Matt Bonner Offseason 11/12 Training Video Inside

[Blake]

Blake, if you stopped looking at just stats and watch the actual games I wouldn't know how you could say what you are saying with a strait face.

I did watch the games.

I hated all the Spurs equally for their poor playoff performances.

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

[Blake]

Its just as funny watching you attepting to defend Bonner with useless stats.

It's funnier that you think I'm defending Bonner.

[cheguevara]

I did watch the games.

I hated all the Spurs equally for their poor playoff performances.

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

go back and watch the last 3 playoff runs. Bonner sucked in every single one of them.

Tell me 1 current spur player not named RJ that has sucked on a more consistent basis?

[underdawg]

$3 million a year is fair for Bonner, imo.

I still don't see a good reason for the hate.

That's where the problem lies - Bonner making 3 mil on another team might be alright, but on the Spurs it's wasted in his lack of an all around game.

The Spurs had 8 players making over $1 mil last year and only 6 making $3 mil or more. What did a $3 million player like Bonner get the Spurs in the playoffs? A total of 2 assists, one block and one steal in 6 games in 20 mpg.

Again this might be ok for a team like Dallas that had 14 players on their team making over $1 million, but on a team like the Spurs it's not enough.

[Warlord23]

you brought up net positives, not me. +/- shows net positives and negatives for the team when a player is on the floor.

If you have stats that aren't flawed that justify the hate, please provide. I'd love to see them.



you brought up net positives.

statistically show how Bonner was a net negative, deserving of such hate.

Is there a statistic that proves that Bowen deserved his All-Defensive selections? Is there a stat that shows that any particular player is the MVP? Not everything needs a statistic to be accepted as true.

[cheguevara]

In PLAYOFF games where Bonner has gotten > 10 MPG:
18MPG
37%FG
31%3P
3.2 Rebounds
0.2 Steals
0.2 Blocks
5.1 Points

yes. Spursfans who hate Bonner have no reason to do so

[ElNono]

Define 'bulk'

"the greater part"

I don't care enough about your hatred for Bonner to verify your claims.

Sure you don't.
That's why you're still answering.

you:

Me: "He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."
You: you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"

So I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".
That's what I thought.

I don't care to prove the hate is misguided.

I think it's hilarious that nobody can really justify their own hate for Bonner.

I've also never entertained the notion that Bonner is better than mediocre.

I disagree. I think it's been rehashed many times, and season after season Matty and Pop drive the points home. Heck, I remember being in the minority three seasons ago, unlike now, when there's a fairly large bandwagon.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that there's still people out there that can justify Bonner being around and handed the contract and role he has, or denying he has choked time and time again. Especially those that acknowledge him to be mediocre.

so you are talking about the 2% drop during the playoffs from the regular season.

No.

such choking has never been seen in the history of choking

Strawman. How much he choked doesn't make him any less of a choker. Especially when that's his specialty and the only thing that brings to the table.

Such extreme hate on this board for a rather average/mediocre player.

Define 'extreme hate'?

I did. Which two or three shots exactly did he miss that you believe would have swayed the series in favor of the Spurs?

Already answered. Posted once and re-quoted one more time.

Keeping on venting about a guy you really don't have much reason to hate on. It's good stuff.

You bet I'm gonna keep venting until he's gone. Especially after the plus/minus apologist brigade comes around.

As che said: It's in Pop's hands.

[ElNono]

I don't see where Bonner gets the extra hate while others get a pass.

Who do you think gets a pass? Serious question.

[Blake]

Who do you think gets a pass? Serious question.

I don't think anyone should get a pass.

That's why I find these Bonner hate threads calling him a "choker" funny.

[ElNono]

I don't think anyone should get a pass.

I'm gonna admit I give more leeway to 1st year players. IMO, guys like Neal are just getting his feet wet, and I really can't hold him to the same standards as a vet.

That's why I find these Bonner hate threads calling him a "choker" funny.

Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with.

[jjktkk]

I'm gonna admit I give more leeway to 1st year players. IMO, guys like Neal are just getting his feet wet, and I really can hold him to the same standards as a vet.



Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with.

Cue Geroge Hill's fantasy owner, tjastal.

[Blake]

"the greater part"

your basing such hate on a vague definiton?

telling.

Sure you don't.
That's why you're still answering.

Right, I don't.

That's why I'm still not searching thru old threads.

Me: "He allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."
You: you said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner"

So I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner".
That's what I thought.

Who is the "he" in "he allowed Darrell Arthur to shoot 55%"?

I disagree. I think it's been rehashed many times, and season after season Matty and Pop drive the points home. Heck, I remember being in the minority three seasons ago, unlike now, when there's a fairly large bandwagon.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that there's still people out there that can justify Bonner being around and handed the contract and role he has, or denying he has choked time and time again. Especially those that acknowledge him to be mediocre.

I'm not really denying he's choked as much as I'm saying that the instances where you say he's choked aren't choke jobs.

Mediocrity is nothing to really hate Bonner on, imo.

No.

you said 37%.
39% is what he shot in the regular season 2009-2010
37% is what he shot in the playoffs 2009-2010.
2% drop.
severe hate.

Strawman. How much he choked doesn't make him any less of a choker. Especially when that's his specialty and the only thing that brings to the table.

it would be a strawman if I actually thought he choked.

Do you hate all such 2% chokers equally or just Bonner?

Define 'extreme hate'?

Threads started to make fun of Bonner, pictures doing the same and posters saying they have hated Bonner for years and will continue to do so until Pop removes him.

Extreme hate, imo.

Already answered. Posted once and re-quoted one more time.

You never answered which exact shots in which exact game.

You re-quoted your non-answer.

You bet I'm gonna keep venting until he's gone. Especially after the plus/minus apologist brigade comes around.

As che said: It's in Pop's hands.

Extreme hate, imo.

[Blake]

Well, the OP was about only Bonner. You want to make a thread to harp about Tony disappearing for a couple of games, I'm sure you'll find some people to harp along with.

I'm sure I would. He played a lot worse than many of us expected him to.

That said, I don't think Bonner played a whole lot worse than many of us expected him to, yet the hate threads appear to be worse.

I haven't seen any offseason training video threads of Parker or girl hair photoshop pics of him..... have you?

[Stalin]

mediocre troll job, 5/10

[ElNono]

your basing such hate on a vague definiton?

Could you please describe how much I hate Bonner?
Please be specific.

Right, I don't. That's why I'm still not searching thru old threads.

As I said before, much to my entertainment, you're still engaged in this conversation. That's why you definitely care.

Who is the "he" in "he allowed a guy like Darrell Arthur to shoot 55%"?

Matt Bonner...

So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think so.

I'm not really denying he's choked

There it is.

as much as I'm saying that the instances where you say he's choked aren't choke jobs.

Mediocrity is nothing to really hate Bonner on, imo.

Well, I provided some information to back up my choking claims. If you don't want to verify them, or counter them, because you don't care or otherwise, then that's entirely on you.

And I never claimed I hate Bonner because he's mediocre. I did state he is mediocre, but not the reason for the hate. Not sure where you got that from. Quote?

you said 37%.
39% is what he shot in the regular season 2009-2010
37% is what he shot in the playoffs 2009-2010.
2% drop.
severe hate.

No, I said:

Ultimately, I can argue he sucked all season long. 37% for somebody that brings absolutely nothing else to the table is not enough to offset what he gives up on the other end.

And I pointed out where the 37% came from.

it would be a strawman if I actually thought he choked.

I'm not really denying he's choked

Do you hate all such 2% chokers equally or just Bonner?

I hate equally as much players that choke 15% for 8 games and show up only for 2.

Threads started to make fun of Bonner, pictures doing the same and posters saying they have hated Bonner for years and will continue to do so until Pop removes him.

We know what's on the thread. It's not like we can't go back and read it.

You're ing about people hating on Bonner on a Bonner thread? I don't see what the problem is with that.

You never answered which exact shots in which exact game. You re-quoted your non-answer.

Sure I answered. That the answer lacks the specificity you like doesn't make it incorrect or invalid. Spurs lost 2 games by 3 points (Games 1 and 3).

Is your claim that making or missing 2 or 3 shots couldn't change a game or a series?

[ElNono]

I'm sure I would. He played a lot worse than many of us expected him to.

That said, I don't think Bonner played a whole lot worse than many of us expected him to, yet the hate threads appear to be worse.

Threads hating on Bonner have been around for years.

They got even worse last summer after he was re-signed and after he choked one more time in the playoffs.

I can only rate Bonner for the role he's handed to him, and the responsibilities he's given. If I had to go with expectations, he delivered exactly what I thought.

I haven't seen any offseason training video threads of Parker or girl hair photoshop pics of him..... have you?

I'm sure mouse would be happy to oblige...

[ElNono]

FWIW, breakdown of Arthur vs Spurs (for the series)...

Regular season FG%: 49.7%

Series FG%: 55% (22-40)

w/Bonner in game: 52.9% (18-34)

w/o Bonner: 67% (4-6)

More granularity:

v Bonner/Blair: 62.5% (5-8)

v Bonner/Duncan: 60% (6-10)

v Bonner/Dice: 50% (1-2)

v Bonner/Splitter: 42.9% (6-14)

[ElNono]

Oh, and thanks to the person that provided that breakdown and wishes to remain anonymous...

[Blake]

Could you please describe how much I hate Bonner?
Please be specific.

enough to say that you have hated him for years and will continue to do so.

You specifically said so.

As I said before, much to my entertainment, you're still engaged in this conversation. That's why you definitely care.

I am interested in your continued hate. I don't care about your claim that you are too lazy to back up.

Matt Bonner...

I thought so.

So, I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think so.

You said "he allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field."

How exactly did he allow it if he wasnt directly guarding him?

There it is.

I'm not saying he did choke. I am thinking he didn't choke, but am open to any hard evidence that he did.

You are flat out saying he choked.

Well, I provided some information to back up my choking claims. If you don't want to verify them, or counter them, because you don't care or otherwise, then that's entirely on you.

If you want to claim he choked while providing very little as to what defines a choke job, then that's on you.

And I never claimed I hate Bonner because he's mediocre. I did state he is mediocre, but not the reason for the hate. Not sure where you got that from. Quote?

I put the two together.

If that's not it, then why the hate? Is it the salary?

And I pointed out where the 37% came from.

fine. clearly point out where it's from again.

I hate equally as much players that choke 15% for 8 games and show up only for 2.

k.

I guess we all have our own formulas for hate.

We know what's on the thread. It's not like we can't go back and read it.

You're ing about people hating on Bonner on a Bonner thread? I don't see what the problem is with that.

Not ing. Feel free to hate.

I'll lol.

Sure I answered. That the answer lacks the specificity you like doesn't make it incorrect or invalid. Spurs lost 2 games by 3 points (Games 1 and 3).

It was my question. If I say you didn't answer it right, then you didn't.

If you don't want to answer any more specifically, just say so.

Is your claim that making or missing 2 or 3 shots couldn't change a game or a series?

No.

You are saying that Bonner three point shooting took a nosedive during the playoffs.

I'm saying two-three more makes, and Bonner is shooting good-fantastic from three.

I'm asking if you think there are two-three shots that Bonner missed that would have made a difference in this series.

[Blake]

Is there a statistic that proves that Bowen deserved his All-Defensive selections? Is there a stat that shows that any particular player is the MVP? Not everything needs a statistic to be accepted as true.

actually, yes, there are some stats to back up Bowen deserving defensive selections and stats to back up MVP candidates.

if you are hating Bonner simply on TV screen value, then that's even more of an lol.

[ElNono]

enough to say that you have hated him for years and will continue to do so.

Can you quantify 'enough' for me with any specificity? Thanks.

You said "he allowed a guy like Arthur to shoot 55% from the field." How exactly did he allow it if he wasnt directly guarding him?

He was directly responsible for guarding him for a good amount of the game. Arthur actually took 85% (34) of his shots when Bonner was in the game, and only 15% (6) when he was not.

So....I never said "Arthur shot 55% against Bonner". I didn't think I did.

I'm not saying he did choke.

I'm not really denying he's choked

Make up your mind.

If you want to claim he choked while providing very little as to what defines a choke job, then that's on you.

I think I provided more than you ever will. You don't have to like it or be satisfied with it though.

I put the two together.
If that's not it, then why the hate? Is it the salary?

Well, you put the two together wrong. I've said why I hate Bonner before.

Since your claim is that...

I am interested in your continued hate

...I'm sure you can look it up. Or you're not that much interested?

I guess we all have our own formulas for hate.

We sure do.

Not ing.

Sure you are. But keep on being interested in my hate so I can be further entertained.

It was my question. If I say you didn't answer it right, then you didn't.

Who cares who made the question. The response was absolutely proper and right.

No.

So two or three made/missed shots can change a game or series. Makes sense.

[Warlord23]

actually, yes, there are some stats to back up Bowen deserving defensive selections and stats to back up MVP candidates.

if you are hating Bonner simply on TV screen value, then that's even more of an lol.

All of those stats can be interpreted in different ways. Some years the scoring champion wins MVP, some years he doesn't. Some years the MVP plays on the team with the best record, some years he doesn't. There is no definitive statistical formula or method to decide on an MVP. You will not be able to statistically prove the long list of anomalies in MVP and other awards voting using statistics (e.g. why LeBron won MVP in 09 and 10, but not in 08; why Rose won it this year; why Nash won MVP over Shaq in 05 but didn't win over Dirk in 07). There is no statistic that can logically and consistently explain every single MVP award.

"TV screen value" = watching games, with an understanding of basketball. TV screen value is what decides voting for MVP and all other awards. If you don't think this is the best way to judge a player's value, you're essentially alone in this opinion against coaches, sports journalists etc who watch games and then vote on player value.

[TJastal]

Anyone who actually defends Bonner's worthless playoff performances should be automatically pinked for 1 month for each post.

If I counted right, that would be 2 years of pinkage for Blake (just in this thread alone).

[nkdlunch]

poor troll job by Blake IMO

[nkdlunch]

In PLAYOFF games where Bonner has gotten > 10 MPG:
18MPG
37%FG
31%3P
3.2 Rebounds
0.2 Steals
0.2 Blocks
5.1 Points

yes. Spursfans who hate Bonner have no reason to do so

this should close the thread.

Bonner gave us 5 and 3 careerwise in the playoffs when he is actually used. Bury this at the end of the bench next season please.