Matt Bonner Offseason 11/12 Training Video Inside

[ElNono]

Exactly. The ignorance of looking at small samples. A couple of shots rattle out, and the guy can't score in the playoffs. A couple of those shots fall, and he's the best shooter in the world.

3 straight playoffs is a small sample? How much longer we need to wait?

[Sean Cagney]

regular season Bonner shot .457 from 3 point range

playoff Bonner this year was 6 of 18 for .333
Two more makes and playoff Bonner is .444
Three more makes and playoff Bonner is .500

lol the truth.

How about one less or two less? SO you are saying if he makes more he is .500!!!!!! 6 threes in 6 games! HOLY thats great and game changing . He is not good in the playoffs, .333 is not good! He should make more the time he is out there.

BTW he was shooting 54% until later in the year, that number dipped at the end of the year when softies annual slump started to happen as usual. He gives up more pts on D than he makes threes easily and doesn't rebound, so why is he good again?


If he did not get so many minutes I would not mind, but this dude is a key player in the rotation and if his shot is not falling he is horrible out there.

[Sean Cagney]

Exactly. The ignorance of looking at small samples. A couple of shots rattle out, and the guy can't score in the playoffs. A couple of those shots fall, and he's the best shooter in the world.

They don't bother to look at how many of those were desperation shots taken right at the buzzer, because the offense stalled. And they don't need to remember things like passes that were so far off the mark that he had to reach and get re-set, which gave the defender time to close. (Shots that would have been wide open, if the pass had been delivered decently.)

Bonner can't defend Zach Randolph heads up, everyone knows it. But it's not like there was a lot of help defense going on in that series - at least not by the Spurs.

Simple minds look for simple answers. And most of the time they find them. The fact is, the biggest reasons the Spurs lost that series were all on the Memphis side of the equation. And on the Spurs' side, the biggest factors were Tony being off his game and RJ being a non-factor.

Get f in real he does this crap every year bro! Some rattled out, okay so they did not go in and he shot 33% right? What about last year and the year before? What did he shoot? This guy can't guard anyone from Randolph to Gasol to Aurthur etc. etc. when he entered the game to cover Aurthur I knew he would get lit up He did at will.

Tony being off his game hurt alot yes, Hill not being in there balling sucked as well! RJ is just RJ, but he made the same threes as Bonner so they both did just about nothing! Spurs lost for several Reasons, Bonners D was defintely one of them so yes he is part to blame.

I remember Horry hitting 5 threes in a game or Bowen hitting 7! Finley 8! Kerr 4 and on and on, in one DAMN GAME! 6 -18 in a series is not getting it done, a three a game with that horrible D he has and no rebounding makes him a burden out there

[itzsoweezee]

Bonner was brought in to make 3 pointers. That's what he did better than anyone in the league.

Except when it mattered, got. Numerous playoff collapses have closed the book on Boner. He's a scrub, and he always will be.

[Halberto]

LOL at making the kid get the ball.... he really hates to rebound eh?

[Blake]

How about one less or two less? SO you are saying if he makes more he is .500!!!!!! 6 threes in 6 games! HOLY thats great and game changing . He is not good in the playoffs, .333 is not good! He should make more the time he is out there.

9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

HOLY it's almost July and the Bonner/Pop hate is still incredibly strong.

[Warlord23]

9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

Yes, Bonner being the worst rebounder as well as the worst defender among all PFS in the entire NBA playoffs means that he needs to make a lot more than 9 FGs in a series to be a net positive.

[ElNono]

9 threes in 6 games shooting .500 would have changed nothing either.

Not so sure about that. When somebody is shooting lights out (and .50 would've been lights out), you have to pay attention to him. Which is the entire premise of "stretching the floor". It's not volume scoring, but to be enough of a threat to force the other team to pay attention to you, opening the middle to your teammates.

Lots of these games were close too. Not sure it would've worked in the long run, but Matty has more problems than just a weak mind on offense.

HOLY it's almost July and the Bonner/Pop hate is still incredibly strong.

Why wouldn't it be?
Pop keeps trotting that walking liability for 20mpg, and he's still in the roster.

[Blake]

Yes, Bonner being the worst rebounder as well as the worst defender among all PFS in the entire NBA playoffs means that he needs to make a lot more than 9 FGs in a series to be a net positive.

I'm not sure any of the Spurs were net positives for the entire Memphis series.

Bonner +/-

game 1 (L): -10

game 2 (W): +3

game 3 (L): -10

game 4 (L): -3 (best +/- on team (playing more than 6 minutes))

game 5 (W): 0

game 6 (L): +8 (best +/- on team)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...42929&old_bs=1


If the Spurs had pulled out game 1, Bonner would have been a hero with his 4th quarter late threes.

The continued hate for Bonner is incredibly ridiculous.

[Blake]

Why wouldn't it be?
Pop keeps trotting that walking liability for 20mpg, and he's still in the roster.

because it's not all Bonner's fault.

All of the Spurs sucked at key times in the series, Bonner less than others.

[ElNono]

And back to cherry picking plus/minus to gauge individual player performance...

We've come full circle here...

And the hate is not entirely on Matty who is a rather mediocre talent (nothing new there), is also at Pop for handing out such mediocre talent that big of a role.

[ElNono]

because it's not all Bonner's fault.

All of the Spurs sucked at key times in the series.

Nobody is saying is all Bonner's fault. Heck, I've personally been cautious to point that out time and time again. He's a significant part of the problem though (well, the combination of him being mediocre and Pop handing him a large role). This has been a weak spot in this roster for 3 seasons going... ofcourse people are tired of seeing the same over and over again.

[ElNono]

IOW, it doesn't matter how good a defender Leonard is if you still have such a weak link inside. That's why people keep on harping on this point. We're not going to get better defensively giving a clear path to the basket for 20mpg...

[ElNono]

And Mel_13 can attest my hate for Bonner has been unwavering in at least the past 3+ seasons...

[Blake]

And back to cherry picking plus/minus to gauge individual player performance...

No cherry picking. Warlord23 brought up net positives. Just pointing out what the +/- stats actually were.

And the hate is not entirely on Matty who is a rather mediocre talent (nothing new there), is also at Pop for handing out such mediocre talent that big of a role.

Right. Bonner/Pop hate.

I'm wondering where the Pop/Bonner hate was right after the regular season was over and the Spurs had the #1 seed in the West.

Ridiculous, imo.

[ElNono]

No cherry picking. Warlord23 brought up net positives. Just pointing out what the +/- stats actually were.

Plus/Minus are calculated on entire 5 man lineups. There's no actual way to gauge individual plus/minus as players don't play alone. Which is why it's a terrible stat to extrapolate individual performance from.

I didn't take his 'net positive' to indicate a reference to plus/minus, but as to his contributions vs what he gives away.

Right. Bonner/Pop hate.

I'm wondering where the Pop/Bonner hate was right after the regular season was over and the Spurs had the #1 seed in the West.

I was still calling it fool's gold. Sorry you missed it.
Bonner's 3 point shooting sinking in the last month of the regular season was just a prelude of what we knew was coming. He was just getting in playoff's form. I even admitted that I would give him his due if he didn't choke this time around. He just insists in making my predictions about him look good.

Ridiculous, imo.

What's ridiculous is that we threw money at this guy last season when we could've let him walk.

[Blake]

Plus/Minus are calculated on entire 5 man lineups. There's no actual way to gauge individual plus/minus as players don't play alone. Which is why it's a terrible stat to extrapolate individual performance from.

I didn't take his 'net positive' to indicate a reference to plus/minus, but as to his contributions vs what he gives away.

right.

his +/- during the series does nothing really to indicate that he deserves so much hate.

Please explain what he gave away that deserves so much hate.

I was still calling it fool's gold. Sorry you missed it.
Bonner's 3 point shooting sinking in the last month of the regular season was just a prelude of what we knew was coming. He was just getting in playoff's form. I even admitted that I would give him his due if he didn't choke this time around. He just insists in making my predictions about him look good.

Where exactly did he choke?

What's ridiculous is that we threw money at this guy last season when we could've let him walk.

I don't have any problems with the Spurs paying $3 million for the NBAs top 3 point shooter. Still not sure why a lot of people do.

That's why it's funny.

[cheguevara]

Bonner is a NBDL caliber player playing prime NBA minutes. If someone does not see a problem there, they are in a pretty sad state themselves.

[Mel_13]

And Mel_13 can attest my hate for Bonner has been unwavering in at least the past 3+ seasons...

This is true.

ElNono is no bandwagoner or Johnny-come-lately when we're talking about Bonner hate.

He's been steadfast in his position since the 08-09 season.

[Blake]

Bonner is a NBDL caliber player playing prime NBA minutes.

what are you basing this NBDL caliber assumption on?

If someone does not see a problem there, they are in a pretty sad state themselves.

I think the hate for Bonner/Pop for the last three years has been sad.....yet funny.

[cheguevara]

what are you basing this NBDL caliber assumption on?

on the fact that every opponent that faces a Bonner 1-1 defense starts salivating and eyes light up. Then proceeds to break Bonner's ankles and 90% of the time results in points for their team.

on the fact that Bonner always looks over at Pop everytime he does something stupid which is 80% of the time.

on the fact when he faces a hand in his face while shooting 3s. His % drops to around 20%.

[Warlord23]

+/- is so flawed that I'm not sure if Blake is trolling by quoting Bonner's +/- stats.

When Lebron James scored 29 of the last 30 points in game 5 of the '07 ECF vs the Pistons to lead the Cavs to an improbable victory on the road, Boobie Gibson and Sasha Pavlovic had the same +/- as James over that stretch, so do they get equal credit as James for that victory?

A player can achieve a +/- score either by willing his team single-handedly to victory with little help from his teammates, or get the same score by standing around doing nothing watching a superstar carry his team.

[Warlord23]

Imagine the following sequence:

Ginobili and-1 for 3 points
Bonner dunked on by Darrel Arthur for 2 points
Ginobili hits a 3 off a Duncan screen
Bonner gets dunked on by Z-Bo for 2 points
Bonner misses wide open 3
Bonner gets dunked on by Sam Young for 2 points
Ginobili makes a tough runner in the lane for 2 points
Bonner gives up an offensive rebound and putback by Shane Battier for 2 points

Since both the Spurs and Grizz score 8 points over the above stretch, Bonner's +/- is the same as Ginobili's. Does that indicate that Bonner did as good a job (giving up 8 points, giving up an offensive rebound, missing his only shot) as Ginobili (scored 8 points on 3 shots, makes no mistake on defense)?

[cheguevara]

Bonner is known around the league as the guy who when is on the floor, you give the ball to whoever he is guarding. He makes basketball easy... for the opponent. This is a known fact which was made famous with Rasheed Wallace.

6 ing years and this does not change.

[ElNono]

right.

his +/- during the series does nothing really to indicate that he deserves so much hate.

His +/- is a terrible gauge of his individual performance in the series, period.
Same applies to every other Spurs for that matter. It's just the wrong stat to gauge player's individual performances, simply because there's much more better stats for that.

Please explain what he gave away that deserves so much hate.

He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field. It's the same Darrell Arthur that could only shoot 38% in the next round and averages 46% career-wise. By Game 4, we were commenting in the game thread how Arthur was going straight at him for 3+ consecutive possessions, even when ZBo was out there on the floor.

Then the usual stuff he gives up due to his general inep ude to box out, rebound and take charges: Second chances, 3 point plays...

Where exactly did he choke?

Really?

Season RS-3P% Playoffs-3P%
08-09 44% 23%
09-10 39% 37%
10-11 46% 33%

He's our "3 point specialist", and the reason is that he's absolutely mediocre at anything else. If he can't even provide his specialty, then he's pretty much useless.

I don't have any problems with the Spurs paying $3 million for the NBAs top 3 point shooter. Still not sure why a lot of people do.

He's not the NBA's top 3 point shooter. He wasn't in the regular season and obviously not even close in the playoffs, when it really matters, for a team that supposedly had championship aspirations. And the Spurs are paying him a guaranteed $9 million over 3 years. Heck, $12 million if they pick up the last year's option.

That's why it's funny.

What's going to be funny is when we have to add Splitter as a sweetner to dump that contract because nobody would take on it otherwise