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I wonder where you got that crazy idea from.
Uh... You conviently leave out the other 8 guys and coach who also left the Cav's for various reasons. Go figure. So the team that wins the best record in the league is a horrible supporting cast? You sure picked them to win! Twice!Lebron's previous team was one of the worst teams in NBA history this year, their first without him..it's his fault they lost to the ECF champs that were 1 quarter away from winning the le..
It's legendary that he could even take that team to the Finals and ECFs..it's amazing, when you look at how bad the Cavs were without him, this season..
Wade lost to the Celtics with a horrible supporting cast, so did Lebron..now that they both have decent supporting casts, which is all they need, they're winning..
As the Lakers showed this year, particularly Gasol, a supporting cast can make a star player look better, or worse, than he actually is..
Nice try.
I wonder where you got that crazy idea from.
So its all about points? So you are saying Kobe is the best closer in the game?
Why isnt wade #1 and bron #2 on that list. Hoboy is your master statboy. what gives?
I watched enough Heat games this year to see that they ran much better in the closing minutes with the ball in Wades hands regargless of who scored. Apparently you dont remember the first half of the season when Bron choked game after game. Not until they handed the ball to wade down the stretch di the team start winning close games. Look at your stats too. Wade was assisted on his points 5% lest than LBJ meaning he was better individually as well. Lebron just happend to be the receipiant of wades brilliance.
watch the games!
Of course. LeBron scores more points on a better rate, gets more rebounds and dishes out more assists in crunch time, but Wade is the one who performed better.
The quickest way to tell when somebody loses an argument is when they use "Watch the games!!!!" to back up their point.
And you had the nerve to act like my position was crazy.
He was awesome tonight. I am glad they won. That wasnt my point. I believe Wade to be the better closer on the team over the year. Closing isnt just scoring points. Not like Lebron doesnt get the most ridiculous calls driving the lane either. Oh look, most free throws of em all.
If it was you would all right now be, according to your stat sheet, saying Kobe is the best closer in the NBA this year.
All the stat sheets have different criteria for what "closing" is. And as with most stats, while important, they only show only a portion of the big picture.
But hey... nice of all you guys to argue Kobe is the best closer. Thanks Red.
Cobbler doesn't do proof. He only judges things on how people treat him and what his eyes see every once and a while.
lol dumbass
I also mention the fact that LeBron shoots at a higher percentage, gets more rebounds and more assists, but, since you don't actually have a response, you keep ignoring everything but points scored.
And even if Kobe was the best closer in the NBA, that would have jack to do with the comparison between Wade and LeBron.
But keep ignoring everything but points, because it's clear that you have no defense now.
Whats the criteria? 5 mins left neither team ahead by more than 5. I could no doubt show you many sortable lists where the positions change with the criteria.
No mention of wade having double the blocks of Bron. Or how about the 1 less turneover. Or close to DOUBLE the 3pt %. That list is sorted by points and if you are going to claim bron is a better closer based on this list, then you are admitting that Kobe trumps him as hes right there at the top. And as stupd as +/- is, it has more relevance in the last 5 mins where starters are usually playing aginst each other. ohhh look Wade trumps bron there too. '
dumbass
Please, show me.
And?No mention of wade having double the blocks of Bron.
Or how about the 1 less turneover.I'd take a better field goal percentage, a better free throw rate, and a free throw percentage that's ten points higher over a better three point percentage.Or close to DOUBLE the 3pt %.
lol going back to points scored and Kobe Bryant when I already showed you how stupid your argument is.That list is sorted by points and if you are going to claim bron is a better closer based on this list, then you are admitting that Kobe trumps him ause hes right there at the top.
And as stupd as +/- is, it has more relevance in the last 5 mins where starters are usually playing aginst each other. ohhh look Wade trumps bron there too. '
You are desperately trying to find something--anything--that proves that Wade is a better closer than LeBron.
Just admit that you don't know what you are talking about. Now you're just repeating yourself and completely ignoring my points.
He could have sorted it by FG% to have James above both Kobe and Wade.
Thank you for making my point as well.
You can sort it by 3p%, Stls, Blocks, AsitD (less being better), turnovers (lbb) and wade beats out bron. You do 2p%, assists, reb, FT you get Lebron.
My point was there are a dozen ways you can sort this and they leapfrog each other depending on the stats. Its not all about scoring as he posted with his little red lines showing how much higher lebron is. If that was the case then Kobe is at the top of the list and i know damn well none of you would say hes the best closer this year. Not even close. Different coaches and or observers no doubt place importance on sepcific areas where they excel or falter. Add to that all the different criteria for taking the stats and you would have lists upon lists.
My point was that over this year, Wade has been the better closer for Miami and I stand by it. They are both very good and if Bron went to the rim every time it wouldnt be close. But he doesnt, and thats why the Heat played better down the stretch this year with wade handling the ball late.
And again, you are ing wrong.
LeBron scored more points on a higher field goal percentage. He grabbed more rebounds. He got more assists. He shot more free throws. He had a better free throw percentage.
Wade had more steals, blocks and a higher 3p%.
You trying to equate the two is laughable.
You trying to shoehorn Kobe into the discussion is laughable.
You have no argument.
The end.
Hoboy must be really spinning his head here. He so wants to toss out all the advanced stats showing his boy being the better of the two yet he has already admitted Wade was #1 to Brons 2.
I also find it amusing that you tried to claim that the Heat's offense runs smoother with the ball in Wade's hands, but when that was proven to be false, you then tried to use Wade's steals and blocks as proof instead.
He shot 2 more times over the 5 mins. their fg% was .04 difference. WOW
In crunch time you dont think steal and blocks are important? WOW
Lets look at 3pt shooting. James again took 2 more shots over the 5 mins. He made a whopping 23% which is .19 difference from wades. BIG WOW
Yes Lebron gets the rebounds and assists.
Yes Lebron gets bailed out by the refs even more than DWhistle.
Over the 5 mins if you want to look at the shooting %. Add em up smart guy. Lebron took 34.6 shots to Dwades 31.1 meaning 3.5 shots more in 5 mins. Scoring total: Lebron - 29 pts Wade - 27.3 Hmmmmmmm 3.5 shots for 1.7 points! WOW The difference is that Bron goes to the line more. I would imagine he's in the top few in the league with the calls I have seen handed him. So the shooting % argument just doesnt fly. It could of if Bron would have hit his 3's late. But hey, lets just discount the 3's and the vast shooting % difference there because if we factor that in your whole" he scored more points on a higher %" it results in nothing but pure bull . Nice try!
Look, they are both great palyers. So is Kobe and I only brought him up to show your stupidity with your chart that shows lebron above wade. You tried to pull it off as if scoring is the key and thats the one stat on there that seperates wade and LBJ most. If its about scoring, it's Kobe and we all know he wanst the best closer this year.
They are very close, no doubt. From the games I have watched, and I have seen quite a few, the Heat play better down the stretch if the ball is in Wades hand and he initiates the offense. Apparently you didnt read all the articles, coaches, and analysts saying just the very same thing all year long.
Move along...
Last edited by cobbler; 05-12-2011 at 01:24 AM.
Not amusing. I still believe that. You proved nothing. In fact, bron needed help from others 5% more than Dwade did. Dwade created his own better.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Im done with you... toodles!
lol hobbler taking the high ramp...
Talk about not knowing when to give up.
And notice that he STILL keeps trying to say that I'm using scoring as the only criteria, when I have repeatedly stated that LeBron excels in other areas, too.
Red: "LeBron scored more points on a higher field goal percentage"
Talk about not knowing when to give up.
And notice that he STILL keeps trying to say that I'm using scoring as the only criteria, when I have repeatedly stated that LeBron excels in other areas, too.
Lebron took 34.6 shots to Dwades 31.1
pts scored: Lebron - 29 pts Wade - 27.3
1.7 more points on 3.5 shots.
when you add the 2pt and 3pt (which you just blow off) Wade is more efficient.
The difference between the two is the free throws. Simple as that. Your comment above is not true. Sorry.
ANd of course LBJ excells in other areas Like rebounds and assists. Hey, Wade is real close to those numbers as well and he leads in a few like blocks and steals.
I stated above that they are very close did I not? I believe like most of the analysts and basketball people have stated over the entire year, that Miami runs smoother with the ball in Wades hands down the stretch. If Bron stopped shooting 3's and drove his numbers would distance him from Wade. He doesn't and thats why Wade gets the nod.
Geeeeeez go review the games. Rewatch the post game interviews and analysis. It's not breaking news.
Last edited by cobbler; 05-12-2011 at 01:44 PM.
Merely was a comfort thing.
Without Lebron (last night) Wade is going back to Boston for Game 6 ...
Correct.
Okay.Lebron took 34.6 shots to Dwades 31.1
You're forgetting something.pts scored: Lebron - 29 pts Wade - 27.3
Still forgetting something.1.7 more points on 3.5 shots.
I didn't blow off 3 pointers. You are just trying to make the difference in 3 point shooting more significant than it is, even though you neglect to mention that Wade averages 6.8 points off 3's compared to LeBron's 5.2.when you add the 2pt and 3pt (which you just blow off) Wade is more efficient.
Ah, there it is.The difference between the two is the free throws. Simple as that. Your comment above is not true. Sorry.
Sorry, you can't just ignore free throw shooting. That makes my argument that LeBron scores more points more efficiently correct.
LeBron averages almost nine more free throws than Wade in clutch situations, and he shoots them at percentage that is 11% higher. That more than makes up for his poor 3p%.
But Wade is behind LeBron in those areas. And for a guy whom you claim should have the ball in his hands at the end of games, I fail to see how blocks and steals factor in. Wade doesn't need the ball in his hands to get steals or blocks. Well, obviously, to get a steal, he does, but that's not running the offense.ANd of course LBJ excells in other areas Like rebounds and assists. Hey, Wade is real close to those numbers as well and he leads in a few like blocks and steals.
I stated above that they are very close did I not? I believe like most of the analysts and basketball people have stated over the entire year, that Miami runs smoother with the ball in Wades hands down the stretch. If Bron stopped shooting 3's and drove his numbers would distance him from Wade. He doesn't and thats why Wade gets the nod.
--now you're acting like it's too close to call and can go either way.
Your insistence to still defend your position even though you know you're wrong, is amusing.Geeeeeez go review the games. Rewatch the post game interviews and analysis. It's not breaking news.
So, let's review:
--You say that Wade has been a better closer than LeBron and that the offense runs smoother with the ball in Wade's hands. In fact, you act as if it's ridiculous to state otherwise.
--I show you evidence to the contrary.
--You try to ignore everything but ppg, even though LeBron is better in other areas as well.
--I tell you about LeBron's superior rebounding and passing.
--You continue to focus on ppg, ignoring everything else.
--I again inform you that LeBron is better in shooting, getting to the line, rebounding and passing.
--You try to focus on Wade's superior 3p%, turnover%, asst% and blocks.
--I tell you that LeBron more than makes up for inferior numbers in those areas by having superior numbers in regards to ppg, fg%, free throw rate, assist rate, rebounding rate, and ft%.
--You try to focus on 3p% and completely ignore free throw rates, because that of course completely destroys your argument. You also change your tune and claim that LeBron and Wade are close in regards to closing ability.
--I show you that the difference in free throw rates and ft% more than makeup up for LeBron's inferior 3p%.
Oh, and you brought up Kobe in a conversation that had nothing to do with him and used the "Watch the games because I have no evidence!" argument.
So, what now? You can't keep trying to claim that Wade is just as efficient scoring wise, because you would then have to explain why free throws shouldn't count.
Please, tell me why you think the ball should be in the hands of the more inefficient scorer and passer down the stretch.
Also, LeBron does drive to hole. That's why he shoots nine more free throws than Wade in the clutch. Why do you keep ignoring that?
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