Why was POP/FO the only team going wrong way?

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

Their are 2 reasons why the Spurs haven't gotten a Solid shot blocking center or a have played mobile tall PF.

1 - Defensively, Tim cant play against PF's today like Dirk, Odom, Bosh since those guys are mobile and put the ball on the floor. But if he did their would have to be a traditional 7-1 300lb center in the lane taking up space and blocking shots to cover when Duncan or anyone from the Spurs gets beat. Thats pretty much common knowledge though. Look at the Lakers, its worked well for them

2 - This reason gets overlooked alot. If you get a solid bynum-sized center, or play a mobile defensive PF (Splitter) to play next to duncan then that hurts parker on the offensive end since those type players normally cant shoot. Since the 08-09 season, the offense has revolved more and more around Parker and less on Duncan. Parker can get into lane alot easier with space, and his passing game is only effective when he is in the lane, because as we all know he is not a pure playmaker. Because of that Guys like Bonner,Dice will get alot of playing time with Parker because they allow him room to operate without having to work to hard and it also simplifies the offense for him so he doesnt have to work to hard to make decisions. In the Championship years Duncan was alot more involved and could do more damage. Parker however is now the Spurs most consistent scorer and alot of the lineups put on the floor with him make it possible for him to score without too much work.

If the Spurs upgrade at that position (tall order since Pure pgs are gold in a scoring pg league) then all the other positions can play naturally. And the spurs can get a wing defender,a true shotblocking center+Splitter all with Duncan instead of worrying about whether these guys can hit from beyond 17ft.

nice post

[Obstructed_View]

Good take - and while obviously size & defense have long won championships (especially defense) the 99' Spurs moved the league back that direction after the Jordan Bulls had won (6 of 8), of course the Bulls were good defensively and had decent size from a defensive standpoint.

Jordan's Bulls may never have had a dominating center, but they never lacked size on their front line, people just don't think of them because Jordan and Pippen were insane shot blockers. Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, Bill Wennington and Luc Longley were all legit seven foot centers. Stacey King, Horace Grant, Scott Williams, Cliff Levingston, and John Salley were all big strong power forwards and were at least 6'10"*. The only time they had an undersized power forward was Rodman.

In fact, if you think about guys like Harper, Pippen, and Kukoc and add them to the names above, the Bulls were huge at virtually every position over their run.

*all from memory. It disgusts me how much I remember about the Bulls.

[Cessation]

Jordan's Bulls may never have had a dominating center, but they never lacked size on their front line, people just don't think of them because Jordan and Pippen were insane shot blockers. Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue, Bill Wennington and Luc Longley were all legit seven foot centers. Stacey King, Horace Grant, Scott Williams, Cliff Levingston, and John Salley were all big strong power forwards and were at least 6'10"*. The only time they had an undersized power forward was Rodman.

In fact, if you think about guys like Harper, Pippen, and Kukoc and add them to the names above, the Bulls were huge at virtually every position over their run.

*all from memory. It disgusts me how much I remember about the Bulls.

I agree with this post, and there is nothing wrong with remembering quality championship teams.

Bulls had scrubs with size, that could shoot, and play adequate d in short stints. Spurs have undersized scrubs that can shoot in the regular season. I think pop is trying to get too cute, or cut corners, by trying to out finnesse elite teams, with clowns like bonner and mason. Unsurprisingly, it blew up in his face, yet again.

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with this post, and there is nothing wrong with remembering quality championship teams.

Bulls had scrubs with size, that could shoot, and play adequate d in short stints. Spurs have undersized scrubs that can shoot in the regular season. I think pop is trying to get too cute, or cut corners, by trying to out finnesse elite teams, with clowns like bonner and mason. Unsurprisingly, it blew up in his face, yet again.

Yeah, the same thing has been occurring to me over and over watching the Spurs' front line: You don't have to be great and big, but you have to at least be one. Too often for the last five years, they've been neither.

[dbestpro]

Yeah, the same thing has been occurring to me over and over watching the Spurs' front line: You don't have to be great and big, but you have to at least be one. Too often for the last five years, they've been neither.

I saw it coming. Pop was going to keep the Spurs small with Bonner and Blair, which gave them no chance in the playoffs. I watched every regular season game and took my kid to Disney when the playoffs started. It was just so obvious to everyone that this was no going to work, but Pop.

[DMC]

If you have to make a cake and you don't have eggs, you make it without eggs. That's pretty much what Pop did. The kicker is that he's the one that could have bought the eggs.

[HankChinaski]

last season, the biggest issue the spurs had was little help outside with the jumpers. Defense seemed decent enough to compete with the playoff contenders last year. But we couldn't do squat on the offensive end. They brought in some shooters from signing and the draft.

This year, we had the scoring from outside and players that could create for themselves when we hit the usual spurs shooting funks. The defense became and issue halfway into the season.

Ian just isn't a smart enough player to fit in with the spurs style of play. The years we had Nazr there were different issues we were having when we began to struggle.

And Splitter whom I like so far, just couldn't stay healthy throughout the season, and with Pop having to stick with an offensive minded team strategy when you would see Splitter out there, sure he looked great out on the defensive end but he was a log jam on the offensive end a lot of the time.

This coming season if there is one, expect the team strategy to fall back more on defense. I think neal sticks with the team, bonner is iffy, but if he stays is a decent contributor in the regular season. Hill and Blair are the most expendable pieces you have on the roster to bring in new talent along with a two for one trade with another spurs player.

Really the issue this year was not enough defense. Last year was lack of shot makers on offense.

People whine about the front office, but I think they did a decent job considering the deficiencies they were looking to work on last off season.

[Obstructed_View]

If you have to make a cake and you don't have eggs, you make it without eggs. That's pretty much what Pop did. The kicker is that he's the one that could have bought the eggs.

Flawed logic, because when you have to make a cake you go get eggs.

Second, the analogy needs tweaking: Pop is a professional cake baker who cooks cakes from a boxed cake mix. For years people have said that Pop is a great chef. He tells people that he just reads the back of the box and lets the ingredients do all the real work. One day, for a big event, he spontaneously decides to start making cakes using radishes instead of eggs. He has eggs in the fridge, but he just uses radishes. When people say the cakes taste like , he says that the ingredients need to be fresher or just makes a smart-assed statement about how the person asking the question isn't a chef. He goes and buys the most expensive radishes he can find, selling only radish cakes while his business goes down the tubes.

[MaNu4Tres]

Second, the analogy needs tweaking: Pop is a professional cake baker who cooks cakes from a boxed cake mix. For years people have said that Pop is a great chef. He tells people that he just reads the back of the box and lets the ingredients do all the real work. One day, for a big event, he spontaneously decides to start making cakes using radishes instead of eggs. He has eggs in the fridge, but he just uses radishes. When people say the cakes taste like , he says that the ingredients need to be fresher or just makes a smart-assed statement about how the person asking the question isn't a chef. He goes and buys the most expensive radishes he can find, selling only radish cakes while his business goes down the tubes.

[Nathan89]

Flawed logic, because when you have to make a cake you go get eggs.

Second, the analogy needs tweaking: Pop is a professional cake baker who cooks cakes from a boxed cake mix. For years people have said that Pop is a great chef. He tells people that he just reads the back of the box and lets the ingredients do all the real work. One day, for a big event, he spontaneously decides to start making cakes using radishes instead of eggs. He has eggs in the fridge, but he just uses radishes. When people say the cakes taste like , he says that the ingredients need to be fresher or just makes a smart-assed statement about how the person asking the question isn't a chef. He goes and buys the most expensive radishes he can find, selling only radish cakes while his business goes down the tubes.

Solid post,tbh.

[TJastal]

last season, the biggest issue the spurs had was little help outside with the jumpers. Defense seemed decent enough to compete with the playoff contenders last year. But we couldn't do squat on the offensive end. They brought in some shooters from signing and the draft.

This year, we had the scoring from outside and players that could create for themselves when we hit the usual spurs shooting funks. The defense became and issue halfway into the season.

Ian just isn't a smart enough player to fit in with the spurs style of play. The years we had Nazr there were different issues we were having when we began to struggle.

And Splitter whom I like so far, just couldn't stay healthy throughout the season, and with Pop having to stick with an offensive minded team strategy when you would see Splitter out there, sure he looked great out on the defensive end but he was a log jam on the offensive end a lot of the time.

This coming season if there is one, expect the team strategy to fall back more on defense. I think neal sticks with the team, bonner is iffy, but if he stays is a decent contributor in the regular season. Hill and Blair are the most expendable pieces you have on the roster to bring in new talent along with a two for one trade with another spurs player.

Really the issue this year was not enough defense. Last year was lack of shot makers on offense.

People whine about the front office, but I think they did a decent job considering the deficiencies they were looking to work on last off season.

What a crock of bull. Same old excuses rehashed by popsucker #5108

Splitter was not a "logjam", in fact he scored more points per minute than the legendary Bonner. And Mahinmi hardly ever got an opportunity to get better (once he was healthy).

[Obstructed_View]

It's really too bad that Mahinmi wasn't smart enough to fit into the Spurs' style of play, which is apparently to miss rotations and fail to guard the paint or the perimeter.

[barbacoataco]

After reading through this thread I see that everyone is focusing on the Spurs' lack of size at the C/PF position with Bonner and Blair making up half of their frontcourt.

IMO another big problem was their lack of a defensive specialist perimeter player. Memphis had Tony Allen and Battier. The Spurs never replaced Bowen and decided that they didn't need a defensive specialist. Remember who used to SHUT DOWN Zack Randolph? BOWEN. I know that Bruce Bowen's don't grow on trees, but they could have brought in someone.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

last season, the biggest issue the spurs had was little help outside with the jumpers. Defense seemed decent enough to compete with the playoff contenders last year. But we couldn't do squat on the offensive end. They brought in some shooters from signing and the draft.

This year, we had the scoring from outside and players that could create for themselves when we hit the usual spurs shooting funks. The defense became and issue halfway into the season.

Ian just isn't a smart enough player to fit in with the spurs style of play. The years we had Nazr there were different issues we were having when we began to struggle.

And Splitter whom I like so far, just couldn't stay healthy throughout the season, and with Pop having to stick with an offensive minded team strategy when you would see Splitter out there, sure he looked great out on the defensive end but he was a log jam on the offensive end a lot of the time.

This coming season if there is one, expect the team strategy to fall back more on defense. I think neal sticks with the team, bonner is iffy, but if he stays is a decent contributor in the regular season. Hill and Blair are the most expendable pieces you have on the roster to bring in new talent along with a two for one trade with another spurs player.

Really the issue this year was not enough defense. Last year was lack of shot makers on offense.

People whine about the front office, but I think they did a decent job considering the deficiencies they were looking to work on last off season.

I agree 100 percent. Last year posters were complaining we lacked the athleticism and offensive power to keep with Phoenix and those type of teams. So the Spurs extended RJ's contact, added Neal and Anderson plus relied on development of Blair to give us athleticism/offensive power we needed. Spurs were also able to finally sign Tiago Splitter which would give us some size. Unfortunately, with Tiago's injuries kept him off the court for the first part of the season and he was unable to contribute as much as we had hoped this year. While I prefer that Tiago have played more minutes I still think that Pop would have used Tiago against the Lakers (as they seemed to be the favorites this year and an eventual matchup).

I can bet that not one single individual would have considered the Grizzlies to be such a force these playoffs or Randolph such a dominating power forward and the best player in this years playoffs (even moreso than Dirk). And now that the Grizzlies have knocked us out of the playoffs seems like everyone now wants us to 'big' to compete with them and other big teams although there are very few of those type teams except for the Lakers now. Think about it are there even teams that have a PF/C combination as good as Grizzlies? Lakers frontline is not as dominating as had been and seem to be playing average this year, Celtics are no longer the same team several years ago, Heat are thin on the inside and more of a perimeter team. OKC added Perkins but their stars are Durant and Westbrook. Mavericks are big but Dirk is more of a perimeter player and Dice played well against him last year.

So I think that the FO did a good job of preparing the Spurs for this season. Do I think they could have done things differently? Yes, but hindsight is 20-20. Hopefully during the offseason Spurs can sign a big to take Dice's role and hopefully Splitter can remain injury free and become a starter. He looks like he could be a 13/9 type of player.

Spurs just need a few adjustments and they have a chance of reaching the Finals just like any other team in the West. Its fair to say that their is no dominating team in the Western Conference anymore.

[pancakechef]

Everyone needs to get something straight:

First 60 we played small and won ALL THE TIME.

The problem was, we abandoned that SCORE SCORE SCORE mentality during the playoffs. We had a fine group. But like last year, we were mismanaged. This has been the problem the past few years. Pop isnt a good coach PERIOD. Hes shown it with arguably the best roster in the NBA just completely misplayed EVERYONE

[TJastal]

I agree 100 percent. Last year posters were complaining we lacked the athleticism and offensive power to keep with Phoenix and those type of teams. So the Spurs extended RJ's contact, added Neal and Anderson plus relied on development of Blair to give us athleticism/offensive power we needed. Spurs were also able to finally sign Tiago Splitter which would give us some size. Unfortunately, with Tiago's injuries kept him off the court for the first part of the season and he was unable to contribute as much as we had hoped this year. While I prefer that Tiago have played more minutes I still think that Pop would have used Tiago against the Lakers (as they seemed to be the favorites this year and an eventual matchup).

I can bet that not one single individual would have considered the Grizzlies to be such a force these playoffs or Randolph such a dominating power forward and the best player in this years playoffs (even moreso than Dirk). And now that the Grizzlies have knocked us out of the playoffs seems like everyone now wants us to 'big' to compete with them and other big teams although there are very few of those type teams except for the Lakers now. Think about it are there even teams that have a PF/C combination as good as Grizzlies? Lakers frontline is not as dominating as had been and seem to be playing average this year, Celtics are no longer the same team several years ago, Heat are thin on the inside and more of a perimeter team. OKC added Perkins but their stars are Durant and Westbrook. Mavericks are big but Dirk is more of a perimeter player and Dice played well against him last year.

So I think that the FO did a good job of preparing the Spurs for this season. Do I think they could have done things differently? Yes, but hindsight is 20-20. Hopefully during the offseason Spurs can sign a big to take Dice's role and hopefully Splitter can remain injury free and become a starter. He looks like he could be a 13/9 type of player.

Spurs just need a few adjustments and they have a chance of reaching the Finals just like any other team in the West. Its fair to say that their is no dominating team in the Western Conference anymore.

Popsucker please.

We've heard the "Splitter missed training camp" excuse already. At least come up with some new material.

And damn near any frontline combo would have looked great against Bonner & Blair. Randolph and Gasol are big and physical, but in no way do I consider them insurmountable. The thunder already showed how you can beat them in game 2 (which is to match them in size, length, & physicality) and will go on to win the series using the same tactic. You see, while Pop was busy stroking Bonner's the thunder were making moves in preparation for the playoffs that are paying off now. Maybe Pop noticed, but I doubt it.

Grizz were just too good.. we couldn't do anything, Pop did all he could ... wahhh..

[rmt]

Splitter was not injured that much. If pre-season were so important, why did Pop play Novak and Green ahead of Splitter? I remember some games (even with trash time) that Splitter was literally the last person off the bench - that's behind Novak, Green, and Quinn.

Pop had absolutely no excuse for not integrating Splitter. There was plenty of time and it wouldn't have taken that long as he's played pro ball and as evidenced by his play in the playoffs.

It's no coincidence that the first 2 teams to be eliminated (Spurs, ORL) are heavily reliant on 3 pt shooting which is one of the easiest things to shut down in the playoffs. Live by the 3, die by the 3. The only consistent thing that can be relied on night after night is defense and Pop/Spurs moved away from that by re-signing Bonner. The debacle of re-signing RJ is sheer arrogance - that Pop's system is so complicated that it takes players a year to learn the system. Any fool could have seen that RJ didn't fit this team (and still won't even after x years).

[pancakechef]

BLAIR has more steals/ deflected passes/ aggressive than McDyess

His instincts are better, AND he rebounds better when it counts.

This is confirmed VIA the EYE-TEST as well as statistics (PER, EFF, and stats per 48)

Thanks,

[pancakechef]

BLAIR has more steals/ deflected passes/ aggressive than McDyess

His instincts are better, AND he rebounds better when it counts.

This is confirmed VIA the EYE-TEST as well as statistics (PER, EFF, and stats per 48)

Thanks,

[TJastal]

BLAIR has more steals/ deflected passes/ aggressive than McDyess

His instincts are better, AND he rebounds better when it counts.

This is confirmed VIA the EYE-TEST as well as statistics (PER, EFF, and stats per 48)

Thanks,

So on a scale of 1-100 what would you give Blair & McDyess for these new important stats you have introduced?

Instinct
Blair -- ?
McDyess -- ?

Rebounding (when it counts)
Blair -- ?
McDyess --?

Aggressive
Blair -- ?
McDyess --?

[SenorSpur]

Everyone needs to get something straight:

First 60 we played small and won ALL THE TIME.

The problem was, we abandoned that SCORE SCORE SCORE mentality during the playoffs. We had a fine group. But like last year, we were mismanaged. This has been the problem the past few years. Pop isnt a good coach PERIOD. Hes shown it with arguably the best roster in the NBA just completely misplayed EVERYONE

Regular season basketball and playoff basketball are TOTALLY different. If playing small were a good strategy, the Suns, Warriors and Knicks would've all won les by now.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Regular season basketball and playoff basketball are TOTALLY different. If playing small were a good strategy, the Suns, Warriors and Knicks would've all won les by now.

The Heat and Mavs seem to be doing well and they are mostly jumpshooting/perimeter teams.

[barbacoataco]

The Heat and Mavs seem to be doing well and they are mostly jumpshooting/perimeter teams.

The Heat have Wade and LJ. Those are two of the top 10 offensive players in the NBA, if not top 5. They both drive to the basket and are impossible to defend 1 on 1.

The Mavs have Dirk, who is a one of a kind player with a fadeaway jumper that can't be stopped. The Mavs also are a better defensive team than they get credit for.

[DMC]

Flawed logic, because when you have to make a cake you go get eggs.

see: the kicker...

Second, the analogy needs tweaking: Pop is a professional cake baker who cooks cakes from a boxed cake mix. For years people have said that Pop is a great chef. He tells people that he just reads the back of the box and lets the ingredients do all the real work. One day, for a big event, he spontaneously decides to start making cakes using radishes instead of eggs. He has eggs in the fridge, but he just uses radishes. When people say the cakes taste like , he says that the ingredients need to be fresher or just makes a smart-assed statement about how the person asking the question isn't a chef. He goes and buys the most expensive radishes he can find, selling only radish cakes while his business goes down the tubes.

tl;dr

[portnoy1]

2. Blair averaged 21.4 minutes (mostly playing with Duncan) this year and he doesn't have a jump shot. Duncan and the perimeter players can take the jump shots. Surely the Spurs can get by with only 1 player on the floor not being able to hit a jump shot. Besides, MEM (and LA if we had gotten there) clogged the lane and Parker didn't get in the lane to dish out (m)any jump shots.

Spurs are not going to trade TP or get a pure PG.

You missed and supported my point all in one post. Blair started, yes. But Ginobili started with Blair and hooked him up on the pick n rolls. Blair and Ginobili have enough chemistry to work together even though he cant shoot. When Blair was benched and wasnt playing with Manu as much, his production dropped and then his minutes did as well later on.

About Parker not being able to drive.....Thats my point, it offset the way the Spurs offense ran. Thats why he kept forcing the issue, because if he didnt get into the lane that takes away his layups, and uncontested 3pt shots(basically their entire offense). As for the wins, I only remember the LA wins. Parker got out in transition, and on mismatches with gasol he would drive. stop. and pull up for a 16ft shot, which he was knocking down with consistency that game.

Never said they "WOULD" trade Parker. My point is that it would be easier getting a pure PG, and filling defensive holes properly after that. As opposed to the alternative, finding 2 insanely versatile players. 1) a shot-blocking and rebounding 7-0 C/F that can shoot well from beyond 18ft and move his feet well on defense. 2) a top 10 wing-defender that scores 13pts a night(mostly from the 3pt line) but can slash, post and rebound well when nessecary.