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...and this from a Boston Celtic fan. Not some goty front running Heat fan since 2006.
James would need 3 rings and to catch a case to be in the discussion.
...and this from a Boston Celtic fan. Not some goty front running Heat fan since 2006.
Lebron could win 10 les but if none of them are repeats he will never be better than Kobe in the eyes of lakerfan.
1<5 but he is well on his way ...havent read thread yet ... but im sure it's full of trash on both sides. Lebron will have to at least get 3 or 4 to make OP's point valid, tbh.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 05-29-2011 at 10:51 PM.
But5 i have no problem with Lebron>Kobe if and when that time comes ...all greats should be surpassed even ... even MJ. Mj should be Lebron's goal not, Kobe ...
On a serious note, Lebron needs to win a couple more (approx. 3-4 total) by being the main guy in that starting five.
Kobe won 2 les without a superstar(or hall-of-famer) next to him, and has 5 total rings. Lebron is currently at 0 les. If he wins any les, it will be with a hall-of-fame superstar(Wade), and another all-star player in Bosh. Lebron's current supporting cast and future supporting casts will be as good/if not better than what Kobe ever had. It would take at minimum 3 rings to even put him in the same conversation as Kobe.
This post-season, absolutely. This year, probably. Lebron for sure is a better player at this point in their careers. He is in his prime playing along two all-stars and a solid supporting cast now, while Kobe's prime ended about 3 years ago. It won't surprise me to see the Heat and Lebron fall short to the Mavs; Dirk is shooting lights out at this point, it doesn't seem like he ever misses.
Pau Gasol is virtually a lock for the HOF..just because Laker fan doesn't like to believe so, it doesn't mean it isn't true..out of all the NBA les in history, only one player had superior advanced metrics than the "best player" on the team, during multiple le runs, and that was Gasol..others have done it once(such as Manu in 2005), but Gasol actually did it for both les..
Kobe has never made the playoffs without having a team with one of the highest payrolls in the NBA..he has never won a le without having the best frontcourt in the NBA..he has been to the Finals 7 times, and only had 1 standout performance..beating his peak won't be too difficult for Lebron, all he would need is 2-3 rings as a #1, which shouldn't be a problem..
The rings argument is fairly weak..Hakeem with 2 rings > Kobe with 5, tbh..
Weak.
Bird had a freaking Hall of Fame front line across the board and never won without TWO Hall of Fame bigmen. Larry Bird needed two to four Hall of Famers to win three championships. For his first ring he had two Hall of Famers. For his second ring he had THREE Hall Of Famers. For his third ring he had FOUR Hall of Famers. I mean seriously, WTF with the "Kobe only won because he had more talent around him than anyone" bull . The talented teammates list starts with Larry Joe Bird.
Magic needed TWO Hall of Famers and a 6-Time League MVP and top 2 player all-time to win five.
Kobe won five with only ONE Hall Of Famer on his team for those championships assuming Gasol does indeed make the HOF. And Gasol was 0 wins and 12 losses in the playoffs before he met Kobe.
Jordan had two Hall of Famers for three of his rings.
How many Hall of Fame players have won five or more rings with only one other Hall of Famer on their team? Not Jordan, Not Bird, Not Magic, Not Russell, Not Shaq, Not Duncan.
LMFAO at the talented teammates argument.
Bull . Hakeem was great but he's become somewhat of a mythological figure and is often talked about in terms that were greater than he really was.
Kobe's career > Hakeem's.
5 Rings > 2
7 Finals appearances > 2
3 Repeats > 1
1 Threepeat > 0
9 All-NBA 1st team > 6
13 All-NBA Teams > 12
9 All-Defensive 1st Team > 5
11 All-Defensive Teams > 9
13 All Star Games > 12
27,868 career points > 26,946
and Kobe is still going....
Last edited by namlook; 05-30-2011 at 03:25 PM.
Kobe fans are too gullible. Of course Phil said that, he was coaching Kobe at that time. Its much logical to cater to Kobe's ego considering he's very sensitive when it comes to criticism.
We'll see who will have the last laugh two weeks from now. Enjoy your WCF trophy
Bron needs just two les with solid Finals performance to catch up Kobe. I just don't think total ring count qualifies as a valid argument in Kobe's case. He wasn't the best player in those first 3 peat. people know it was Shaq's team.
Dumars won MVP but nobody really remembers that, people however know that was Isiah's team, same with Tony Parker winning the Finals MVP, doesn't matter really because it was Timmy's Spurs.
If Lebron wins two back to back and puts up a better Finals performance than Kobe then the comparison is over. Not only does Lebron offsets Kobe's two les as the best player but IMO he would also pass Kobe by putting up a better performance.
meh,
it's all about the Lakers, not any individual...
stupid arguments
And Kobe Olajuwon rightly deserves that mythological le. He's one of 2-3 players in history to win a le, Finals and regular season MVP's and a DPOY at the same year. he also carried a bunch of true blue collar players with no star power town NBA le.
What's funny is, Lakers fans are gonna pray Pau Gasol doesn't make the HOF even after playing a major role on 2 of their le teams.
Lebron is full of potential. That we all agree on. He has the potential to be the greatest ever. It takes more than potential. Needing Wade and Bosh to ring doesn't make him look that great tbh. I was much more impressed with him when he beat Detroit with that unreal effort a few years ago to get to the Finals, even though he was swept in the Finals. He didn't have the team to beat SA. Now he does, but maybe he's got too much. Maybe the deck is so stacked in his favor that it will taint any ring he wins.
He probably doesn't care, just wants a ring.
Does not compute...
And Kobe Olajuwon rightly deserves that mythological le. He's one of 2-3 players in history to win a le, Finals and regular season MVP's and a DPOY at the same year. he also carried a bunch of true blue collar players with no star power town NBA le.
Actually Lebron's goal should be team based. Of all the players who have chased individual accolades, a tiny few have actually succeeded and even then it's been overshadowed by players on other teams who have elevated the team.
If Lebron is ever considered the greatest of all time, he will have jumped many hurdles that we haven't even discussed, like the fact that he was considered great before ever stepping onto an NBA floor. MJ was never expected to be as great as he was. That seems to be a non-factor, maybe even that pressure could force failure, but I think Lebron gets to CLEP out of many of the tests MJ had to pass to be considered great.
Who has Lebron owned, what powerhouse team has he struggled to beat and finally beaten? The Celtics don't count because we could easily split that between he and Wade, maybe even Bosh.
Where Pippen came in to help MJ, Lebron and Wade are much closer to being MJ than Pippen was. Pippen was great, but a different type of player than either Lebron or Wade. So you have two MJ like players playing together, you cannot give the same amount of MVPness to each. It must be divided somewhere. This is why players like Manu will never be in that kind of talk, even if he had 5 rings. There are too many other great players who could also be given the award of MVP. With MJ, it wasn't in question.
Anyone who thinks Lebron is going to approach MJ status didn't watch MJ win all those rings in his prime. He was simply amazing to watch, and his mark on the league is still seen today and will be 20 years from now. People will be compared to him for a long long time. MJ was compared to Dr J, but not for long. No one was compared to J after that, and it's been comparing to MJ ever since. That's been a long time without anyone else becoming the benchmark.
I never said he should chase "individual accolades" ...the OP's point was if he wins 1 ring does he "surpass". My point was that he needs 3 rings at least,probably 4. 4 combined with all of Lebron's accomplishments both team based and individual would be enough to surpass Kobe. In most folks eyes. But again with the "help" Lebron has and how great he is MJ and his 6 rings should be the goal. If Lebron only surpasses Kobe with his "gifts" ...as crazy as it sounds is probably "underaceiving".
I agree Lebron is the most hyped athlete in NBA history and to meet MOSt of those expectations is a of a ccomplishment. But to whom much is given much is Expected. James was given all you could ask for from God, court vision, hops, speed and power. He should win at least as much as MJ because physically he is better. The question is does he has the mental stamina to will his team to 6 like Mj. Someone mentioned that Mj's mental game is underrated and I agree. Lebron has every other advantage (besides mental) and a HOF coach ...
What you think and what will be the "reality and the Perception of the league are two different things. But the Lebron/Kobe debate is so childish. Lebron stakes should be higher like KAreem and MJ at 6 and he should be looking to surpass the legacy of those 2 and Magic. Kobe Duncan and Bird is probably the "low hanging fruit" ...tbh in relative terms.Kobe fans are too gullible. Of course Phil said that, he was coaching Kobe at that time. Its much logical to cater to Kobe's ego considering he's very sensitive when it comes to criticism.
We'll see who will have the last laugh two weeks from now. Enjoy your WCF trophy
Bron needs just two les with solid Finals performance to catch up Kobe. I just don't think total ring count qualifies as a valid argument in Kobe's case. He wasn't the best player in those first 3 peat. people know it was Shaq's team.
Dumars won MVP but nobody really remembers that, people however know that was Isiah's team, same with Tony Parker winning the Finals MVP, doesn't matter really because it was Timmy's Spurs.
If Lebron wins two back to back and puts up a better Finals performance than Kobe then the comparison is over. Not only does Lebron offsets Kobe's two les as the best player but IMO he would also pass Kobe by putting up a better performance.
Kobe has always been ranked higher than Lebron because he had better teammates.
Now that LeBron have better teammates, we can say LeBron > Kobe.
Then you should have said his goal should be the Bulls of that era, not Jordan.
MJ's mental game was not underrated. Him and Rodman were able to get into the head of the opponent, all the way up to the coach. The difference is that no one could do anything about Michael.
That makes no sense. Fisher had those same teammates. Why is he not ranked higher than Lebron?
No.
He should be worried about winning one. You cannot win 6 before you win 1.
Not even close to how bad they treat Shaq after he gifted them three les.
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