pretty much
lol USMNT circa 90'
And I think this is still our best lineup, the exception could be to move Boca inside for Ream, who was poor against Spain, and have Lichaj start at RB and then start Edu for Jones (though neither really showed quality. Spector might even be a better option as an attacking mid. Not having Holden is a huge loss).
Also, WTF isn't Torres on this team? Ugh.
Lots of talk for this lineup against Canada, and I'd love to see it:
----------------Howard--------------
---Dolo---Boca---Goodson---Lichaj---
---Lando---Jones--Bradley---Spector--
--------Deuce-------Jozy/Wando-----
Juan off the bench.
I think that would be quite swell actually
Because Torres is not nearly as good as the mids we have. He's not as good as Edu or Jones. We get all up in arms over 1 game and start questioning who should play but Edu and Jones are both still good mids. Bradley is obviously the best.
Thats not half bad. Might be worth a shot at some point to see how it fares.
Torres not as good as Rogers or Sasha? Get yo head checked foo
http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2011/...-jozy-altidoreThe United States Is Not Catching Up To Mexico, The World
For years, there has been a myth perpetuated across the world that the United States men's national soccer team is steadily improving. Instead, they're stagnating, which might as well be a step backwards.
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Jun 6, 2011 - The United States men's national team is not any better than it was ten years ago, relative to the rest of the world. Eventually, if that stagnation continues, it will cause their standing in world football to decrease significantly.
Before presenting any kind of an argument in this piece, I feel the need to clarify a few things. No, I am not writing this piece because I dislike the United States men's national team or United States soccer. I am a big fan of U.S. soccer on all levels, meaning the men's and women's senior and youth teams.
No, I am not writing this piece to piss people off. I actually feel like most football (or soccer, if you prefer) fans are fairly reasonable people who are willing to change their mind when presented with reasonable evidence. The myth that the United States men's national team is catching up to the rest of the world is one that has been perpetuated for quite some time, and I believe it to be false.
No, I am not a fan of any Mexican national team. I am simply an American soccer fan who happens to not hate the Mexican national team and Mexican football in general. I find it to be enjoyable to watch, but I watch both the league and the national team objectively. I don't ever care if the national team wins or loses, except when they're playing the United States, in which case, I root for them to lose.
On Sunday night, in the first half of their Gold Cup match against El Salvador, that Mexican national team was terrible. Despite all of the hype surrounding them coming into the tournament, the supremely talented Mexicans came out flat and looked like a team that had never played together. Then, the second half happened.
El Tri found a new gear, and they scored five goals in a half against a team that had completely held them at bay one half earlier. Javier Hernandez scored a hat trick. Giovani dos Santos was brilliant. Gerardo Torrado, a player who was poor in the first half, was great in the second. It was a remarkable turn of events, and it displayed a lot of the differences between the United States and Mexico.
The USMNT simply does not possess the gear that Mexico showed on Sunday. The reasons for that are numerous (and debatable), but the biggest one seems to be that they're just not that good. Their players don't have the skill and confidence to run at defenders, beat them, then finish with quality or pick out a teammate who will finish with quality. And, incredibly, Mexico was not at their best.
Pablo Barrera and Andres Guardado, talented wingers who were incredible in both of Mexico's warm-up games for the Gold Cup, were not great. Israel Castro was actually quite poor. Giovani dos Santos and Chicharito were pretty good, but both have had better days. That gear that the United States doesn't have? It was maybe a B+ performance.
This is not the Mexico team that the United States beat in 2007 at the Gold Cup. It's not even the one that they faced in Gold Cup qualifying. Those teams had rotating platoons all over the pitch, especially at striker. Javier Hernandez is far and away better than any striker that Mexico has had between now and the prime of Jared Borgetti. Andres Guardado was always injured. Giovani dos Santos couldn't get playing time with his clubs. The back line and goalie switched around all the time.
Now, it's a new era for Mexico. The XI they played on Sunday is their first choice starting XI, and no one questions this. There is a perfect mix of experienced players and young talent, and the entire front four is 24 or younger. Of the backups for those front four, Aldo de Nigris is the oldest at the age of 27. If Mexico had one squad to fill out this summer, de Nigris and Angel Reyna, age 26, might not make the team over the likes of Marco Fabian, Javier Cortes, Erick Torres and Carlos Vela.
It's very likely that this discrepancy between the United States and Mexico has much more to do with positive changes that Mexico has made than things the United States has failed to do, but the result is the same. The United States is absolutely not catching up to their nearest rival, and that rival is the one that should probably be their measuring stick for the time being.
However, even if Mexico had 25 Barcelona academies scattered across the country, that would not make my point invalid. The argument here is not that the United States is doing anything to hurt their players, it's that they're not gaining any ground on Mexico and their other close rivals.
Many of the veteran players in Mexico, players like Maza Rodriguez, Carlos Salcido, Israel Castro and Ricardo Osorio did not become first team regulars for top flight clubs in Mexico until they were around the age of 22. The same applies for older Mexican legends like Jared Borgetti and Cuauhtemoc Blanco. This is similar to the current system in Major League Soccer, where the vast majority of players attend university for some period of time before turning professional. There are some obviously notable exceptions in the US team, but there are just as many in the Mexican national team. The point is, for the veteran players in both teams, most became first team regulars for a professional team around the age of 21 or 22.
For Mexico, this has changed considerably. As a player who became a first team regular at the age of 20, Chicharito is considered a seriously late bloomer. Andres Guardado, Giovani dos Santos, Efrain Juarez and Pablo Barrera all became first team regulars as teenagers. This is becoming more common in Mexico, and it's why there are so many good, young players in their player pool.
These players are playing in a league that is, top to bottom, a better league than Major League Soccer. The teams at the top of MLS would be able to compete in the Mexican Primera, but the league as a whole is not as strong as the more established Primera. This is very understandable, as the Mexican Primera has been around much longer, but it doesn't change the fact that it simply is not as good at the moment, for a variety of reasons.
From a player development standpoint, the Mexican Primera is much more conducive to producing players who are compe ive in a variety of professional leagues and in international compe ion. American teams and players have relied mostly on speed, strength, size and effort for a very long time, which allows them to compete in a variety of environments, but recent trends in world football have put a higher value on technical skills and tactical awareness.
Teams and players in the Mexican Primera are almost certainly, as a whole, more technically skilled in every way than their counterparts in MLS. The league has more teams who are adept and keeping possession through passing on the ground and more players who are good at running at defenders, then beating them with some kind of technical move. Being taught how to do that as an attacking player makes you a more effective, well-rounded player than someone who is not encouraged to do so, and facing players who have those skills as a defender makes you a much better defender.
Additionally, the tactical variations in the Mexican Primera are much more wide-reaching than those in MLS. A player coming out of the Primera will have seen more different tactical setups than his counterpart in MLS. This, almost certainly, is something that makes players better.
Pick out any great young player in the United States player pool, and it is easy to pick out his counterpart in position, skill set, age, and raw talent in the Mexican player pool. On just about every occasion, the Mexican player will be more accomplished. Juan Agudelo does not have the playing time or scoring record behind him that Cubo Torres does. Brek Shea is not on the level of Javier Cortes and Marco Fabian. Tim Ream has a long way to go before he is at the level of Hector Moreno. Though Eric Lichaj seems young to many US fans, he's less than a year younger than Mexico starting right back Efrain Juarez. And of course, the gap between Jozy Altidore and Javier Hernandez is astronomical.
But it's not just Mexico. Where is the American Bryan Ruiz or Celso Borges? How about the American Kenywne Jones? Why isn't the United States even close to the second tier South American nations in player development, nations whose domestic football leagues are not financially stable at all? The fact that football is the most popular sport in those countries is not an excuse; Uruguay and Paraguay have less than 11 million people combined.
The United States may not be regressing in terms of player development, but their stagnation represents regression relative to the rest of the world. I firmly believe that the likes of Pele and Johan Cruyff, as absolutely brilliant and revolutionary as they were in their times, would not be world class players in modern football. Times change, people evolve, and the game evolves. Every generation's best player is the greatest player of all time in his prime. This is why stagnation over a long period of time in football is essentially just a slower form of regression.
Recently, the United States Soccer Federation has made some serious changes in its strategy for developing players and in their coaching curriculum. We will not see the positive results from these changes for a few years. It is my sincere hope that the changes the US Soccer Federation has made in player and coach development have a significant positive impact on those areas, ultimately making this entire article null and void five years from now. However, right now, the United States men's national team appears to be falling behind their compe ion.
Well, at least the Women's team is class.
I wonder if we can just send them to the Gold Cup instead.
Well I don't think Rogers should have been invited to begin with but the point is that those 2 can play on the wings while Torres plays centrally. Not fair to compare him to those two. Torres is fighting for time with Edu, Jones, Bradley and others who can play centrally and he's not as versatile as a guy like Bedoya.
Thats a pretty bull article, TBH. 10 years ago, the US way overachieved and I don't think anyone can argue otherwise. This past world cup, the US played extremely well and even with the refs screwing us at every opportunity they made it into the round of 16. One can say they underachieved there, but thats a tough sell.
How is that stagnation? Yeah, they haven't looked great in the friendlies and their B- team got their ass kicked by the number one team in the world but the US has also played 3 of the worlds top 5 teams in the the past few months and have had only one cupcake where they brought a very young team.
You have to try extremely hard to say they've stagnated considering they've just come off an excellent world cup and a bad ass confederations cup just before that. In fact you have to flat out make a stupid argument.
Mexico is good. Mexico is the favorite. But the final isn't a seven game series and Mexico as a whole is not THAT much better than the US' A+ team. Mexico fans want to look at the Spain and El Salvador games and think they have it in the bag but the fact is that Mexico is no where near at the level of Spain and the US' isn't near at the level of El Salvador.
Keep counting those chickens though.
Also, thats gotta be one of the dumbest things he could have posted? Where are Uraguays Lebron James? Where are Urugay's dominant Line Backers? Where are the dominant Hockey players from Uraguay?The fact that football is the most popular sport in those countries is not an excuse
Of course it matters how popular the sport is in the country. If he wants to know where our American dominant player is, he needs look no further than the Italian National Team. But yeah, I guess Rossi leaving had nothing to do with how popular the sport is here vs Italy.
Rodgers doesn't belong on the squad, regardless of position, and Sasha isn't a wing either. His performance was significantly better once he moved into the center next to Bradley, but even then he doesn't belong on the team either.
I'm losing faith in Edu as a MF as well, his future on this team may need to be at CB.
Edu is fine. He's just not at a consistent level that Bradley is at. Jones isn't really much better than Edu but he shows flashes. Honestly, I think the biggest detriment to this team is their lack of consistent playing time as a unit. At some point in this cycle I hope Bradley nails down a top 11-13 players and consistently sticks with them.
At the end of the day, the USMNT has not progressed at all since those games in confederations and world cup... I'm not exactly sure how "good" they were at the world cup but I'll just give you that and keep going.
The US was never better than Mexico other than 2007 when they beat Mexico in the Gold Cup... in recent years at least..
Mexico has been progressing far more than the US... Mexico has played a much better Spain team that the US just played and didn't lose by 4.
At the end of the day the US doesn't have the extra edge for an upset or to keep progressing... they're at the same level.. just another dull team that will rarely succeed....
Mexico at least has a chance at upsets..
You can't deny Mexico>USA at this moment in time... and unless the US beats Mexico in this Gold Cup, it will continue to be like this..
No excuses.
Mexico is the favorite. We'll see who's better in a few weeks. I'm not going to judge based off international friendlies where the US plays guys that should not even have been invited to the camp.
Discussion popping up on another board about what kind of GC performance would be required for Bob to get fired.
Would a 5-0 loss to Mexico in the final be enough?
With that said, Mexico wasn't the clear cut favorite before last Saturday, and I don't think they are the obvious favorite now that the US B team lost to the World Champions A- squad.
We horribly lack depth, and our B team should lose to just about any quality squad in the world.
Mexico brings a lot in the attack and has a solid backline, but our midfield outclasses them. I'd put Mexico as only a very slight favorite over the US right now. Mexico fans laugh at the idea we are close; but they are idiot Mexico fans: they same ones who claim superiority over the US but fail to realize Mexico has the same history achievment on the world stage (which is NONE). They same ones who take so much pride in drumming us at the '09 Gold Cup Final while our A-team was busy in the Confed Cup.
We will see who is better in a few weeks, indeed.
That is, of course, unless the US really does suck. And then I'll come in here and say "yeah, we suck... Mexico is better... FML... where is Klinsmann?"
Well since USA fans like to put a lot of weight on the "confederations cup" Mexico has won the Confederations cup, agasint Brasil in the final no less. And an U-17 world cup, also against Brasil in the final.
Last edited by IronMaxipad; 06-07-2011 at 03:19 PM.
You know, I'm almost to the point with Bradley where him being fired MIGHT be worth getting our ass kicked by Mexico. Sadly, I don't think he even gets close to being fired if they lose big to Mexico. Going to take losing to someone else and not even making it to the final for that talk to start.
I thought it was just Robbie Findley, but after his choice of ROBBIE ING ROGERS I see it will simply always be the case.
Does anyone on our squad give confidence they could score a goal like McBride's first here?
Seems like all of our shots in traffic go right into a defender.
lol ^
That's what a striker is expected to do, but I see your point
Far more impressive to me is the run by Reyna...Miss that dude
I second that... 'Captain America' was a of a captain, leader on and off the field... embodiment of professionalism and class...
I think the only thing missing in that recap clip was O'Brien's handball in the penalty box... had the ref sanctioned that play by the book and given him a red card I believe the outcome of that game would have been totally different... Instead the US takes the rebound from that play, goes on a break and Landon Donovan seals it with a header.... Game Over.
Last edited by Phenomanul; 06-10-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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