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  1. #51
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Its not about space expanding but the universe expanding fool. SMH.
    Why isn't that the same difference?

  2. #52
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    What if our perception of expansion was because we were shrinking instead?
    My eyes nearly rolled out of their sockets.

  3. #53
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    My eyes nearly rolled out of their sockets.
    From a relative perspective, they are one in the same. Without being a God, or the God, how would we know if mass was shrinking, or if space was expanding?

    What can we use as an absolute reference to know which is the truth?

  4. #54
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    From a relative perspective, they are one in the same. Without being a God, or the God, how would we know if mass was shrinking, or if space was expanding?

    What can we use as an absolute reference to know which is the truth?
    Wow.

    Just wow.

    I suggest you start reading modern scientific theory rather than positing rehashed, tired questions on SpursTalk to the annoyance of everyone.

  5. #55
    The Show Must Go On TE's Avatar
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    WC continues proves to be the most ignorant poster on this site.

  6. #56
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    From a relative perspective, they are one in the same. Without being a God, or the God, how would we know if mass was shrinking, or if space was expanding?

    What can we use as an absolute reference to know which is the truth?
    And we could be brains in a vat, all hooked up to a shared simulation. But since there's no way to verify that, there's really no point in bringing it up, since it's completely unfalsifiable.

    However, the universe expanding CAN be falsifiable, if the correct dataset doesn't conform with current theory.

  7. #57
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Then tell me what I missed.
    100+ hours of classes in astrophysics, for starters.

    I think I will wait for the 12 year old to figure it out, and see what *he* says, no offense, but he is far more adept at this than you will ever be.

  8. #58
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    And we could be brains in a vat, all hooked up to a shared simulation. But since there's no way to verify that, there's really no point in bringing it up, since it's completely unfalsifiable.

    However, the universe expanding CAN be falsifiable, if the correct dataset doesn't conform with current theory.
    There is some speculation that there are some aspects of the universe that seem to imitate what we know of advanced computer simulations.

    Namely the quantum effects of probability where we can know either the position of small particles, or their vectors, but not both. (hope I said that right) When we aren't looking or observing, things seem to exist in "in-between" states, and only resolve when we take the time to observe them, ala Schoedinger's cat.

  9. #59
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    From a relative perspective, they are one in the same. Without being a God, or the God, how would we know if mass was shrinking, or if space was expanding?

    What can we use as an absolute reference to know which is the truth?
    We use our observations of the universe. Gather data, and develop out understanding.

    This does not require omniscience. Yet another bad starting assumption on your part.

  10. #60
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Well, we've made one discovery here on our little ST forum. WC has harnessed the incalculable power of a black hole of logic.

  11. #61
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    There is some speculation that there are some aspects of the universe that seem to imitate what we know of advanced computer simulations.

    Namely the quantum effects of probability where we can know either the position of small particles, or their vectors, but not both. (hope I said that right) When we aren't looking or observing, things seem to exist in "in-between" states, and only resolve when we take the time to observe them, ala Schoedinger's cat.
    Oh yeah, I know about that. Quantum physics is a topic I like reading about. And yes, I've heard the thought argument about the likelihood of an of us being simulations.

    My point was just that it's unverifiable, therefore, it's not really science.

  12. #62
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    reading some of the on "heat death" is really ing depressing . . .


  13. #63
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Well, we've made one discovery here on our little ST forum. WC has harnessed the incalculable power of a black hole of logic.
    Well, since nobody was able to explain it in meaningful words, you guys don't understand it any better than I do. I simply would like to see a better explanation, but no one here is capable of that.

    Please notice, I'm not saying the hypothisis/theory is wrong, I'm pointing out other possible holes that you guys cannot plug.

    Get with it. In science, you have to eliminate other possibilities.

  14. #64
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Well, since nobody was able to explain it in meaningful words, you guys don't understand it any better than I do. I simply would like to see a better explanation, but no one here is capable of that.

    Please notice, I'm not saying the hypothisis/theory is wrong, I'm pointing out other possible holes that you guys cannot plug.

    Get with it. In science, you have to eliminate other possibilities.
    You say that as if the scientists studying that with advanced degrees and who are at least as intelligent than you are, have not eliminated or explored those other possibilities.

    If you can, from a layman's perspective, think of these things, it is more than reasonable that the people who study this for decades, i.e. their entire adult professional lives, have certainly thought of those very things.

    Your underlying assumption, i.e. that the scientists haven't accounted for the things you think are "holes" has no supporting evidence, and, worse yet, seems to me to be highly implausible to put it charitably.

    As I said, I will wait for the 12 year old to have a couple of decades to crack this problem.

    I, for one, will not pretend to understand it well enough to criticize it. I leave that kind of "thinking" to twoofers and the like.

  15. #65
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    reading some of the on "heat death" is really ing depressing . . .

    That will happen long long long after we are all dead, and our species has vanished like a fart in a hurricaine.

    Whatever life comes after us will have to deal with that eventuality.

  16. #66
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    That will happen long long long after we are all dead, and our species has vanished like a fart in a hurricaine.

    Whatever life comes after us will have to deal with that eventuality.
    That's even more depressing . . .

  17. #67
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Random, you clearly missed my point.

    I am not disagreeing with the theory that was previously unknown to me.

    However, no one here is able to understand it well enough to debate it past "the experts said..."

    It would really be refreshing if someone could answer those "holes" I ask about.

  18. #68
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Random, you clearly missed my point.

    I am not disagreeing with the theory that was previously unknown to me.

    However, no one here is able to understand it well enough to debate it past "the experts said..."

    It would really be refreshing if someone could answer those "holes" I ask about.
    so if someone claimed to be an expert here, what do you believe would give their expertise more validation than any expert answer that you could google on your own?

  19. #69
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    The whole reason I am skeptical of such ideas is that I believe the characteristics of matter would change if the media that the wave forces resides in, changes.
    Why?

  20. #70
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    The whole reason I am skeptical of such ideas is that I believe the characteristics of matter would change if the media that the wave forces resides in, changes.
    sounds like that media is too liberal for you.

    hey-o

  21. #71
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    The biggest problem is WC doesn't even understand the questions he's asking which are usually full of false premises. And that, of course, usually isn't isolated to questions about cosmology.

  22. #72
    The Wemby Assembly z0sa's Avatar
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  23. #73
    Believe.
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    Once again the notion of the void eludes the ignorant. there is no point in trying to discuss this topic with him.

    The interpretation of field theory by Einstein was by parametrization of real observable values. Real observable values related to one another that correlate with unmistakable precision trump any notion of incredulity of WC.

  24. #74
    Believe.
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    Then their frequency wouldn't decrease as the nonexistent medium expands.

    I see it as possible that this dark energy has an effect. If you notice, I haven't said the idea is impossible. I'm just not convinced.
    Frequency is an inverse function of time. The universe has a time dimension as well that is not static or absolute. Think about it but do not hurt yourself.

  25. #75
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Delivers pizzas, changes parts AND punches holes in astrophysics and theoretical cosmology.

    He does it all, folks!

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