How long do you give the Durant-Westbrook tandem before they break up?

[Muser]

lol hate on a personal level.

[jag]

Eh, I don't know.I agree that Rose is a better and much willing passer but I think Westbrook is a better defender so it pretty much even things out a bit. one thing going for Rose at the moment is his at ude and he does have pretty good head above his shoulders, Westbrook not so much that's why his flaws are magnified. I saw plenty of Rose this year and tbh, I'm just not impressed to a point where You can clearly put him above Westbrook or any other PG for that matter. Just like Westbrook, Rose has been pretty bad in the playoffs efficiency wise and he also made some horrible decisions that has been costly for the Bulls (see Game 2 of ECF)

Not sure how much importance you place on Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) but Derrick Rose shows better in that area with a 103 rating, while Westbrook has a 107 rating.

Keep in mind that Rose is giving that kind of effort on the defensive end while also being the #1 scoring option on the offensive end. He's also facing defenses that are tailored to shutting him down. Westbrook has the advantage of playing defenses tailored to shutting down Durant. With those things being considered, Rose still has a better Effective FG% as well as a better True Shooting %.

Westbrook: True Shooting %: 53.8 Eff FG%: 45.4
Rose: True Shooting %: 55.0 Eff FG% 48.5

[Kyle Orton]

individual defensive rating is a horrible stat largely based off how the good team you're on is defensively/a bunch of other weird things. According to defensive rating 2007 Amare = 2007 Bowen on defense.

[jag]

individual defensive rating is a horrible stat largely based off how the good team you're on is defensively/a bunch of other weird things. According to defensive rating 2007 Amare = 2007 Bowen on defense.

It's difficult to use DRating to compare players of different positions. That becomes apparent when you take into account the type of players being guarded. Bowen would guard the premier scorers in the Leauge. Amare, not so much.

With players of the same position it becomes a little bit easier (especially PGs and PFs/Centers). While Rose and Westbrook play in different conferences, both conferences have solid players at the PG position. Also, PGs are almost always forced into guarding opposing PGs. That's not the case with many SGs, SFs and combo players. Bowen would go from guarding Jason Terry to Dirk. Same with Sefolosha.

DRating isn't so blurry when it comes to comparing two Point Guards with similar athleticism, size and playing styles.

[ChrisRichards]

Not sure how much importance you place on Defensive Rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) but Derrick Rose shows better in that area with a 103 rating, while Westbrook has a 107 rating.

Keep in mind that Rose is giving that kind of effort on the defensive end while also being the #1 scoring option on the offensive end. He's also facing defenses that are tailored to shutting him down. Westbrook has the advantage of playing defenses tailored to shutting down Durant. With those things being considered, Rose still has a better Effective FG% as well as a better True Shooting %.

Westbrook: True Shooting %: 53.8 Eff FG%: 45.4
Rose: True Shooting %: 55.0 Eff FG% 48.5

I'm going to take that individual defensive rating with a grain of salt and as Kyle has pointed out, team defense plays a large role in it. It's no surprise Rose ranks pretty good considering the Bulls are a great defensive team, so good actually they're able to mask Boozers defensive deficiency.


I'm not going to say that Westbrook is leaps ahead of Rose defensively, but I like Westbrooks defensive instinct more. Keep in mind when he was in UCLA, defense was one of his primary strengths.

[Kyle Orton]

It's difficult to use DRating to compare players of different positions. That becomes apparent when you take into account the type of players being guarded. Bowen would guard the premier scorers in the Leauge. Amare, not so much.

With players of the same position it becomes a little bit easier (especially PGs and PFs/Centers). While Rose and Westbrook play in different conferences, both conferences have solid players at the PG position. Also, PGs are almost always forced into guarding opposing PGs. That's not the case with many SGs, SFs and combo players. Bowen would go from guarding Jason Terry to Dirk. Same with Sefolosha.

DRating isn't so blurry when it comes to comparing two Point Guards with similar athleticism, size and playing styles.

I'll agree to disagree but I actually agree with you about Westbrook's D. In 2010, he was a great 1 on 1 defender who never did anything stupid on that end and never took unnecessary risks. These days, he goes for re ed steals, is constantly out of position, and is almost like Steve Nash when he's playing defense where as it seems like he's thinking more about getting back on offense than he is about getting the stop.

[jag]

I'll agree to disagree but I actually agree with you about Westbrook's D. In 2010, he was a great 1 on 1 defender who never did anything stupid on that end and never took unnecessary risks. These days, he goes for re ed steals, is constantly out of position, and is almost like Steve Nash when he's playing defense where as it seems like he's thinking more about getting back on offense than he is about getting the stop.

That's pretty much what it comes down to. You'd think Rose would be more worried about getting back on offense, but it's actually the other way around. This wasn't so much a debate about either player being great defensively, it was a debate about which player is better than the other defensively.

DRating has its flaws, but it's objective. Regardless, here are FG% they allowed opposing players over the course of the season:

Derrick Rose - 37.6%
Westbrook - 42.6%

The Bulls are better defensively so maybe isolation plays are a better indicator of individual defensive performance. Isolation FG% allowed:

Derrick Rose - 32.9%
Westbrook - 38.3%

Both actually have good numbers defensively. With their size and athleticism they probably should have those kind of numbers. But there's really no doubt who the better performer is on defense. And that's surprising considering the offensive load that Rose has to carry.

[ChrisRichards]

Not disagreeing with you JaG but have you seen Kobe's defensive numbers against SG's this year? Someone pulled up a stat in RealGm not too long ago defending Kobe's 1st team Defense team selection and IIRC he ranked first among SG's when it comes to opponent FG%.

[jag]

Not disagreeing with you JaG but have you seen Kobe's defensive numbers against SG's this year? Someone pulled up a stat in RealGm not too long ago defending Kobe's 1st team Defense team selection and IIRC he ranked first among SG's when it comes to opponent FG%.

What stat would you like to go by? Stats can lie, especially when you find conflicting stats. But every stat I've seen shows Rose is a better defensive player than Westbrook. At some point you have to realize where these stats actually come from.

Rose's team defense is better. Rose's individual defense is better. Kobe has nothing to do with this argument. This is a head-to-head comparison between two players.

[ChrisRichards]

I don't like to go by stats when comparing two players defensively. There are far too many variables there not explained in details. Kobe's defensive rating pretty much shows you the inconsistency involving this metrics, that's why I brought him up, I just poked a hole in this defensive rating logic so take it fwiw. You just can't rely on these when it has been proven time and time again that there are too many variables involved to determine it's a fact.

[ALVAREZ6]

Westbrook is as good as Rose, the only reason why people are not complaining about Rose and his atrocious 40% Fg playoff shooting is because he doesn't have a guy like KD in his team. Don't let that media based MVP trophy fool you.

Re .

[ALVAREZ6]

It isn't even worth discussing, not even necessary to debate stats in this case. You just observe the two players and immediately realize Rose is superior. If OKC could magically convince the Bulls that Westbrook is quality, they would trade him for Rose in a heartbeat without even doing statistical analysis, watching film, or any other way they evaluate players.

[Spurtacus]

They need a better coach. Vanilla offense sucks.

[ChrisRichards]

this Rose kid is so overrated. Superior my ass, stfu you .

[Wennington]

this Rose kid is so overrated. Superior my ass, stfu you .

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