Ron Paul’s Surprisingly Lucid Solution to the Debt Ceiling Impasse

[coyotes_geek]

Do you really expect a person making under $30K to pay income tax, as well as paying all payroll taxes, sales taxes, property taxes.

Yes.

When Warren Buffet and other hyper-wealthy pays 17%, what do you expect a $30K gross person to pay in income tax?

Not much, but more than $0. Everyone above the poverty line should owe at least $1 in income tax IMO.

As for Warren Buffett, I've said all along I'm fine with raising capital gains tax rates. In fact I think if we got rid of cap gains rates all together we could lower the marginal rates and still come out ahead on revenue.

[angrydude]

the main benefit of this isn't that we could borrow more, it is that we wouldn't have to pay interest on the debt we just destroyed.

[Wild Cobra]

I will say it again.

All income earners should pay a tax that is subject to increase or decrease to them. Not just others. It's about accountability. Accountability of who we vote for. Accountability so people vote for the best for everyone instead of being bough by political promises of doing things they want with other people;'s money.

[Blake]

I say the Democrats AND the Republicans.

[Drachen]

I think you overstate Bush's leadership. Let's be clear, Cheney had far more weight with congress and Repuiblicans than Bush ever could. Same with Rumsfield and everyone else. Bush was a relative newcomer and because of his cast he was able to do just about whatever he wanted. Republicans, for whatever reason, tend to vote the same way dpwm the lines more then Democrats. When you look at the parties, who would compare to a Cheney or Gingrich from the 90's? With a larger majority Reid and Pelosi couldn't pass a damn thing without tons of compromises.

To be fair, the way I saw it, Pelosi passed everything she damn well pleased.

I will say this though, I agree with CC and am not about to pick apart the process that led him to that which I agree with.

[coyotes_geek]

the main benefit of this isn't that we could borrow more, it is that we wouldn't have to pay interest on the debt we just destroyed.

Well, at least not until we replace the debt we destroyed with new debt........

[Drachen]

The treasury is not the Fed, nor vice versa.

(Slaps forehead) DOH!

[boutons_deux]

"Pelosi passed everything she damn well pleased."

she did pretty well only in the House, but the Senate Repugs and DINOs meant there was never a super majority in the Senate, so House stuff got modified seriously or killed.

[Winehole23]

Well, at least not until we replace the debt we destroyed with new debt........

The "borrowing room" boutons cheerily alluded to upstream. New stimulus funded by a straight up gimmick, courtesy of Ron Paul.

There's no way this actually flies, right?

[coyotes_geek]

The "borrowing room" boutons cheerily alluded to upstream. New stimulus funded by a straight up gimmick, courtesy of Ron Paul.

There's no way this actually flies, right?

I wouldn't say no way, but Paul's idea certainly doesn't seem to be picking up any steam. At least not in the media. So that leads me to think that it's not going to fly. For now.

[SnakeBoy]

To be fair, I think Obama would go for an across the board raising of taxes. Probably not an even one, but none the less. I'm not saying the democrats are without fault, but in the areas of fiscal responsibility the GOP is far far worse, IMO. Their stance of no tax increases is a complete non starter.

Really? All he had to do was nothing and we would be using the Clinton tax rates now. The Bush tax cuts became the Obama tax cuts when he renewed them. Can't blame the GOP for that...but you'll find a way I'm sure.

[RandomGuy]

You seem to suggest that they do not help bear the burden.

That's because they're not.

So when someone pays rent, could the landlord offer that property at a lower rate if the landlord didn't have to pay income taxes?

[coyotes_geek]

So when someone pays rent, could the landlord offer that property at a lower rate if the landlord didn't have to pay income taxes?

Sure. Not a very relevant point though since whatever transitive tax burden you're claiming the non-income tax payers are "burdened" with is equally felt by the income tax payers on top of the income taxes that they're paying.

Of course one could also play this game on the other end of the income spectrum and say that the rich shouldn't have to pay any income taxes either because of the taxes paid by whoever they're doing business with.

[Th'Pusher]

Really? All he had to do was nothing and we would be using the Clinton tax rates now. The Bush tax cuts became the Obama tax cuts when he renewed them. Can't blame the GOP for that...but you'll find a way I'm sure.

That would not have been the proper timing, but eventually I all of the bush tax cuts should expire. The key is to phase the cuts/tax increases in over time as to limit drag on on GDP growth. My primary issue with the December Tax agreement is the priorities. First things first…give everyone their tax cuts, the millionaires included, and now we can really get down to business and start cutting subsidies for the poor…and NPR.

[Winehole23]

We have a winner. Congrats. Me and you be the only ones on this board who get it.

You may not have been listening carefully. What CC proposed isn't very different from what a number of regular posters regularly say, and he was hardly the first to say it here. That honor goes to coyotes_geek by my casual reckoning...

[Winehole23]

...your desire to be in a very small club with CosmicCowboy, totally notwithstanding

[Winehole23]

Sorry. I'm not a fan.

[Winehole23]

Missing something you said doesn't make me ADHD.

[Parker2112]

lol at all the silly mother s that still think the Fed is any part of the US/US Govt.

Or that our govt has any control over the FED,

Or that the treasury has a damn thing to do with the FED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcvuBETuwn0

[Winehole23]

Were you talking to somebody?

[Agloco]

Our monetary system is re ed.

Yeah, in a roundabout way, this is what I was getting at.

[Winehole23]

Let's see how played out:

The Fed Reserve went to the banks holding all of those toxic mortgage back bonds and says "Let"s make a deal!" The Fed offered to buy those bonds with money the Fed invented with a few cyber key strokes. Sweet deal for the banks: unload those worthless toxic mortage bonds for some cold hard cash, albeit invented money!

But there was one little catch. The banks had to agree to use that invented money received from the Federal Reserve and buy new U.S. Govt bonds from the US Treasury. Not a bad deal for the banks: they sell the toxic mortgage bonds and replace them with interest paying bonds. Sweet!

Then the Fed Reserves comes out with QE2 and and invents another $600 billion dollars. The Fed then goes back to the banks and says, "Hey banks.....We want to make you another deal and buy back those US Treasury bonds you got from selling us those nasty toxic mortgage bonds!" The banks couldn't refuse that offer!

So the banks sold those toxic bonds to the Fed, used the money to buy Treasuries and then sold those Treasuries back to the Fed for cash. In short order the banks turned those toxic mortgage bonds into cold hard cash they were suppose to loan out to business. Except that never happened and it got funneled back into the stock market.
The rich bankers taking care of the rich.

So by the Fed junking the $1.6 Trillion in bonds they hold, a big chuck of that came from inventing money to buy the bonds.

Can you say monetize? As in monetize the debt?

Nice rundown. TGIF.

[Wild Cobra]

What do you all think about just printing more money to cover the expenditures rather than increasing the ceiling?

[Winehole23]

hUH?

[Winehole23]

nO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY IT'S A BAD IDEA