lol jump in your delorean, hit 88 and go back 2 years and maybe he'll read this reply
Here's the power lines that will give you the 1.1 GWatts also. The two wire Pacific DC Intertie carry as much as 3.1 GWatts. Just hit your 88 MPH here on Highway 197, in Oregon.
Google map Street View 500KV power line from The Dalles Or, to Los Angeles CA
Originaly posted by ChumpDumper
Wild Cobra, boutons already posted the link to one article. Here is another. That gonna do it for ya?Of course there is. You think speculation doesn't exist and never has.
You're simply wrong. It's not my fault that you can't understand the concept.
U.S. sues oil traders for price manipulation
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission accuses two well-known traders and two trading firms owned by Norwegian billionaire John Fredriksen of making $50 million by squeezing markets in 2008.
May 25, 2011
U.S. regulators launched one of the biggest ever crackdowns on oil price manipulation Tuesday, suing two well-known traders and two trading firms owned by Norwegian billionaire John Fredriksen for allegedly making $50 million by squeezing markets in 2008.
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission said traders James Dyer of Oklahoma's Parnon Energy and Nick Wildgoose of Europe-based Arcadia Energy amassed large physical positions at a key U.S. trading hub to create the impression of tight supplies that would boost oil prices.
Later, they dumped those barrels back onto the market, causing prices to crash and racking up profits from short positions they had accrued in futures markets, the suit said.
Full article:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0,474795.story
Fabbs, you are a low-life liar.
I acknowledge speculation has an effect. My position is that it is a minor effect compared to supply and demand.
Supply and Demand caused the price to increase roughly 30% (of original value), while the total price more than doubled (over 100% increase).
At least that's what the experts appear to be saying.
Of course, you are right because the speculators are quite often forcibly manipulating supply, so even the speculator's share is techinically supply and demand...
Speculators can act like a dam on a river, slowing the volume of oil. However, at some point, the flow continues. Natural supply and demand is a greater force that those created artificially.
Exxon and Goldman are always lying, but any:
"ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson admitted earlier this month that, according to traditional supply and demand, oil should cost about $60 or $70 per barrel, instead of hovering around $100. Analysts at Goldman Sachs estimated that speculation was adding roughly $27 per barrel earlier this month"
supply and demand is obviously not referring to speculators who have not demand for oil and never take delivery.
"My position is that it is a minor effect compared to supply and demand."
any evidence or just your usual ideological fantasy?
That may not be holding as true today as it has in the past.
Consider:
You are convinced that the price of oil MUST go up. You tell a Really Smart Guy at an investment bank that you want an investment vehicle to take advantage of that.
The investment vehicle is a derivative of some sort that bids on a contract for delivery in say, 1 year.
You wish to hold on to your investment, and the pass-through instrument continues. At the end of that year, the manager sells that contract for delivery, and then buys a new contract.
This keeps that extra demand in the system.
As more and more people start betting that the price of oil will always go up, you will have a constant increase in demand. A self-fulfilling prophecy.
As long as oil keeps going up. (sound familiar? insert "house prices" for "oil")
I think we are seeing the makings of the next global bubble. The underlying supply and demand though, are such that this bubble has a great chance of being sustained for a while, in my opinion.
I expected prices to go up, but not by quite as much as the have recently.
I read that some time ago, but don't recall the $27 figure. I do recall him also saying that prices have to do with the fear of supply disrupts. After all, this is speculations of futures...
"ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson admitted earlier this month that, according to traditional supply and demand, oil should cost about $60 or $70 per barrel, instead of hovering around $100. Analysts at Goldman Sachs estimated that speculation was adding roughly $27 per barrel earlier this month"
WikiLeaks: Saudis often warned U.S. about oil speculators
Enron reduxWhen oil prices hit a record $147 a barrel in July 2008, the Bush administration leaned on Saudi Arabia to pump more crude in hopes that a flood of new crude would drive the price down. The Saudis complied, but not before warning that oil already was plentiful and that Wall Street speculation, not a shortage of oil, was driving up prices.
The Saudis have struck a steady theme for years that something should be done to curb the influence of banks and hedge funds that are speculating on the price of oil, according to diplomatic cables made available to McClatchy by the WikiLeaks website.
The Saudi concerns about speculation have a particular sheen of credibility. Saudi Arabia is the world's largest exporter of oil, serving dozens of clients in addition to the United States. As such, it carefully tracks the trends that drive oil prices, which send it billions of additional dollars with every increase.
A McClatchy investigation earlier this month showed the extent to which financial ins utions now influence the price of oil. Until recently, end users of oil — such as airlines, refineries and other consumer of fuel — accounted for about 70 percent of oil trading as they tried to hedge against price fluctuations.
Today, however, speculators who'll never take possession of a barrel of oil account for that 70 percent of oil futures trading, and the volume of speculative trading has grown fivefold.
more...
Last edited by Capt Bringdown; 05-27-2011 at 03:32 AM.
"July 2008, the Bush administration leaned on Saudi Arabia to pump more crude in hopes that a flood of new crude would drive the price down"
I remember the Saudis saying they had oil to sell but no buyers, and that speculators were setting the price. ie, easy supply did not drive down prices.
"Speculators can act like a dam on a river, slowing the volume of oil"
What pure self-serving, faith-based bull . Speculators never touch the oil, never take delivery. The oil doesn't actually move for them, they only move the price.
This is startlingly true...the loophole-ridden legislation Enron exploited has been left unchanged for all these years.
For anyone who doesn't know about Enron, the entire Smartest Guys in the Room is on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5clNtt7PgM
Saudi warnings about speculators in WikiLeaks:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/2...en-warned.html
I'd like to see that in full context.
They are a member of OPEC, right?
Do you know what determines how much oil they can sell?
By their rules, they could have way more available oil than OPEC allows them to sell.
OK, I read that wikileaks link.
Please notice a few things. It was said speculation causes at least as much rise in oil as supply and demand. I agree to the point that supply and demand affects the immediate price, sold to refineries. Speculation of the future supply and demand dictates the price of crude the spectators are willing to pay, before it makes it to the refineries. That isn't the same as speculators artificially inflating the price.hen the Saudis said they were willing to discount oil, that probably would have been from the market price then. Maybe nobody was willing to pay those prices as speculation light be seeing a downward slope in price. Maybe the quote was an incorrect translation or fabrication since OPEC members can only sell a specific volume in a period of time based on their reserves.
"Please notice a few things"
iow,
"watch me mindread the Saudis and scrute the inscrutable wikikleaks so that my rigid ideological position that oil price are really just supply and demand and all facts to the contrary are bull "
Oil Market Regulator: Consumers Are Paying A ‘Wall Street Speculative Premium’ For Gas
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...ative-premium/
Wow...
Yes! The futures market is driven by speculation.
Speculation of what you can sell the future for. I think you finally got one right!
Problem is, speculators sometime lose their asses because the market doesn't always pay more than they committed themselves to pay. They wouldn't pay higher prices if they didn't believe the market prices would give them profit.
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