coming off injuries

The Spurs team as a whole has become "soft" again

Defense is still the key to victory - which we don't have

Size still rules in this era of mobile perimeter frontlines - which we don't have

Our defensive schemes of funneling opponents to the baseline towards the shot-blockers is kinda suspect if we don't have any shotblockers

We live and die by the 3 ball

Our championship years are now behind us

Period.

[pancakechef]

No offense, but this is anything but an objective assessment - most of the OP is mostly spin.


It was a roster constructed by Pop and RC, with Pop having arguably the bigger influence. He was the one who extended RJ based on off-season workouts, signed Bonner believing that he could be an effective stretch 4.

Good one. How about Matt Bonner's defensive impact being limited due to the fact that he is slow, undersized and can't jump? Didn't stop Pop from playing him 20 minutes.

There is nothing nice about Matt Bonner. He should not see minutes on a playoff team unless there are wholesale injuries.

That's like saying Brett Favre has thrown more good passes than bad. Except that both Pop and Favre did their good work early in their careers and basically made mistake after mistake over their last few years. There is a whole another thread devoted to Pop's decisions with small ball, Finley, Bowen, Mason, Bogans, Bonner, Hill and now Splitter. Most of his good decisions are more than 5 years old.

Alright lets break it down one by one.....

I have hated POP since his TAKEOVER of the Spurs at JUST THE RIGHT MOMENT. He is a sneaky little rat that no one really likes to say anything bad about because of the wins.

1. He can't adjust. He has no clue of who to play and where/when they should play. TD hasnt been DOMINANT for 4-5 years on both ends of the court.

2. McDyess/Bonner- Junk pickups/signings EVERYONE KNOWS Antonio and Bonner are "nice guys" but trash when it comes to ball. Bonner never hits threes in the playoffs because he's not shooting in junk time against 4th stringers. and WTF are we doing signing someone who CANNOT DEFEND outside the paint (he doesnt really do a good job inside the paint anymore) or shoot INSIDE THE PAINT. How can you play a center with virtually 0 post moves?

Look you have to attack the big guys when you are outsized to draw fouls. Blair does this on both ends of the court.

3. Tony. Jesus this kid is AWFUL in a 1/2 court game or any passing situation. LET HIM RUN. That is his only skill. Layups.

4. RJ. Why werent we playing Neal? RJ gets burnt on D and cant score. Neal gets burnt on D and can....

5. Look where things went wrong this year. About 65 COUNT THEM 65 games INTO THE SEASON with the best record. POP pulls Blair for McDyess. Look at our record the 20 or so games McDyess starts.

It doesnt take a genius to figure out the situation year after year.... POP is AWFUL...

How do you take our best rebounder, most instinctive AND ACTIVE bigman (BLAIR) and sub him for Bonner AND MCDYESS>......?????/

please give yourself the pink slip pop. Ive been a spurs fan since 89' I would much rather watch DROB go through the 90's again than watch you F up another post season.

[purist]

OMFG....y'all made your point already... time and time and time again. You think Pop sucks. we get it. and anyone with a differing opinion sucks. I get that too.

what do expect anyone on this forum to do. we're not the GM.... and neither are you. Its just sports... quit being such an asshole... obsructed view.

[pancakechef]

Purist.... you may call me as many things as you like. As long as you follow it up with "you were correct a few years ago and you are correct now"

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

OMFG....y'all made your point already... time and time and time again. You think Pop sucks. we get it. and anyone with a differing opinion sucks. I get that too.

what do expect anyone on this forum to do. we're not the GM.... and neither are you. Its just sports... quit being such an asshole... obsructed view.

I don't think anyone with a different opinion sucks. I think they suck when they can't talk x's and o's and personnel, and choose to hide behind Pop's skirt and say he won a few les back in the day so we should all kiss his ass for making sure Tim Duncan retires with no more rings.

[pancakechef]

Anyone could have coached the Spurs to 4 rings in the Duncan Era

[dude1394]

Hilarious! some of y'all are just freaking funny as . Here's my real objective perspective...

Y'all post on this forum thinking that anyone actually gives a ... as though what you think matters to the Spurs front office. You think forums like this are something more than for mere entertainment purposes... and ironically, THAT makes them all the funnier.

So I come in here and post some positive crap about Pop and y'all go all Tony Allen on me. LOL!

Look, I really don't give a about the people on the Spurs because I don't know them personally. I just know that after 20 some odd years of following the team they finally won a le and then they won three more, all under Popovich. So, I tend to cut him some slack. I also knew as many of this forum seemed to know that it was a long shot that this team would even compete for a le. You assemble the best team you CAN with the resources you have and give it your best shot. That's what the Spurs did. So why all the vitriol? Because some of y'all act as though you think you're next in line for a front office job or something. Or that you may be the next Marc STein or Tim Legler or something.

YOU'RE NOT an NBA analyst. You're not an expert. Your just a fan like me. But unlike me, you think what you say on this forum really matters in the grand scheme of things. It's funny (to a point) how much you hate on players and coaches, and then on people when they don't agree with you or don't join in the hate.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, as you're breaking down game film in your basement during "off" hours your phone will ring and it will be RC Buford calling to ask your opinion on a European kid with a sweet jumper; or maybe Pop will call to ask your recommendation on when to employ a zone versus man defense; or maybe Matt Bonner will call you to ask for some shooting pointers. It could happen.

Here's hoping it does.

Nice post. Fans always seem to think if just the right button were pushed like in a video game, you can't lose. Sometimes the other team is just better.

[TE]

GNSF's are GNSF for a reason.


What a terrible thread.

[Rummpd]

B.S. Pop started to adjust mid series then when he needed too to put Duncan or Splitter on a hot Randolph = Major Fail. Also, a number of Spurs came up small and Duncan simply is not what he used to be sadly.

[purist]

I don't think anyone with a different opinion sucks. I think they suck when they can't talk x's and o's and personnel, and choose to hide behind Pop's skirt and say he won a few les back in the day so we should all kiss his ass for making sure Tim Duncan retires with no more rings.

Right. This forum is all about xs and os ? There's a plethora of evidence to the contrary. But how's this for xs and os; spours weren't nearly as good as many thought they were and memphis is a of a lot better than most thought.

Spurs were simply outmatched in the low post. Duncan's role nneds to change to weakside defender/rebounder and someone else needs to become #1 oprtion in post. Splitter? Maybe, but I don't know. You see, I'm willing to admit I don't know everything.
And, I may be wrong. It's just water cooler talk. It's not global peace.

[pjjrfan]

The whole notion of "work with what you've got" goes out the window when you realize that Pop didn't play Splitter the entire season and didn't have him ready for the playoffs anyway. This is a stupid post and we're all idiots for continuing it. I confess that Kick the Popologist is just too much fun at this point.

The fact that Pop still uses Splitter's injury during training camp as a reason for not using him really bothers me, because the guy's been over that injrury for quite some time. Plus when Tim got hurt Tiago really picked it up, but once Tim came back it was back to the bench, and the fact he didn't get any play the first 3 games of the series becomes more disturbing once he made the decision to bench Blair and go with Splitter. He talks about rhythm yet never lets Splitter get any and then throws him in there. I don't think Pop should retire, but someone needs to point out that his company line is not working anymore and disgruntled fans are going to start calling for his head and believe me when they start losing on a regular basis and attendance starts to go down the voice of the fans will have an impact on who coaches.

[jjktkk]

You provided the rope...

Bowen exited because Pop shoved him out the door. Horry left because he was sick of Pop's stupid smallball lineups. Splitter's raw because Pop refused to play him during the season. Pop abandoned defense for smallball when he had the personnel to do something about it. Pop abandoned Bowen's defense for offense when he had the personnel to do something about it. Pop went to a fun and gun offensive strategy when he had the personnel to do something about it. The only thing he's done "on the fly" is abandon those ideas for defense when everything went to in the playoffs, and always, too late.

popsucking stupid ass.

Who provides you with NBA related info, the little old lady in your apartment complex? Bowen and Horry both retired after they left the Spurs. If they were forced out by the Spurs, why didn't they catch on with another team Nostradumbass?

[jjktkk]

I don't think anyone with a different opinion sucks. I think they suck when they can't talk x's and o's and personnel, and choose to hide behind Pop's skirt and say he won a few les back in the day so we should all kiss his ass for making sure Tim Duncan retires with no more rings.

Since when did you ever provide x's and o's? You constantly and moan about the Spur's roster. Name a Bowen replacement the Spurs can realistically get. And while your trying to come up with something substantial, throw in some bigs with size, and shock blocking ability as well that the Spurs can realistically obtain.