Kawhi Leonard - thoughts from someone who's actually seen him play

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the post, EHJ.

[Mr. Body]

It's a major plus Leonard even knows who James Worthy is. I like it when a player knows the past. Even if he was a dirty Laker.

[ohmwrecker]

Butler was never projected as a lottery level talent:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...draft-history/

I was implying that he would have been lottery level talent in this year's draft, imo. I didn't state that clearly though.

[Mel_13]

I was implying that he would have been lottery level talent in this year's draft, imo. I didn't state that clearly though.

If that's true, the Spurs are sitting pretty.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

By the way, Ed Helicopter Jones, Leonard says he likes to model his game after James Worthy's

Do you see any similarities?

Thanks

I think they both have that ability to get out on the break and make pretty good decisions with the basketball. Worthy was bigger than Leonard, and definitely had a more polished all-around game.

I saw glimpses of Leonard being able to play with his back to the basket or facing it. I remember Worthy being pretty versatile in the post as well. I think as Kawhi's body matures he'll be able to post up bigger players simply because his body is so long. Worthy was a lot stronger than this 19-year old.

Other than both of them being extremely mobile forwards I think it's a bit of a reach comparing him to James Worthy at this point. But I believe he has tremendous upside, and has a lot of the same raw tools that Worthy had.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm just curious to know if you have an opinion of his overall BBIQ, after watching him so much.

I saw a big difference in his game from his freshman to his sop re year. That shows me that he's a pretty quick study. Primarily on the offensive side of the ball I saw him doing a lot more with the ball in his hands in year two. As a freshman he mostly just cleaned up the trash, but some of the offense started to go through him as a sop re. I think his offensive game will continue to improve. I think he'll pick up Pop's schemes fairly well. I'm sure he'll suffer through some of the rookie dog days that Pop tends to dole out, but I don't think they'll be as severe as we've seen with a few other rookies through the years.

[silverblk mystix]

Anyone can answer this;

Does anyone think that Pop will actually allow him to play?

Does anyone else think that Pop will be the biggest obstacle to this rookie's success?

I have no faith whatsoever that Pop will allow this rookie plenty of playing time to get the rookie mistakes out of his system.

I have plenty of faith that all the Pop apologists will be here at the end of next season making excuses for Pop and parroting the old, " It takes two years for new players to really excel in Pop's system...blah...blah..."

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Anyone can answer this;

Does anyone think that Pop will actually allow him to play?

Does anyone else think that Pop will be the biggest obstacle to this rookie's success?

I have no faith whatsoever that Pop will allow this rookie plenty of playing time to get the rookie mistakes out of his system.

I have plenty of faith that all the Pop apologists will be here at the end of next season making excuses for Pop and parroting the old, " It takes two years for new players to really excel in Pop's system...blah...blah..."

I think if Leonard gets significant court time he's going to catch an earful from Pop in similar fashion to Parker during his rookie campaign. Hopefully Kawhi will take it and not get flustered by it. If he panicks or gets tentative he'll be in trouble. TP needs to spend a little time teaching Kawhi in the way of the Pop.

Pop takes a lot of what guys are showing in practice as his basis for seeing the court in games. I think this is where Kawhi should have an advantage because I don't know if anyone on the Spurs will have a better work ethic. If he can stay confident he should be fine as far as seeing minutes goes.

[jimo2305]

i didn't see anyone post this interview yet.. but if anyone did.. my bad..

[Vic Petro]

Anyone can answer this;

Does anyone think that Pop will actually allow him to play?

Does anyone else think that Pop will be the biggest obstacle to this rookie's success?

I have no faith whatsoever that Pop will allow this rookie plenty of playing time to get the rookie mistakes out of his system.

I have plenty of faith that all the Pop apologists will be here at the end of next season making excuses for Pop and parroting the old, " It takes two years for new players to really excel in Pop's system...blah...blah..."

Again Pop played Tony Parker. He played Gary Neal. He played DeJuan Blair. He played George Hill. He played James Anderson (before he got hurt). He was an asshole for not playing Splitter, but it's not like he Larry Browns every rookie in the program.

[Nathan89]

Nice write up. I would like to know, since I too have seen him play, what you though about his halfcourt game, and the Spurs offense?

[GSH]

The only reason I say that is that Kawhi was pretty limited offensively in college. His college scoring was due in large part to his genetics and his hustle.

Kawhi Leonard could be the best rebounding 3 in the league if given the minutes. And he’s definitely quick enough and long enough to guard any 3, and a lot of the 4s in the NBA.

I think we’ll see him guard most of the better 2s, 3s and some of the better scoring 4s, that this team faces.

At this point he doesn’t have the ability to create his own shot, but that may come with time.

Kawhi’s greatest asset is his work ethic. He’s going to inject a certain energy level onto the defense that I think will be contagious. What he’ll have to work on is his shooting, his ball-handling, and his lateral movement on defense. He’ll probably average 4 and 3 his first couple of months in the league, the doubters and George Hill lovers will be screaming about him being a wasted pick, but then you’ll see him start to click.

Gread write-up. Thanks. You touched on a lot of the things I've been wondering about:

Getting most of his points from genetics and hustle isn't all bad. The way the game is played and officiated now, a lot of players are getting points that way. It's one of the things the Spurs have been con uously short on. They really have to get more athletic to compete in the game that's being played these days. Chip Engellund will teach him to shoot - better. Nobody can teach our current earthbound crew to be athletic.

You really think he'll be quick enough to guard NBA 2's and 3's? I read a couple of scouting reports that didn't speak glowingly about his lateral movement, and then there were those combine stats. But you said the stats were a fluke. If he can stay in front of quality 3's that would be incredible for this team. If he can really cover quick 2's and finesse 4's, it would be a real bonus. I'm glad to hear you say that you think he can. It would be nice for teams not to be able to create instant mis-matches when we switch.

Jefferson can't create his own shot either. No change there, but no loss from what we currently have.

Work ethic is huge. Energy on defense is huge. Posting 4 and 3 wouldn't bother me too much either. Jefferson gave us about 6 and 4 in the playoffs, and was a matador on defense. If Leonard can really play D, we'll be ahead of the game getting 4 and 3 from him. (BTW - I'm glad you didn't predict more boards for him. They're going to be harder to come by, especially if he's defending the perimeter.) If he starts out getting 4 and 3, it will mean he gets it, and he's focused on defense first. Then the numbers can improve.

[Budkin]

Mexican is his favorite type of food... he'll love SA.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Gread write-up. Thanks. You touched on a lot of the things I've been wondering about:

Getting most of his points from genetics and hustle isn't all bad. The way the game is played and officiated now, a lot of players are getting points that way. It's one of the things the Spurs have been con uously short on. They really have to get more athletic to compete in the game that's being played these days. Chip Engellund will teach him to shoot - better. Nobody can teach our current earthbound crew to be athletic.

You really think he'll be quick enough to guard NBA 2's and 3's? I read a couple of scouting reports that didn't speak glowingly about his lateral movement, and then there were those combine stats. But you said the stats were a fluke. If he can stay in front of quality 3's that would be incredible for this team. If he can really cover quick 2's and finesse 4's, it would be a real bonus. I'm glad to hear you say that you think he can. It would be nice for teams not to be able to create instant mis-matches when we switch.

Jefferson can't create his own shot either. No change there, but no loss from what we currently have.

Work ethic is huge. Energy on defense is huge. Posting 4 and 3 wouldn't bother me too much either. Jefferson gave us about 6 and 4 in the playoffs, and was a matador on defense. If Leonard can really play D, we'll be ahead of the game getting 4 and 3 from him. (BTW - I'm glad you didn't predict more boards for him. They're going to be harder to come by, especially if he's defending the perimeter.) If he starts out getting 4 and 3, it will mean he gets it, and he's focused on defense first. Then the numbers can improve.

Thanks GSH. I do think he's quicker than he's being given credit for. I wonder if these guys that are extremely long-limbed have a hard time with some of the agility tests, because as a fan just watching the games I've always viewed him as very quick. That said, he probably won't be fast enough to guard too many point guards, I don't think, unless their name is Andre Miller or Jason Kidd. But I do think with his length he stands a good chance to stay in front of a lot of the league's shooting guards. If the Spurs are smart they'll mold him into a three/four and not a two/three because I think that's where he'll be able to best shine as he develops his game. I do think he'll add bulk as he matures and be pretty good in that role.

I see him as a role player/defensive specialist. Especially his first year or two while he's still growing up. But he has the tools to evolve into a pretty good player. I wish he could spend a summer working with Bowen...probably would be more beneficial to his long-term success than working with a shooting coach.

[Solid D]

When players show results and energy, they get playing time. Rookie or not. The death knell to the rookie is injury in training camp. That's the foundation where Pop puts his emphasis and trust. It's where the player puts his imprint on Pop's mind.

A player playing through dings is good with Pop. If a player misses too much time early-on...it's like a boat anchor on his back the rest of the year.

[Fabbs]

When players show results and energy, they get playing time. Rookie or not.

[benefactor]

Good stuff Chopper.

[Solid D]

The death knell to the rookie is injury in training camp. That's the foundation where Pop puts his emphasis and trust. It's where the player puts his imprint on Pop's mind.

A player playing through dings is good with Pop. If a player misses too much time early-on...it's like a boat anchor on his back the rest of the year.

Injured Traing Camp Rookie = Ian Udrih-Splitter

[DPG21920]

Thanks for the write up. The only reason I'm not sold on everything is because RJ is still on the roster. If they can move RJ, I have high expectations of the kid. Not that I expect some 19 year old to come in and turn a fringe contender into a legit one; that would be unreasonable.

I have high expectations because of what the Spurs did and how they don't miss when they do things like this. Many things happen along the way sometimes that dictate how a player performs, but the Spurs are banking on him somewhat from a talent perspective.

If you move RJ, and replace him with a true defensive, rebounding 3, I have no doubt that while the overall talent may dip, the team will be more balanced and better off.

[jjktkk]

Anyone can answer this;

Does anyone think that Pop will actually allow him to play?

Yes.

Does anyone else think that Pop will be the biggest obstacle to this rookie's success?

Nope.

I have no faith whatsoever that Pop will allow this rookie plenty of playing time to get the rookie mistakes out of his system.

Tp, George Hill, DeJuan Blair, Gary Neal, and James Anderson, until his injury, think your a goofball.

I have plenty of faith that all the Pop apologists will be here at the end of next season making excuses for Pop and parroting the old, " It takes two years for new players to really excel in Pop's system...blah...blah..."

Who apologizes for silverblk mystix? Are not most rookies better after 2 years in any coach's system? That seems pretty common sense imo.

[Indazone]

This dude thinks he can play the 2. I don't think his handles are good enough.

[jjktkk]

This dude thinks he can play the 2. I don't think his handles are good enough.

Probably not, but I like his confidence.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs have finally found their long 3.

Hallelujah! And after 3 seasons (1 missed Batum opportunity and 2 years of screwing around trying to force fit RJ), it's about damn time too!

Very nice writeup, Wild Helicopter.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts.

[SenorSpur]

No doubt Butler suffered a pretty bad injury. He has the luxury of youth on his side and according to everything I've heard or read, from his surgery to his recovery and rehab have gone amazingly well. The Spurs' medical staff is really good as well. If we are to assume that he can return to be the player he was in college, then the Spurs have essentially two lottery level rookies going into the season.

Saying that Butler would've been a lottery pick prior to his injury is a stretch. I will admit I don't know a lot about him, but the thing that scares me most about him, besides coming off such a serious injury, is his apparent lack of athleticism. I hope he fully recovers and finds a spot somewhere.

However, other than the arrival of Leonard and the return of Anderson, quite frankly, I'm next most excited about seeing the progress of Danny Green.

Whatever way this goes, the SF position on the Spurs' roster finally appears to be a position of strength, instead of a position of weakness.

[tp2021]

Whatever way this goes, the SF position on the Spurs' roster finally appears to be a position of strength, instead of a position of weakness.

Mayyybe...I'd say that as far as the SF position goes, to use a baseball analogy, we have a great stable of pitchers but no Ace. I myself am in agreement that I'm most excited about Anderson's return. IIRC dude almost averaged a block a game! I may be counting my chickens, but I have visions of Kawhi and Anderson holding down the perimeter together and it makes me feel alright about the team going forward.