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Top 20, maybe top 15. Not top 10. He can't win without Phil and a All-Star big.
Imagine Kobe is Artest, and the top 10 list is the hoop ...
Top 20, maybe top 15. Not top 10. He can't win without Phil and a All-Star big.
those rosters arent even close. and , compare the role players.
the only one worth keeping was Lamar and maybe Sasha. Either the Laker roster were too young or too old. lol @ vlade and mckie
Based on what I saw these last 4 games, no he isn't. He is the most overhyped player of all-time imo.
Spurs fan are classy but sure are dumbassesAlso, Pippen's team actually made the playoffs.
He sucked this year, yes. But doesnt mean he is over hyped. He is hyped cuz of his accolades, which is well deserve.
Without him Shaq wouldn't of 3 peated...guaranteed. How we forget how dominant he was in his prime. He was also the main guy for his B2B...
Watch his clutch performances in the playoffs ...yes he has had his failures but a lot of the 'top 25' players have as well.
It's ridiculous to me. I can post career stats, career playoff stats, and honors/awards/accolades, and it's decisively in Kobe's favor. Kobe's league MVP and two Finals MVPs pretty much ends the debate completely. But even if you want to go deeper, all you can argue is that Scottie was a better defender, more versatile. Kobe even has Pippen beat out in PER and Win Shares/48 (for all the basketball stats geeks) in both the regular season and in the playoffs.
I wouldn't say Pippen is anywhere close to in the conversation as greatest defender of all time, but you're en led to think that if you wish. Being more unselfish doesn't translate into being better.
As for 1993-94 Pippen and 2004-05 Kobe, Scottie did a better job, I guess. But if you want to get into who had a better team around him, you have to also take into consideration the compe ion in the league. Pippen led that Bulls team farther than Kobe did his Lakers. But Pippen was also in a league and, more importantly, in a conference much weaker in 1993-94 than Kobe was in 2004-05.
Scottie was a better defender, more unselfish. I don't think there's even the slightest bit of an argument to prove he was the better player than Kobe. I do think it's ridiculous.
Also...if Pippen is really greather then Kobe....then Jordan was one lucky mother er to be paired up with a TOP 10 player right?
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Kareem
Olajuwon
Chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Isiah Thomas
Shaq
So no
Lol Isiah Thomas
And I'm an Isiah fan and defender
I wouldn't go as far as to say Odom destroys Horace Grant given Grant averaged 15 11 and was an AS in 1994 (assuming you're talking about 1994).
I don't know
Scoring 25 pts in one quarter on 1 leg vs a stingy Lakers defense in the Finals is pretty awesome
And the little man gave Magic, Jordan and Bird fits
barea gave kobe fits..thus barea = top 50.
Comparing Kobe to Magic/Jordan/Bird?
Really?
yah, he is top 10 for sure. If Barkley, the biggest Kobe hater, can admit he is top 6, then he is definitely top 10.
Somewhere in top 5(for now at least most non-trolls would rank him in there), same calibur as Magic, Kareem, Bird, etc. It's hard to rank players by #2, #3, #4, #5... so I just usually group them by tiers.
The only player that is definitively above Kobe is MJ, the margin is close but is not surmountable at this point in his career. I would be hard-pressed to say anyone else has had a better career than Kobe, and Kobe has at LEAST 3+ years left in the NBA playing at a high level, where he will have a good chance at another ring. You have to realize EVERY single superstar has had terrible performances, disappointments, and opportunities to win more. The reason why Kobe gets dissed on by so much here is because he is the ONLY player in today's game that is in the same calibur as the elite all-time greats. It's easy to examine all the negatives in a player, especially when its happening today.
The fact of the matter is when Kobe's career is over, stuff like getting swept by the Mavericks isn't going to be something that's mentioned when people are trying to compare him with other all-time greats. The guy has 5 rings, and won 2 with Pau Gasol as his 2nd best player... no other top 5 player has won a championship without AT LEAST 1 hall-of-famer. He will have a good shot at the all-time scoring leader accomplishment, and like I said earlier has a good chance at winning another ring(s) with a better player next to him.
He still has the opportunity to cement himself at the #2 spot, unlike any other person currently in the top 10. He's the best player of this generation. He's already high on the list, and people haven't even had time to reflect back on the greatness of his career, which is saying something.
I have said it before, Kobe is being argued as a top10 player right now because he plays in LA. Shaq was ranked as a top 4 big man, and some say top 3 back in the early 00s (Behind Wilt and Jabbar, maybe Russell). He is now obviously ranked behind the likes of Jabbar, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, and maybe Duncan.
Magic is numero in the mid-80s, but now he is generally regarded as a top 4 to 7 player (behind Jordan who wasn't on the map back then, Wilt, Russel, Jabbar).
The same is going to happen to Kobe. He is widely touted as top 10 now, but in 5 years, 10 years, he would fall back to a top 15 talent, where he should be.
Players I would rank above Kobe:
Wilt
Russell
Jabbar
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Moses Malone
Big O
Players I would rank with Kobe:
West
Havlicek
Dr. J
Players who may have a chance of surpassing Kobe:
Lebron
Durant (long shot)
Wade (long shot, mainly because of his injury issues)
Rose (way too early to tell)
Players better than Kobe imo (no order)
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Russell
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan
Wilt
Dr. J
Oscar
Moses
KG
Pippen
Isiah
Its hard for me to put him in the Top 10 list with the way he's been going down on elimination games.
I gave him a pass in 2006 when the Lakers choked en route to a blowout loss against the Suns. Around 2008, his fans gave us their usual alibis why the Lakers not only managed to choke a 20+ point lead in game 2 but also ended the series in a humiliating fashion (39 point loss) most in NBA Finals history, mind you. Kobe btw, was non exitent on both games just an fyi, some leader, right?
Well, the series against the Mavs proved my accusations all along. Kobe's leadership and killer instinct has been exagerrated all this time. The Lakers were actually a much better team this season but he allowed his team to not only get swept but he also sent Phil Jackson to an embarassing exit.
I'm sorry, this sounds like Im kicking the Kobe when he's down but Jackson raised you as a player the least you could do is go out there and play hard nose basketball for 48 minutes.
You aint kicking Kobe when he's down. You're just implying that Jordan needed another top 15 player as his sidekick to win rings.
Curious where you would put Pau Gasol, be careful what you say, cuz you already know where i am going with this.
Lol. That's where most trolls rank him.
No Kobe hate here, I have him 9 on my personal list, but he simply doesn't have the resume of a Kareem, Magic, Russell, Bird, much less Jordan. Those players, Russell aside (he's hard to pin down with stats, since most of his impact came on the defensive end), have better overall playoff stats, more individual awards (MVPs, Finals MVPs) and won more championships as the lead dog on their respective teams.
People saying Pippen is better than Kobe are just foolish. Nothing supports that. To me, Kobe is top 10, but I don't think there is an argument that can keep him out of the top 20. To me he is top 10.
In no particular order:
MJ
Bill Rus
Wilt
magic
kareem
Bird
hakeem
shaq
duncan
Kobe
I don't think an argument can be made for anyone I have listed above him, but to me anyone not on the list, Kobe can be argued for, for the most part.
You mean accolades like the 1st team all-nba defensive honor he just got. He has not deserved that honor the past few years.
I have him at #9 (before Hakeem) based on the sheer entirety of his career. If you're talking about better player, no way do I choose him over Hakeem. If you're talking about who I'd rather build a franchise around, I'd probably pick Robinson, KG and Moses Malone too before Kobe.
He's definitely Top 10. Bottom rung.
But if he was still a Charlotte Hornet, then he'd be a spot or two above wherever you put Allen Iverson on your All-Time list, tbh.
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