Kawhi Leonard - thoughts from someone who's actually seen him play

[Brazil]

we really need a troll detector ! why bothering answering to a pancakechef troll ?

[ChumpDumper]

Doesnt take a genius to figure out that trying to compare players that you have to take into account SYSTEM.

Moving goal posts? Im only trying to keep up with the circular argument from your peers.

Take into consideration Tony, who shares PG time with Manu, and has a TON of mishandling TOs. Then you take a guy like Nash who has the ball in his HANDS CONSTANTLY with minimal TOs from poor handling skills. Now obviously Nash is a better dribbler/ball handler in general. If you took nash and threw him into our system his TOs would decrease. Throw parker into the suns mix and you would really see some ugly basketball.

The idea that all of our players are great and our system is perfect is INSANE. You guys dont know anything about playing the game and its obvious you have minimal experience because you cant understand how to visualize players in different situations and systems. I would be willing to bet 1 million dollars that a majority of you never saw manu play overseas and thought POP struck gold by taking a "chance" on him.

This isnt changing goal posts, its trying to explain to the fools on this board in simplest terms how basketball is observed and played.

Like the D bag talking about clogged lanes, well the lanes are always clogged when you run a pick and roll. Parker is good at that its no different on trying to get someone to turn their body or beat them at an angle in transition.

As I said, stats only mean something when you say they do. You will make excuses if the stats look bad for a player you like and downplay them when it makes a player you don't like look good.

Convenient.

How nice for you.

[xellos88330]

Interesting stat that he HAD 80+ bad pass TOs and 80+ HANDLING TOS

haahahahahahah

Laughs on you buddy

Chris paul had 100+ bad pass turnovers, and 50+ handling turnovers. Rougly translating to around 20 fewer turnovers than Parker during the ENTIRE 82 game season.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10NOH1.HTM

So by your logic, Chris Paul is a terrible PG who can't pass and turns the ball over in transition. After all, he is not as good as Parker is at scoring around the basket, and cannot find his teammates cutting to the basket.

Now... disappear.

[xellos88330]

we really need a troll detector ! why bothering answering to a pancakechef troll ?

I think that I am the one trolling him now TBH.

[Vic Petro]

If you are in SoCal, Kawhi Leonard is doing a radio interview at 3:15pm Pacific on 1090am

xxsportsradio.com

[pancakechef]

As I said, stats only mean something when you say they do. You will make excuses if the stats look bad for a player you like and downplay them when it makes a player you don't like look good.

Convenient.

How nice for you.

Then prove me wrong Richard Jefferson. When he was in a SYSTEM opposite of ours he flourished, when he was IN OUR sytem he sucks why??? WOW

Take the steve nash example (who handles the ball more than tony and aggressively advances the ball AND has less handling issues and more APG) how many LESS TOs would he have on our team. How many MORE assists would he have on our team.

Its funny that you "think" you have great knowledge but tiptoe around every point that is made.

Great assessment though.

[pancakechef]

Chris paul had 100+ bad pass turnovers, and 50+ handling turnovers (less than Parker). Rougly translating to around 20 fewer turnovers than Parker during the ENTIRE 82 game season.

http://www.82games.com/1011/10NOH1.HTM

So by your logic, Chris Paul is a terrible PG who can't pass and turns the ball over in transition. After all, he is not as good as Parker is at scoring around the basket, and cannot find his teammates cutting to the basket.

Now... disappear.

Ironically enough you thought you proved a point. You did, mine... Idiot

So your point was Chris Paul handles the ball more than parker and turns it over less than parker in a higher paced system than ours?

odd.

And wasnt your original point that Parker DIDNT have many handling issues.

[xellos88330]

Ironically enough you thought you proved a point. You did, mine... Idiot

So your point was Chris Paul handles the ball more than parker and turns it over less than parker in a higher paced system than ours?

odd.

And wasnt your original point that Parker DIDNT have many handling issues.

My point was his aggressiveness towards the basket. Not his turnovers. You were the one talking about the turnovers and mishandles. I was talking about his ability to score in transition. A turnover is a turnover is a turnover. No matter if it is bounced off your leg or not, it is still a turnover. Chris Paul has about the same amount as Parker. So therefore, Chris Paul is a terrible point guard and can't do anything in transition. It is pretty ty since he is the best player on that team. Chris Paul has no business being the number one option on the Hornets because the ball is in his hands all the time and all he does is turn the ball over.

Great ing assessment.

Next.

[pancakechef]

My point was his aggressiveness towards the basket. Not his turnovers. You were the one talking about the turnovers and mishandles AGRESSIVENESS TOWARDS THE BASKET DOESNT = GREAT TRANSITION PLAYER.

I was talking about his ability to score in transition (which I said in the first post he was good at but it doesnt make him a great transition player).

A turnover is a turnover is a turnover (NOT TRUE). No matter if it is bounced off your leg or not, it is still a turnover.

Chris Paul has about HILARIOUS the same amount as Parker. So therefore, Chris Paul is a terrible point guard and can't do anything in transition. It is pretty ty since he is the best player on that team. Chris Paul has no business being the number one option on the Hornets because the ball is in his hands all the time and all he does is turn the ball over.

Great ing assessment.

Next.

Again, if you had reading comprehension skills you would have a better life and a better job. I cant even try to debate you because nothing you say relates to anything. You just mindlessly type.

This was your own stupid comment:
If you have no shooters to force a defender to make a decision while running a break, where is the best opportunity to score

This is where GOOD transition players, ESPECIALLY PGS, come into play. THEY ATTACK THE DEFENDER TO MAKE HIM "commit, help, or hedge" BY ATTACKING. BY ATTACKING THEM. BY ATTACKING THEM.

As the man with the ball dictates the most defensive pressure
STOP BALL STOP BALL STOP BALL STOP BALL
If good enough to think AHEAD OF THE PLAY (Nash, WIlliams, Paul, Rondo, etc) will make man commit and open up this defenders man for an open shot OR AN OPEN LANE to cut to basket.

Again, I know its hard to grasp. And unfortunately you have never been a pg, watched a good pg, played with a good pg, or even played the game period if you cannot understand this concept.

[ivanfromwestwood]

hey assholes. why dont you guys get a room. this is a Kawhi Leonard thread. find a Parker thread and post this .

[pancakechef]

We can switch this right back to topic:

Doesnt matter that we drafted him at 7
1. Pop wont play him
2. He would surely have to be PERFECT on D to break even considering we will be playing 4 v 5 on offense cause he cant create and has no pg to get him good looks
3. LOCKOUT

[Bill_Brasky]

4. Pancakechef licks balls.

[pancakechef]

Theres only one man in my life: Pillsbury

[xellos88330]

Again, if you had reading comprehension skills you would have a better life and a better job. I cant even try to debate you because nothing you say relates to anything. You just mindlessly type.

This was your own stupid comment:
If you have no shooters to force a defender to make a decision while running a break, where is the best opportunity to score

This is where GOOD transition players, ESPECIALLY PGS, come into play. THEY ATTACK THE DEFENDER TO MAKE HIM "commit, help, or hedge" BY ATTACKING. BY ATTACKING THEM. BY ATTACKING THEM.

As the man with the ball dictates the most defensive pressure
STOP BALL STOP BALL STOP BALL STOP BALL
If good enough to think AHEAD OF THE PLAY (Nash, WIlliams, Paul, Rondo, etc) will make man commit and open up this defenders man for an open shot OR AN OPEN LANE to cut to basket.

Again, I know its hard to grasp. And unfortunately you have never been a pg, watched a good pg, played with a good pg, or even played the game period if you cannot understand this concept.

So Parker never attacks the basket?

So you played basketball? You must have been a ty player. You have no idea what a PG is supposed to do. You seem to completely disregard talent and make the game one of robotic precision. You cannot grasp the human element at all. You are so concerned with one player and forgetting that there are 9 more players on the court. Way to go Mr. PG. You failed. You also seem to think that if you penetrate automatically the defender is going to come out at you, you forget the trailers and pretty much everyone else on the court.

Here is an example. Let us say that you are a talented basketball PG. Highly unlikely because your complete denseness is mind-boggling. But for s and giggles, you are. You are running in transition on a 2 on 2 break. You are really good at completing 3 point plays in the paint and are basically known for having that ability. You also seem to draw fouls consistently when you attack the basket and are a decent free throw shooter. The other teammate you are with is earning their brick laying degree. The first defender commits and the second defender cuts off the cutter by venturing into the passing lane. What do you do?

[ChumpDumper]

So Parker never attacks the basket?

This.

[monkeypunk]

hey assholes. Why dont you guys get a room. This is a kawhi leonard thread. Find a parker thread and post this .

+100000000

[pancakechef]

[QUOTE=xellos88330;5333582]So Parker never attacks the basket?

So you played basketball? You must have been a ty player. You have no idea what a PG is supposed to do. You seem to completely disregard talent and make the game one of robotic precision. You cannot grasp the human element at all. You are so concerned with one player and forgetting that there are 9 more players on the court. Way to go Mr. PG. You failed. You also seem to think that if you penetrate automatically the defender is going to come out at you, you forget the trailers and pretty much everyone else on the court.

Here is an example. Let us say that you are a talented basketball PG. Highly unlikely because your complete denseness is mind-boggling. But for s and giggles, you are. You are running in transition on a 2 on 2 break. You are really good at completing 3 point plays in the paint and are basically known for having that ability. You also seem to draw fouls consistently when you attack the basket and are a decent free throw shooter. The other teammate you are with is earning their brick laying degree. The first defender commits and the second defender cuts off the cutter by venturing into the passing lane. What do you do?[/QUOTE]

PLEASE READ MY FIRST POST. I said that he was good at one thing. FINISHING. Which doesnt make him GREAT or EVEN GOOD IN TRANSITION.

Then I claimed that he had more dribbling TOs than passing. He doesnt but its EXTREMELY CLOSE and more than most PGs in the league. SOMETHING YOU SCOFFED AT.

Wrong Again dip . I claimed that GOOD PGs CAN MANIPULATE ANY DEFENDER INTO stopping them. That son, is a fact.

Drawing fouls is your only good point in this argument. Yes that is important. But Parker has the awesome feature of getting tick tacked lately, missing, and NOT DRAWING THE FOUL. Which I stated in a previous post. AGAIN, you have to be aware of what you are doing as the PG. If I needed to get my shooters going, I WOULDNT LOOK JUST TO SCORE OR GET FOULED. I WOULD LOOK TO GET THEM EASY BASKETS.

YOU DO what any PG would do. What any good QB WOULD DO. What steve nash or any pg with vision would do: you throw it where the cutter WILL be. Again this goes right back to my previous post when I said that tony cant "think ahead"

The lane doesnt get "clogged" the defender either is on the top side or the bottom side of the play. You saying that is probably the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. ESPECIALLY when YA BOY runs the PNR all day long. SAME CONCEPT. How does he find Duncan rolling???? Well Duncan sees where the defender will be and makes himself available at the other side (top/bottom) and parker throws it where duncan will be away from defender.

We all know what parker does in transition. He takes it to the hole and sometimes he scores, some times he gets fouled, and other times he bricks, and es about the foul. All the while we are struggling as a team with scoring, as in the playoffs. Thats his skill. Which was an asset when we had the most dominant big in the league. Now we dont and we need Parker to be a TEAM player because hes successfully shown he cant score ENOUGH when it matters to make us win.

Irony strikes again. Parker's robotic precision of being unable to involve more players into a scoring role and taking it to the rack is really what kills the team

[xellos88330]

YOU DO what any PG would do. What any good QB WOULD DO. What steve nash or any pg with vision would do: you throw it where the cutter WILL be. Again this goes right back to my previous post when I said that tony cant "think ahead"

You fail miserably. The correct answer is to evaluate the damn defense. Great PG skills there mate. The point guard is meant to evaluate and guide the team to break down an oppositions defense to create easy opportunities for either your team, or yourself. You never once asked, "How big is the guy defending the paint? How big is the guy cutting off the passing lane? Are the defenders athletic? Am, I fast enough to get to the basket without being contested? Is my cutter able to recognize the passing lane is closed and to move into a different position? Will the defender follow? Are they shot blockers? Is my defender a shot blocker? What are his tendencies in defending a penetrating guard? What are the tendencies of the 2nd defender? Do I have enough time to reposition the defenders to get off a good pass before the other 3 defenders show up?

Once again, the human element. No defense is the same. A defender can make different choices throughout the course of a game from one play to the next. You are completely wrong and should watch a sport more akin to your brain power. Special Olympics maybe? I will cheer for you. Until then, RUN FORREST RUN!!!

Tony Parker really kills the team. I wish he were more like CP3. That whole .4 of a percent in win percentage is just unacceptable. He really needs to stop doing what he is doing because he loses a whole .4 of a percent that a team needs to win. Dumbass.




For all you other Spurstalkers, Kawhi Leonard will hopefully be what the Spurs have needed at the 3. Anyone know if he has any plans on working with someone outside the NBA on his jumper?

[pancakechef]

You fail miserably. The correct answer is to evaluate the damn defense. Great PG skills there mate. The point guard is meant to evaluate and guide the team to break down an oppositions defense to create easy opportunities for either your team, or yourself. You never once asked, "How big is the guy defending the paint? How big is the guy cutting off the passing lane? Are the defenders athletic? Am, I fast enough to get to the basket without being contested? Is my cutter able to recognize the passing lane is closed and to move into a different position? Will the defender follow? Are they shot blockers? Is my defender a shot blocker? What are his tendencies in defending a penetrating guard? What are the tendencies of the 2nd defender? Do I have enough time to reposition the defenders to get off a good pass before the other 3 defenders show up?

Once again, the human element. No defense is the same. A defender can make different choices throughout the course of a game from one play to the next. You are completely wrong and should watch a sport more akin to your brain power. Special Olympics maybe? I will cheer for you. Until then, RUN FORREST RUN!!!

Tony Parker really kills the team. I wish he were more like CP3. That whole .4 of a percent in win percentage is just unacceptable. He really needs to stop doing what he is doing because he loses a whole .4 of a percent that a team needs to win. Dumbass.




For all you other Spurstalkers, Kawhi Leonard will hopefully be what the Spurs have needed at the 3. Anyone know if he has any plans on working with someone outside the NBA on his jumper?

You are clueless of the basic concepts of passing or running the floor. It doesnt matter any of the stupid questions you asked. First of all, these guys are pros, if they cant cut, catch, and finish they should be shot. Second IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THE DEFENSE PLAYS YOU WHEN BUSTING A CUTTER or HELPING. They have to commit to one side, you throw it to where the cutter WILL BE.

Whatever "move" the defense makes is the WRONG one. So those arent my ty PG skills that cant get it done, its ya boy Parkers.

You're right man, NO keeps begging us to do the Parker for Paul swap and we keep turning them down. You do know what was offered for Parker right... Sacramento Junk....

Owned again.

[TJastal]

I thought the poodle stepped it up a notch as far as passing the ball this year, esp early on in the year. Still would like to see more, and ESPECIALLY on the fast break instead of always trying to force contact with the 1st defender he sees to get to the line.

It's always hit or miss when he does that, and he rarely ever makes the layup anymore if he's fouled (hardly ever gets the AND-1 anymore) and to top it off he's no Steve Nash at the free throw line either.

All in all, I'd have to side with pancakechef about TP's "transition" game needing improvement. Needs to see the floor better & realize the odds rest more with finding a cutter for a layup or dunk rather than him shooting 2 free throws or throwing up an ugly shot while yelling his standard "Hey!" then sitting on the floor pouting when there's no love from the officials.

[xellos88330]

You are clueless of the basic concepts of passing or running the floor. It doesnt matter any of the stupid questions you asked. First of all, these guys are pros, if they cant cut, catch, and finish they should be shot. Second IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THE DEFENSE PLAYS YOU WHEN BUSTING A CUTTER or HELPING. They have to commit to one side, you throw it to where the cutter WILL BE.

Whatever "move" the defense makes is the WRONG one. So those arent my ty PG skills that cant get it done, its ya boy Parkers.

You're right man, NO keeps begging us to do the Parker for Paul swap and we keep turning them down. You do know what was offered for Parker right... Sacramento Junk....

Owned again.

So you admit to having no point guard skills, no concept of what it is to be a point, and keep referring to a cutter which is stated in the scenario as being defended. Do you still forget about that guy? I am done with you. Like a good toy, it gets boring after you see all the things it can do.

Hope you enjoyed getting schooled son. I know I did.

[Thompson]

Don't know if this has been posted already, but it has a few more Leonard highlights. Not a whole lot there, but a few good steals and a nice block.

[Vic Petro]

"There's no question that Kawhi's legacy will live long after today with his leaving San Diego State," coach Steve Fisher told reporters. "It's already done that, the ripple effect when Kawhi's name is mentioned.

http://es.pn/jsgHUQ

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sorry, Matt Boner led the league in threes this year correct? And he has perfect technique?

Pick D
I own you

And Bonner's release is low and takes forever to get off. Notice how well he performed against athletic defenders that could close the gap quickly like Memphis? Gary Neal gets those shots off because of his technique.

There are otehr forms that will work as evidenced by guys like Shawn Marion and Bonner. that does not mean that traditional technique does not have a huge success rate.

[Vic Petro]

“He’s going to be a regular in the NBA; how soon I don’t know,” Fisher said. “Most of the guys I’ve talked with, the scouts that came in, they said, ‘We’re not as worried about his shot as you might think. If he’s a professional — if he’s as committed as you say he is — the shot will get better; that he will cultivate his shot.’

Nice article

http://bit.ly/jtmo67