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i get it know. when comparing 2 players individual achievements dont cant for anything. only team achievements.
gotta love the NBA forum. it keeps you entertained.
Follow the thread, stick. I was responding to a comment about Malone.
Jesus you are a . For the Daddy of trolls, you act like the unwanted offspring of someone who the troll raped.
As for your stats, Derrick Fisher did all those same things...
Duncan never lost a Finals. Kobe lost 2. One of those was against the Detroit Pistons who the Spurs beat the following year.
Kobe is TMac with a bigger budget.
The mere fact that you have to compare your mega-super star big name huge market player to a small market Tim Duncan who's played along side Euro low draft picks his entire NBA career, while your guy has played alongside the best players in the game with Shaq and Pau, Ron Artest, Karl Malone and Gary Payton, just screams out insecurity and that you also don't believe the you spew.
But I ain't mad at ya.
Last edited by DMC; 06-26-2011 at 11:14 PM.
i get it know. when comparing 2 players individual achievements dont cant for anything. only team achievements.
gotta love the NBA forum. it keeps you entertained.
Ok, glad you aren't mad. I read the thread, you didn't. Try again. I knew you were talking about Malone, I mentioned that. I brought it back to Kobe, because some people seem to think 4-0 is greater than 5-2 because 4-0 is undefeated. It isn't and I explained why. Also, Kobe isn't my guy, I said that many times. I also said many arguments don't fit or aren't thought out. The Pistons who the Spurs beat in 2005 weren't the same team that beat the Lakers in 2004, just like the Nets the Spurs beat in 2003 4-2 weren't the same Nets the Lakers beat in 2002 4-0. One could foolishly say the Lakers of 2002 were better than the Spurs of 2003 because they beat the Nets in 4 games and it took the Spurs 6 games. It takes more than that to compare those two teams just as it does to compare the 2004 Lakers to the 2005 Spurs. Its simple, let me explain it. 2002 and 2004 Lakers > 2002 and 2004 Spurs respectively. 2003 and 2005 Spurs > 2003 and 2005 Lakers respectively. Comparing teams of different years is complicated, as can be seen when the Spurs fan base tries to rank their 1999, 2003, 2005, and 2007 championship teams.Follow the thread, stick. I was responding to a comment about Malone.
Jesus you are a . For the Daddy of trolls, you act like the unwanted offspring of someone who the troll raped.
As for your stats, Derrick Fisher did all those same things...
Duncan never lost a Finals. Kobe lost 2. One of those was against the Detroit Pistons who the Spurs beat the following year.
Kobe is TMac with a bigger budget.
The mere fact that you have to compare your mega-super star big name huge market player to a small market Tim Duncan who's played along side Euro low draft picks his entire NBA career, while your guy has played alongside the best players in the game with Shaq and Pau, Ron Artest, Karl Malone and Gary Payton, just screams out insecurity and that you also don't believe the you spew.
But I ain't mad at ya.
Back on point to why losing in the finals isn't a big deal. At least the team that lost got there, how on earth can they even think of winning it if they don't make it? By this logic, it's better not to even make the playoffs! Then no one beats you! Duncan never lost the finals, but he never defended his le in the finals. He only once made it as far as the WCF in his le defense, 2008. Those Spurs had no chance against Boston, but the Lakers take the big hit for losing it, even though they beat the defending champs 4-1. Lost in the shuffle is that Kobe's team beat Duncan's team, Kobe led the Lakers to victory in their one matchup without Shaq. Yeah, Kobe always had help, so did Duncan. No one player ever won a ring by themselves. Look at the Chicago Bulls franchise record outside of those 6 Jordan championships. It's a disaster! Why? Jordan didn't have teammates when he was new, and they never really ever had another true mega-star. The Spurs do way much better in non-championship years, but this isn't about comparing those two teams, it's about Tim vs. Kobe.
One more example of why undefeated finals marks don't always mean much. I made a thread months ago about Kobe Bryant and John Havlicek, who is one of the all time greats. Like Kobe, he spent some of his career as a "sidekick". He won 6 rings coattailing Russell and his stacked teams. Then, everyone good on the Celtics left, and the team was rebuilt around him. After missing the playoffs 2 straight years, new draft picks JoJo White and Dave Cowens jelled and Boston won 2 les, keeping Havlicek undefeated in the finals as the leader of his team. However, he falls short of Kobe's leadership from 2005-2011. The biggest stain on Havlicek's resume as leader is he lost 3 times in the ECF with home court advantage! The Knicks got him in 1972 and 1973, and Washington in 1975. In 1977 he got bounced in the 2nd round, and in 1978, Boston didn't even make the playoffs. (A third time under Havlicek). Then he retired. However, he remained undefeated in the finals! Those Celtics les of 1974 and 1976 were a bit lucky IMO. Milwaukee lost starting SG Lucius Allen, and the Big O played hurt. He retired after that year, his body was broken. In 1976, the defending champion Warriors were upset in the WCF by the 42-40 Phoenix Suns. Golden State would have had HCA in the finals had they made it.
Some of the Tim vs. Kobe arguments don't belong. Comparing their teams and teammates really complicates things. Opinions will vary, but no one can prove a thing, it's too close.
Rings as alpha male:
Duncan 4
Kobe 1
/thread
Kobe 'Second Option' Bryant. It's got a ring to it, and that's how he got 3 of them.
Since Duncan has been in the league, how many times has his team missed the playoffs?
Kobe?
Why's the welcher still posting here?
And why people get trolled by his idiotic Kobe threads?
Only GNSF is getting trolled. Replying doesn't necessarily indicate being trolled. Don't you see we have actually engaged in serious basketball discussion amidst Kool's failed attempt to troll?
you can't hold my jock...whether I'm trolling or delivering the goods...go back and look at my bball takes in this thread alone...you're a light weight son...
that would be 4 - 2 if you say 4-1 you are an imbecile or Pau's gay love slave ...
You were doing fine until you got all emo ...Follow the thread, stick. I was responding to a comment about Malone.
Jesus you are a . For the Daddy of trolls, you act like the unwanted offspring of someone who the troll raped.
As for your stats, Derrick Fisher did all those same things...
Duncan never lost a Finals. Kobe lost 2. One of those was against the Detroit Pistons who the Spurs beat the following year.
Kobe is TMac with a bigger budget.
The mere fact that you have to compare your mega-super star big name huge market player to a small market Tim Duncan who's played along side Euro low draft picks his entire NBA career, while your guy has played alongside the best players in the game with Shaq and Pau, Ron Artest, Karl Malone and Gary Payton, just screams out insecurity and that you also don't believe the you spew.
But I ain't mad at ya.
One last note Kobe is on a list even rarer than "4x champion" ....
Kobe is one of a few "alpha males" to defend his le. That list excludes: Bird, Duncan, Wade, Moses, Wilt etc.
Since 1980:
Magic (87-88),
Isiah (89-90),
MJ (with 2 3 peats, that is why he is GOAT)
Hakeem (the MJ baseball years but still AMAZING)
Shaq (yes he was the alpha for the first two, I say co-alpha by the 3 peat)
Kobe (09-10)
again for every pro duncan case, there is a Kobe case as well. Again very close to me but it's Kobe ...
There was never a debate.
Tim will always be > Kobe.
The Lakers defended their le. Not Kobe alone defending the Kobe 1on1 le. got
aww so like many on here you ended your case after 2007? even if Duncna>Kobe now you cant make an asinine statement like that ...oh wait you just did ...
Kobe won
Kobe repeated
Kobe 3peated
Kobe won
Kobe repeated
Tim won
Tim won
Tim won
Tim won
Tim done
LOL getting all upset ...so let me get this straight. duncan's 4>1 as alpha but when he did NOT defend the le then it was because he lost as a "team" is that right?
Just like when Kobe missed the playoffs or lost in the first round that is on Kobe but the last two les are because Pau Gasol was the "alpha male"?!
You guys are hilarious ...
Hence why you ignore my arguments because they all over yours. If Kobe is a better INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, why does Duncan destroy him in individual accolades?
"B-b-b-but Kobe has been to 7 Finals
And lost two while Timothy Theodore Duncan has lost no series in the Finals, took his team there as the undisputed best player and number one option, displayed much better performances on the biggest stage, and never missed the playoffs.
What Kobe did with Shaq is irrelevant when being compared to Duncan because he's scoring all these points while the best player on the planet (at the time) was on his team getting tripled teamed so Mr. Rapist could operate more freely on the perimeter. Fact.
Bill Russell is the only alpha male to 8-peat.
Russell = G.O.A.T.
My up in here spittin FiYUHHHHH
Kobe: 5Hence why you ignore my arguments because they all over yours. If Kobe is a better INDIVIDUAL PLAYER, why does Duncan destroy him in individual accolades?
"
And lost two while Timothy Theodore Duncan has lost no series in the Finals, took his team there as the undisputed best player and number one option, displayed much better performances on the biggest stage, and never missed the playoffs.
What Kobe did with Shaq is irrelevant when being compared to Duncan because he's scoring all these points while the best player on the planet (at the time) was on his team getting tripled teamed so Mr. Rapist could operate more freely on the perimeter. Fact.
Duncan: 4
How's that for accolades?
Kobe - 5
Duncan - 4
That's all folks
To me, a winning a le depends a lot on the players around your superstar(s). Obviously your team is only going to go as far as your best player can carry you but he needs his teammates to step it up and bail him out. Kobe fans should know better than anyone that 1 player can't do it by himself.
When I personally weigh the greatest players, I look at their rings in context. Because everyone likes to bring up Horry or K.C. Jones or some , you have to put some guidelines on this. Did Kobe lead his Lakers are the undisputed best player and #1 option on offense? In 2009 and 2010 I would say yes, but from 2000-2002 Shaq was CLEARLY the better player and the alpha on those teams. Those were Shaq's Lakers, not Kobe's. And while Kobe did put up some legendary performances in the Western playoffs, he was not their best player. This is Spurfans who try to argue that Manu was our best player in 2005 when it was easily Tim because of the tremendous impact he had in all facets of the game.
Trolling aside I think Kobe is a top 11-15 player of all-time. Perhaps me being a Spurs fan makes me biased as well as most Laker fans in here picking Kobe, but there is no way you can say that Kobe Bryant has more impact on a basketball game than Tim Duncan. I will concede that Bryant was a great man defender many years ago but he never had the ability to anchor an all-time elite defense like Tim Duncan.
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