Racial Demographics

[Borat Sagyidev]

And to all the "statistics" hounds claiming this and that here is a term you should learn "Correlation does not imply causation". It's pretty well versed.

]

Now if we go by the 2010 census, blacks make up 12.6% of the population but about 1/3rd of the gangs in the USA. That simple fact shows there is a difference in ethics, when viewed statistically. Statistics of other related items will tend to be close to such numbers.

I'm not going to do any deep research into this. The facts speak for themselves. I don't see a simple fix. How do you change a culture?

No wanna-be Hitler. It doesn't speak for itself. I could show similar data that relates ice cream sales and violent crime. You need the full picture which by a long shot you don't have.

[ElNono]

Notice that the article acknowledges the poor students are not starting on a level playing field. It has to be leveled in their communities. They start at a disadvantage in the schools and end that way too.

That's exactly the point. If they would have a level playing field, they wouldn't need the assistance. And if they're not ending well, then that's nothing but an indicator that the playing field is not leveled enough.

This is the parents responsibility. How is society suppose to contend with poorly raised children.

I don't know what magical world you live in. In the real world there's actual socioeconomic constrains on the parents (as clearly pointed out in that article) that prevent them from providing the care and attention their kids need. It can hardly be the parent's fault when they have to break their back working many hours to just put food on the table. On the other hand, the kid shouldn't be penalized because he was born in the poor side of town. Heck, it's not the kid's fault even if the parents turn out to be assholes and drunkards.

Society contends with it in the same way it contends with racist ignorant authoritarians like yourself. It tries to give everybody the same opportunity to be the best they can be. Some turn out ok, and then some end up like you.

[ElNono]

The problem is the mindset of too many blacks.

You think the majority of blacks fit that description?

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know what magical world you live in. In the real world there's actual socioeconomic constrains on the parents (as clearly pointed out in that article) that prevent them from providing the care and attention their kids need.

How does that affect morality and initiative?

It can hardly be the parent's fault when they have to break their back working many hours to just put food on the table.
If they actually work, the kids learn some work ethics.
On the other hand, the kid shouldn't be penalized because he was born in the poor side of town.

Financially poor does not also have to mean poor or moral judgment.

Heck, it's not the kid's fault even if the parents turn out to be assholes and drunkards.

No it's not. Are you advocating we take the kids away from such parents?

Society contends with it in the same way it contends with racist ignorant authoritarians like yourself. It tries to give everybody the same opportunity to be the best they can be. Some turn out ok, and then some end up like you.

I'm all for the same opportunity. that's why I dislike quota systems.

[Wild Cobra]

You think the majority of blacks fit that description?

I think too many black parents teach their children that they will never amount to anything because of white prejudice.

There is no level playing filed if they believe their parents. They start at a disadvantage, and remain as such throughout life. Simply because their parents taught them they wouldn't amount to anything. Why try to accel if you believe it has no reward?

[CuckingFunt]

Oh, I just lurve the argument that ethnic minorities are the agents of their own oppression.

[ElNono]

How does that affect morality and initiative?

Who says morality and initiative are the problem? That's a connection that you've never made, other than in your preconceived notions.

Furthermore, morality is a VERY, and I mean VERY loose term. Who's the moral police and who gave them authority?

Financially poor does not also have to mean poor or moral judgment.

It can happen to be both. You're a prime example. You still haven't made the connection that has anything to do with race though. There's crooks from all races and all economic levels, as we've seen for a while now.

No it's not. Are you advocating we take the kids away from such parents?

No. I don't know where you get that idea from my post. The solution to that problem is to help the kid more outside that environment by leveling the playing field with those that didn't have to go trough those problems.

I'm all for the same opportunity. that's why I dislike quota systems.

It's not the same opportunity if the socioeconomic backgrounds is different. That's exactly what programs like affirmative action target. A quota system doesn't mean that the person taking advantage of the quota is any less smart or qualified. They simply didn't get a fair shot at it like everyone else because of social and economic constrains that were not their fault to begin with, so society tries to adjust and make up for that so everybody gets the same opportunity (especially on limited, sought after position).

[ElNono]

I think too many black parents teach their children that they will never amount to anything because of white prejudice.

And you reached this conclusion based on what exactly?

[Wild Cobra]

Oh, I just lurve the argument that ethnic minorities are the agents of their own oppression.

They are for the most part.

How can people live a dream if they don't have one to strive for?

[Wild Cobra]

And you reached this conclusion based on what exactly?

Dud...

I live in Portland. I see what that editorial is about.

[ElNono]

Dud...

I live in Portland. I see what that editorial is about.

You didn't answer the question (which didn't have anything to do with the editorial). Answer the question.

[CuckingFunt]

They are for the most part.

How can people live a dream if they don't have one to strive for?

You know what, WC, I'll concede that I don't know you well enough to make judgments about your character as a human being based solely on what you post here. It is very true that you may not in fact be a bigot.

But damn have you got the playbook memorized.

[Wild Cobra]

Who says morality and initiative are the problem? That's a connection that you've never made, other than in your preconceived notions.

Statistics imply that if the kids had the initiative to learn, they would. If they had morals, they wouldn't be in gangs by the percentages they are.

Furthermore, morality is a VERY, and I mean VERY loose term. Who's the moral police and who gave them authority?

Are you familiar with the violent crime statistics, by race?

It can happen to be both. You're a prime example. You still haven't made the connection that has anything to do with race though. There's crooks from all races and all economic levels, as we've seen for a while now.

Yes, there are crooks as you say. However, who is the largest perpetrator of violent crimes?

No. I don't know where you get that idea from my post. The solution to that problem is to help the kid more outside that environment by leveling the playing field with those that didn't have to go trough those problems.

The best solution I have to solve this problem at the root level is to make all possible effort to teach parents what affects their prejudices have on their childrens future.

It's not the same opportunity if the socioeconomic backgrounds is different.

Agreed. However, the socioeconomic background is a factor that we all grow up in and foster learning and skills. If people are disadvantaged by their environment, why should others have to step back who are more qualified to make room for them?

That's exactly what programs like affirmative action target.

If you mean the original intent of affirmative action, I agree.

A quota system doesn't mean that the person taking advantage of the quota is any less smart or qualified.

Yet court cases have proven otherwise.

They simply didn't get a fair shot at it like everyone else because of social and economic constrains that were not their fault to begin with, so society tries to adjust and make up for that so everybody gets the same opportunity (especially on limited, sought after position).

So....

If my parents never taught me how to drive, should I be given a license anyway, because I was disadvantaged?

[ChumpDumper]

I think

[Wild Cobra]

You know what, WC, I'll concede that I don't know you well enough to make judgments about your character as a human being based solely on what you post here. It is very true that you may not in fact be a bigot.

But damn have you got the playbook memorized.

Yes, I understand.

Not being afraid of the Political Correct Police means being called a Bigot.

[ElNono]

Statistics imply that if the kids had the initiative to learn, they would. If they had morals, they wouldn't be in gangs by the percentages they are.

You didn't show any statistics that measure such a thing as 'initiative to learn'. I even doubt you can measure that in any reasonable, scientific way.

Using Gang membership statistics to quantify an abstract like 'initiative to learn' really says a lot more about your own intelligence than racial initiative.

Are you familiar with the violent crime statistics, by race?

Yes, there are crooks as you say. However, who is the largest perpetrator of violent crimes?

Why do you want to limit it to violent crimes only? Non-violent crimes are a crime too. Reach much?

The best solution I have to solve this problem at the root level is to make all possible effort to teach parents what affects their prejudices have on their childrens future.

Their parents are too busy working for pennies to put food on the table. Also, how do you propose to teach them that? What are you proactively doing to teach such lessons?

Agreed. However, the socioeconomic background is a factor that we all grow up in and foster learning and skills. If people are disadvantaged by their environment, why should others have to step back who are more qualified to make room for them?

Nobody has to step back. They still have to go through the same amount of work and tests as any other person. They simply get an opportunity at a shot, not guaranteed success at the expense of another person.

If you mean the original intent of affirmative action, I agree.
Yet court cases have proven otherwise.
So....
If my parents never taught me how to drive, should I be given a license anyway, because I was disadvantaged?

That's not how it works. You're either dumb or purposely disingenuous.
You would be given an opportunity to earn your driver's license taking a driver's test. Equal opportunity doesn't guarantee success.
And it would only be right that because your poor parents could never afford a vehicle, you can still have an opportunity to learn how to drive an acquire a license.

[CuckingFunt]

Yes, I understand.

Not by a long shot.

[LnGrrrR]

The problem is the mindset of too many blacks. They limit themselves by blaming the whites for crimes of our ancestors. It's easier to say it's our fault than standing up on their own two feet and attempt to succeed.

That didn't answer my question.

Do you think it's fair to enslave a people for centuries, and expect them to be on equal footing 40 years after civil rights laws were passed?

LOL...

I just pointed out the problem is living in the past, and you bring this up.

These problems of the past are fixed. Move on.

I'm using it as a hypothetical. Surely, you can answer a hypothetical to better illuminate your viewpoint on what the "correct" course of action should be in said case?

[LnGrrrR]

I think too many black parents teach their children that they will never amount to anything because of white prejudice.

As you have asked others, so I will ask you...

Do you have any proof for this?

[Wild Cobra]

As you have asked others, so I will ask you...

Do you have any proof for this?

How can I prove what I see for myself?

[Wild Cobra]

Do you think it's fair to enslave a people for centuries, and expect them to be on equal footing 40 years after civil rights laws were passed?

Life isn't fair. Funny how so many people from other cultures, live a poor life, but have their children accel. Could it be they instill good life values in their children and teach them that they can achieve if they try?

I'm using it as a hypothetical. Surely, you can answer a hypothetical to better illuminate your viewpoint on what the "correct" course of action should be in said case?

My answer would probably be the same. Get past resentment and move on. Stop blaming others for your the inability to succeed.

We need to fix the problem in children in the formative years. After that, it's too late.

Do you guys even attempt to understand my viewpoint, or are you going to ask endless stupid questions?

[TeyshaBlue]

How can I prove what I see for myself?

Especially difficult when you see what you want to see.

[Wild Cobra]

Especially difficult when you see what you want to see.

Are you telling me that all black parents don't tell their kids that white will keep them down any more?

Can you prove that?

I didn't think so.

[ElNono]

Are you telling me that some black parents don't tell their kids that white will keep them down any more?

Are you a black parent?

[ElNono]

Can you prove that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

It even suits you well