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  1. #76
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    And one of their better years I think 94, rodman was suspended in a playoff game againt utah. Who knows what would've happened if he wasn't insane.
    tbh maybe if robinson wasn't chasing him with a bible rodman wouldn't have quit on him.

  2. #77
    One of the most best jag's Avatar
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    Mav fan is great. He realizes this was a stupid debate and starts talking about Hakeem.

    A ring has hardly cured mav fan of little brother syndrome. Even after a lot of Spurs fans were happy to see Dirk get a ring and embarrass the Heat, Mav fan still wants more. Dirk obviously doesn't stack up to Duncan, so Mav fan wants to see how he stacks up to Robinson.

    I've always been a fan of Dirk and I've been pretty open about that. As much as I've hated the Mavs, Dirk will easily end up going down as one of my favorite players. But on the first page it was funny to see FPoonsie try to keep the peace by being nice and saying it wasn't a "completely" ridiculous question. In all honesty, it is a ridiculous question. Dirk is no where near the player Robinson was.

    The best argument for Dirk is his offense and how he takes over games offensively. I've never seen a player Dirk's size shoot the way he does. But that doesn't mean there haven't been players his size who have scored as well as he does. Robinson was in many ways just as good, and at times better than Nowitzki on the offensive end. In his prime, Robinson had range just shy of the 3-pt line and was also capable of playing with his back to the basket and taking his man off the dribble. He didn't have Dirk's pure ability to shoot the ball, but his quickness, athleticism and body control were in a completely different league than Dirk's.

    When it comes to defense and rebounding, it isn't even close. Though Dirk has improved defensively and is no longer a liablity, Robinson was much more than "not a liability". He was the best defensive player in the game. When they were at their respective bests, Robinson still averaged over 3 RPG more and 3 BPG more than Dirk.

    As far as longevity is concerned, Robinson had 10-11 seasons as an elite NBA player. It's not as if Robinson dominated for a few years and then fell off. He sustained that level over the course of a decade.

    Dirk was finally able to lead his team to a le as the clear #1 star. Something Robinson was unable to do for 8 seasons. But as the #1 option, it also took Nowitzki 12 tries to finally accomplish that. It would be foolish to think Nowitzki had stacked teams for all these years, that obviously isn't the case. But Robinson would have killed to have a prime Michael Finley starting next to him. Forget about having Antoine Walker, Antawn Jamison, Michael Finley, Steve Nash and a young Josh Howard all on the same roster.

    Dirk was able to win because he grew as a leader and finally had the right pieces put around him. Robinson was basically asked to be all the pieces. He never had an owner willing to spend money. Cuban and Dirk turned the Mavs into a winning franchise. Robinson was asked to do it on his own.

  3. #78
    Robert Horry mode ohmwrecker's Avatar
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    _Jag with the "no Sherlock" goods






    (begrudgingly offered)

  4. #79
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Robinson was elite on both ends of the floor, but he was a playoff choker.

    Dirk was elite on one end and average at best on the other, but he raises his game in the playoffs.

    Interesting question, to be honest.

  5. #80
    Robert Horry mode ohmwrecker's Avatar
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    Robinson was elite on both ends of the floor, but he was a playoff choker.
    Seriously?! Up until a week ago Dirk was widely considered a playoff choker. Robinson didn't choke once he had a decent team either. Good take though.

  6. #81
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    Robinson was elite on both ends of the floor, but he was a playoff choker.

    Dirk was elite on one end and average at best on the other, but he raises his game in the playoffs.

    Interesting question, to be honest.
    Let's not forget Dirk needed quite a bit of help from Terry & Barea to help overcome his obvious nerves to win that game 6. He helped to ice the game in the 4th once the mavs were up double digits (thx to none other than Ian Mahinmi lol).

    Do you consider Dirk's first 3 quarters 'choking'? I'm afraid to answer that question honestly (because I like the guy alot).

  7. #82
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Let's not forget Dirk needed quite a bit of help from Terry & Barea to help overcome his obvious nerves to win that game 6. He helped to ice the game in the 4th once the mavs were up double digits (thx to none other than Ian Mahinmi lol).

    Do you consider Dirk's first 3 quarters 'choking'? I'm afraid to answer that question honestly (because I like the guy alot).
    No, choking is what LeBron did when he passed the ball like a hot potato. Dirk kept firing away. In the same sense Starks going 1-18 was not choking. He just shot away his team's chances to win.

  8. #83
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    No, choking is what LeBron did when he passed the ball like a hot potato. Dirk kept firing away. In the same sense Starks going 1-18 was not choking. He just shot away his team's chances to win.
    I love this. Fans are in love with chuckers now. Give me a LeBron James mentality all day, every day. If I'm getting doubled, pass the ball to the open teammate. All LeBron does is make the correct play. Say what you want about off-the-court antics, he's the epitome of everything you want in a basketball player when he's on it.

  9. #84
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    lol all of a sudden rings mean nothing now

    isn't this the same fanbase that wants to put Duncan over Kobe because of rings as a 1st option but will completely downplay it, if it helps the Dirk>Robinson argument crofl
    Fair enough. But non Spurs fans do this to Spurs fans all the time. When they want to downplay Duncan, it's "well, look at the talent he's played with and the coach he's played for". When they want to downplay Robinson, Ginobili or Parker, then it's "well, they had the greatest PF ever to lead and carry them". So don't act like this is something that's exclusive to Spurs fans.

  10. #85
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    No, choking is what LeBron did when he passed the ball like a hot potato. Dirk kept firing away. In the same sense Starks going 1-18 was not choking. He just shot away his team's chances to win.
    Fin-dawg, I have nothing but respect for ya but this is junk. Straight up.


    Robinson was elite on both ends of the floor, but he was a playoff choker.

    Dirk was elite on one end and average at best on the other, but he raises his game in the playoffs.

    Interesting question, to be honest.

    Your sig says it all. Dirk should still be grab-assing Terry because he deserves it. JET showed up in Game 6 and saved Dirks bacon.

  11. #86
    NT? more like SO i said
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    Fair enough. But non Spurs fans do this to Spurs fans all the time. When they want to downplay Duncan, it's "well, look at the talent he's played with and the coach he's played for". When they want to downplay Robinson, Ginobili or Parker, then it's "well, they had the greatest PF ever to lead and carry them". So don't act like this is something that's exclusive to Spurs fans.
    You must be imagining things.

    Only morons/trolls or BRHornet will say Duncan's not the best PF ever. It's pretty much a fact known around the basketball world

  12. #87
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    Duncan 10/27 game 7....good thing he had manu to bail him out
    Tim Duncan won that game. Towards the end of the 3rd quarter we were down by double digits and then Tim put the team on his back. He started going down low aggressive every time until he got all of Detroit's bigs in foul trouble to lead the comeback which opened up the lanes for Manu. It was the stretch where we took over and won the game. That was Tim Duncan.

  13. #88
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    Duncan 10/27 game 7....good thing he had manu to bail him out
    It was Duncan though that did not stop being aggressive. Lebron should watch that game as a lesson for how a great player stays with it in spite of a tough shooting night. 4th qtr Duncan is fighting for position and demanding the ball. Takes the shot or draws the double and gets the opening. 2 huge 3's in 4qtr game 7 wide open, 1 by Bowen the other by Manu.. Wide open thanks to Duncan's aggression..

    Timmy is the man..

  14. #89
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    Tim Duncan won that game. Towards the end of the 3rd quarter we were down by double digits and then Tim put the team on his back. He started going down low aggressive every time until he got all of Detroit's bigs in foul trouble to lead the comeback which opened up the lanes for Manu. It was the stretch where we took over and won the game. That was Tim Duncan.
    Yep Yep..

  15. #90
    Mr. Dignity Solid D's Avatar
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    I'd definitely say David Robinson. Remember the IBM Award? It was given out for 19 seasons to the NBA player, determined by a computer formula, who was sta ically the most valuable player to his team. Formula: (Player points-FGA+REB+AST+STL+BLK-PF-TO+(team wins x 10) x 250)/ (Team points-FGA+REB+AST+STL+BLK-PF-TO)

    No player won the award more than David (5-time winner). It takes a special player covering the entire 94'x50' floor to win this award. Someone able to achieve a quadruple double in a game speaks to his/her all-around ability.

    Analyzing each player's abilities and contributions to their respective teams, David gets my vote over Dirk without hesitation.

    1983-84 - Magic Johnson, L.A. Lakers
    1984-85 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
    1985-86 - Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
    1986-87 - Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
    1987-88 - Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
    1988-89 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
    1989-90 - David Robinson, San Antonio
    1990-91 - David Robinson, San Antonio
    1991-92 - Dennis Rodman, Detroit
    1992-93 - Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
    1993-94 - David Robinson, San Antonio
    1994-95 - David Robinson, San Antonio
    1995-96 - David Robinson, San Antonio
    1996-97 - Grant Hill, Detroit
    1997-98 - Karl Malone, Utah
    1998-99 - Dikembe Mutombo, Atlanta
    1999-00 - Shaquille O'Neal, LA Lakers
    2000-01 - Shaquille O'Neal, LA Lakers
    2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio

  16. #91
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    i'd definitely say david robinson. Remember the ibm award? It was given out for 19 seasons to the nba player, determined by a computer formula, who was sta ically the most valuable player to his team. Formula: (player points-fga+reb+ast+stl+blk-pf-to+(team wins x 10) x 250)/ (team points-fga+reb+ast+stl+blk-pf-to)

    no player won the award more than david (5-time winner). It takes a special player covering the entire 94'x50' floor to win this award. Someone able to achieve a quadruple double in a game speaks to his/her all-around ability.

    Analyzing each player's abilities and contributions to their respective teams, david gets my vote over dirk without hesitation.

    1983-84 - magic johnson, l.a. Lakers
    1984-85 - michael jordan, chicago
    1985-86 - charles barkley, philadelphia
    1986-87 - charles barkley, philadelphia
    1987-88 - charles barkley, philadelphia
    1988-89 - michael jordan, chicago
    1989-90 - david robinson, san antonio
    1990-91 - david robinson, san antonio
    1991-92 - dennis rodman, detroit
    1992-93 - hakeem olajuwon, houston
    1993-94 - david robinson, san antonio
    1994-95 - david robinson, san antonio
    1995-96 - david robinson, san antonio
    1996-97 - grant hill, detroit
    1997-98 - karl malone, utah
    1998-99 - dikembe mutombo, atlanta
    1999-00 - shaquille o'neal, la lakers
    2000-01 - shaquille o'neal, la lakers
    2001-02 - tim duncan, san antonio
    Can I get an Amen?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. #92
    Mr. Dignity Solid D's Avatar
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    Wow. Decapitalization must have taken you a while there Viva.

  18. #93
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Fin-dawg, I have nothing but respect for ya but this is junk. Straight up.
    Okay, maybe it's choking in the sense that at some point he needed to stop shooting and defer to guys who had it going, but choking is generally fear of the moment and shying away. 18 shot attempts means if anything he was trying to force the action and do too much. I guess that's choking. LeBron was deferring to Mario Chalmers and Udonis Haslem instead of taking charge.



    Your sig says it all. Dirk should still be grab-assing Terry because he deserves it. JET showed up in Game 6 and saved Dirks bacon
    Dirk I think went 5-6 in the fourth quarter and helped salt the game away. It would have been a blowout if he had shown up in the first half.

  19. #94
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Yeah - Robinson also never let his team lose a 2 game lead in the finals. How exactly was Robinson a playoff choker?

  20. #95
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    Yeah - Robinson also never let his team lose a 2 game lead in the finals. How exactly was Robinson a playoff choker?
    Yes, but Robinson could never lead his team to the Finals in a grab-bag WC that sent a different team each year...it's not like the Sonics, Rockets, Blazers, Suns, etc were goliaths. In fact only once did he lead his team as far as the WCF--and that led to one of the biggest 1-on-1 face- ings in history.

    I get it, D-Rob's a great player and a swell guy, but ya'll throat his scrote way too much, imho.

  21. #96
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    So Robinson averages (give or take a few) 24 points and 12 rebounds per game in the playoffs along with dominating defense but is a choker? What exactly was the man supposed to do?

  22. #97
    .. Andrew Cunanan's Avatar
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    So Robinson averages (give or take a few) 24 points and 12 rebounds per game in the playoffs along with dominating defense but is a choker? What exactly was the man supposed to do?
    I didn't say he was a choker...I'm saying he's not the demi-god most of you make him out to be. One conference Finals appearance in a grab-bag WC...color me unimpressed

  23. #98
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Yes, but Robinson could never lead his team to the Finals in a grab-bag WC that sent a different team each year...it's not like the Sonics, Rockets, Blazers, Suns, etc were goliaths. In fact only once did he lead his team as far as the WCF--and that led to one of the biggest 1-on-1 face- ings in history.

    I get it, D-Rob's a great player and a swell guy, but ya'll throat his scrote way too much, imho.
    So he should have averaged 30/20 then to not be considered a playoff choker? Hmm, I guess those players around him were tearing it up and I've just forgotten.

    The Sonics actually were pretty god damn good. Non Fat Kemp was a beast, Payton was in his prime, and they had Detlef Schrempf and players like Nate McMillian and Sam Perkins off the bench. The Suns had a pretty damn good team too with KJ and Barkley plus a of a bunch of role players. If the Suns had managed to get a center better than Fat Oliver Miller they would have been amazing. LOL @ Houston not being stacked. You didn't even bring up Utah even though they were pretty ing good during that period of course. They did have a better overall team than the Blazers early on but I'm not going to blame a rookie and call him a choker.

  24. #99
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I didn't say he was a choker...I'm saying he's not the demi-god most of you make him out to be. One conference Finals appearance in a grab-bag WC...color me unimpressed
    I never called him a demigod. You responded to a post where I specifically asked how he was a playoff choker. Maybe you should read what you're quoting next time.

  25. #100
    .. Andrew Cunanan's Avatar
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    Again, where have I called the man a choker?

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