http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...a_draft_062011With an eye on drafting Arizona’s Derrick Williams, the Indiana Pacers have discussed a package including center Roy Hibbert(notes) and the 15th pick for the Minnesota Timberwolves’ second overall pick, league sources said. Nevertheless, the overture hasn’t gained traction in Minnesota. …
Do they seriously have to think this over?
I hate the draft because it's really hard to scout and to me pretty much everyone in college sucks. I haven't watched Williams play a lot, but are people sold on him being a dominate player at this level? What is his ceiling?
Hibbert, while not great, is a very good defensive center with a solid offensive game. While the 15th pick isn't great, you can get a solid, but likely not spectacular piece.
I wouldn't do it. I know the Wolves wanna stop building via draft and get someone who can help them now, but Hibbert isn't that guy. Look for something better if you're Minny, IMO.
I would make this deal if I was Minn.
Hibbert is solid, but not spectacular. I don't think you can do this trade if you are Minny.
I am employed by several Arizona fansites and haven't missed a game in years. I feel I am more qualified than even the talking heads to discuss Williams.
My opinion is that for this draft, he's a top-3 pick. For an average draft, top-10. For a good draft, late lottery.
Williams' strengths are work ethic, coachability, offensive versatility, strength (even for NBA) and explosion (even for NBA). His weaknesses are relaxed defense most of the time, solid, but not dominant rebounding (even at the college level), perimeter quickness, especially off the dribble and on defense, and a loose handle. Now, There's nothing I've seen that tells me he can't be a better rebounder with the right coach screaming at him. Also, I think as he is developed on the wing that his handle will tighten. I'm not sure he'll ever be a great defender, even help-defender, despite having a great standing reach and 30+ vertical. Must be a timing thing, which may factor in to rebounding concerns as well.
Why Williams is valuable is largely based on his offense. He was one of the most efficient players in all of college basketball for the last two years. Before his hand injury late last season, he was averaging 2.3+ points per shot, was shooting 70% in the lane, 75% from FT, 45% on jumpers and 60% from three on roughly 2 attempts per game. His numbers went down a bit with the injury, but he was very consistent. While concerns of his game translating stem from his free throw rate (30% of his points were made FTs), I believe he will retain a high rate of FTs at the NBA level, despite no longer holding a height and athleticism advantage. Williams has unbelievable balance, is able to absorb contact and can contort to get the shot off from just about anywhere downlow. He's very explosive, is pretty strong and has a large wingspan. While his ability to draw the And-1 might decrease, I think his smarts and incredible physical ability allow him to score in the paint much of the time. At the same rate? No... but enough. Additionally, his jumper already translates well to the NBA mid-range due to his amazing college 3FG%. Furthermore, he's been practicing his NBA shot and is reportedly able to hit between 70-80% of his NBA threes in 100-shot simulations.
Where people split in opinion is potential. Williams, like myself, sees him developing some SF skills, if not outright developing into a SF. He has the athleticism, has the instincts. What he doesn't have is skills beyond shooting. However, one reason I wouldn't bet against him is his drive and coachability. Two years ago he was a 3-star prospect barely regarded as much entering college. He didn't have a lot of supporters. He's proven himself capable of adapting to multiple roles on offense, and has improved in efficiency in most every area. No, he's not the ideal SF right now, but he has potential and there's nothing in his recent history that should dissuade someone from thinking he'll do everything to maximize it.
Now, does he make sense for the Pacers with Granger and George? Not sure.
Regardless of his potential, I believe he's worth the risk. He's not a diva, works his ass off, brings a lot of offensive skills, and has the dynamic athleticism and body to really be effective at either PF or SF. His mentality is attack, but mostly focused on offense, so he needs a shift in philosophy, but I think he's willing.
Would I trade Hibbert and #15 for him? I'm biased. Yes. I would then trade Granger to Utah for Favors/filler and build around a George/Williams/Favors frontcourt.
Would I offer a Chris Webber-like haul for him? No. Maybe if he was 2 inches taller, or more proven as a SF scorer or PF defender (like a Love or Griffin who are both a bit undersized, but better rebounders).
I've long compared Williams to Al Harrington in skillset, but with a smarter overall game and better athleticism. Look back at Harrington's best years, is that worth Hibbert and a crappy 15th? I'd say yes, but maybe not within the Pacers' current roster.
On second thought a Rubio is going to need some athleticism to pass the ball to. Perhaps Derrick Williams can provide that.
I only watched Derrick in the tourney and he did great. My concern is the guy earned most of his draft stock in those few games.
Thanks for the breakdown. I was thinking that Hibbert + 15 wouldn't be enough anyways before knowing something about him, and it's likely even more true after reading that.
There is no doubt that Indy would do that; his skill set seems to fit with them. But I can't see Minny biting on that offer.
No he didn't. He was mocked as high as #1 all the way back to the first of the year. That solidified the high opinions of him, but his 27-8 game vs. Morris twins in November is what elevated his status, and his consistency on offense, highlight-reel finishing skills, and 65% 3FG kept him in the top-5 talks for the entire season. As other prospects like Perry Jones and Harrison Barnes slacked, his stock rose.
Remember when you tried dissing college ball by saying Hansbrough was the college GOAT?
calling Hansbrough the college GOAT
Okay, I only watch the college tourney. From what I heard I thought his draft stock had improved. Anyways like I said I was impressed by his play in the tourney.
I think Rubio will benefit from a guy like him with athleticism. If what you said about him being a late lottery pick in a good draft is true, I would make the trade for Hibbert.
I don't like College ball outside of the tourney. I diss college ball all the time and I was probably saying that Hans' numbers made him the college GOAT which is proved my point about it sucking.
D-Will was a top 10 pick before the tourney started, the tourney (or the 1st half of the Duke game in particular), is what made him a top 3 pick.
But his numbers don't make him the college GOAT
Did his numbers not rank up all time?
There's an obvious GOAT to college basketball, numbers wise, and overall achievement wise. Hansbrough won't be remembered as anything extremely special.
I can see this. Pacers might need to throw in George instead of #15. George would be a top-5 pick this year. Then again, I think pretty highly of George's potential at SF, so I don't know if I make that trade if I'm Indy.
Maybe just offer Granger/#15 to Minny for #2/Johnson/Randolph/Webster.
I think that's fair, that it makes sense roster-wise. Although, I do know Minny is actively seeking a defensive C in any trade for the pick.
That was my argument. That in college, a guy like Tyler can put up GOAT-like numbers and not be memorable. I wasn't arguing in favor of him.
That's not true. Various draft sites had him consistently in the top-3/5 since New Years, with a few swapping him back and forth at #1 and #2 from late January onward.
Williams only had one great game in four in March. He was alright vs. Memphis, but stole the show with the late block. He was pretty poor vs. Texas until late in the 2nd and the game-winning And-1. The Duke game maybe solidified the already thought opinions, but the opinions were already being discussed for months prior.
no it wasn't. You called Hansbrough the GOAT of college basketball when his numbers aren't GOAT-like at all.
What was the point of my argument, guy? It wasn't to say Tyler was awesome. Wasn't he the ACC's all time leading scorer?
You should use Christian Laettner over Psycho-T... Laettner was a top-5 college player, even earning an original Dream Team roster spot and, save for a few seasons early, was a fart in the wind in the NBA.
The landscape of college basketball likely doesn't move a meter without Hansbrough, but is altered radically without Laettner.
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