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It doesn't help to have horses up front when Pop refuses to put them in the game. And you're saying Splitter getting all of Bonner's minutes last year wouldn't have made a difference?
i don't care
It doesn't help to have horses up front when Pop refuses to put them in the game. And you're saying Splitter getting all of Bonner's minutes last year wouldn't have made a difference?
You are dreaming if you think Tiago gets us a championship last year. And if you think Tiago gives us one this year (if we actually have games) you are hallucinating.
I would love to be dead wrong.
i had a dream that jefferson was off the team. i was so happy. now reality hits that he will probably start again next season.
Splitter's defense in the paint would have helped slow down Gasol & Randolph, and also helped Tim Duncan not to wear down so quick like he did. So he could have actually contributed some offense. From there, many things might have fallen into place. There are no guarantees and I don't recall ever saying it was a guaranteed championship. But I think the spurs would have gotten furthur into the playoffs, possibly into the 2nd round or WCF.
Great dream...
You actually may be right - the ONE thing that is highly probable is that had Splitter played, that experience would've carried over into this year and the team would be the better for it.
Aside from that, however, the Spurs are not built to win a championship this upcoming year, the year after that and probably the year after that. They need, quite simply, a BETTER frontcourt than Splitter, Blair, Richards, Lorbek, Bertans or whomever they can draft from picking somewhere in the late teens to early 20s. They either need to miss the playoffs and get VERY lucky in the lottery to draft in the top 5 (like the year they got TD) or trade some fairly valuable pieces for a stud front court type of player.
Make no mistake - there are some that are available (Josh Smith probably, etc.) that aren't being highly publicized. It's just a matter of pulling the trigger.
Duncan is the second best C in the league. Amongst C's, only Howard had a better PER. The only other C that's close to Duncan is Bynum. But he has to show he can consistently play at the level he did during the second half of last season before I'd consider giving him the nod.
Ginobili is the third best SG in the league. Amongst SG's, only Wade and Bryant had a better PER. The only other SG that was even close was Martin. But, for as efficient a scorer as he is, he's a one dimensional player.
Parker is arguably a top five PG, but definitely no worse than top seven. Amongst PG's, he finished sixth in PER (ahead of Rondo, though he supposedly played much of the season with an assortment of nagging injuries).
Overall, they ranked 14th, 17th and 27th. Only the Lakers had a trio that ranked higher and the Heat were the only other team even close. I'm not saying Pop didn't have a flawed roster to work with (don't forget though, he had a big hand in the composition of the roster), but don't act like he didn't have high end talent to work with. For the first time in his career, he didn't have a top ten player, but he still had two top twenty and three top thirty players.
I wonder how many championships have been won with two top twenty and three top thirty players.
I still greatly appreciate Pop, even though he does some things year after year that are aggravating. But you need at least one hall of fame player in their prime to win a championship, and the Spurs have passed that moment in time a while ago. So I can make peace with that, but I still get annoyed when Pop undervelops a talented young player every year, only to then get desperate and throw them into a playoff game when we're about to get eleminated.
Splitter obviously should have played more, much more, during the regular season. And for not doing that Pop looks kind of stupid. But that doesn't make him a horrible coach.
Excellent analysis.
But TD's PER (21.9 according to basketball-reference) was the lowest its been ever - even lower than his rookie year. So was his offreb%, defreb% and just about every other per 36 minute stat available. The telltale one is his offensive win shares (down to 3.7).
When you get a little more in-depth, TD was outplayed by Chandler, M Gasol, Nene, Howard and Bynum was close (keep in mind that TD was moved to PF and Blair moved to C at times).
Did the mavs have HOF'r in his prime?
Nowitzki is 33 years old and heading into his 14th season. Marion is also 33 heading into his 12th season. Jason Kidd is older than anyone on either team at 38 and heading into his 20th season. Terry is 33 as well I think.
So who was this masked avenger in his prime, who helped the mavs through one of the toughest roads to the finals ever?
Nowitzki is in his prime. Youre rather stupid for thinking otherwise.
He's the same age as Manu Ginobili. And played almost 300+ more nba games. You're serious?
Dirk's on the tail-end of his prime but yea he's still in it like Karl Malone and Hakeem were in their 30's. Dirk was a MVP candidate that outperformed stars on both sides of 30 throughout the reg season and playoffs.
Blake's right - you're rather stupid for thinking otherwise.
I wouldn't say Dirk is in his physical prime (18-30 years old) but I think it's his skilled game that allows him to slow down the game more that any other player(Dirk is slow as on his drives and everything, It's his deadly shooting skill that opens up the rest of his slow ass game). The reason the Mavs won the championship is because Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, and Marion all stepped up big in the playoffs. And meanwhile on the Spurs, nobody stepped up except a broken down Manu.
Both are correct.
Dirk is still in his prime, and mavs don't win without Chandler + Barea.
The reason Dallas was able to win a championship was because the mavs were smart enough to realize Dirk needed to be paired with an athletic young defensive center in his prime (28-29 years old) exactly BECAUSE DIRK IS NOWHERE NEAR HIS. And the result of this was Dirk was able to focus even more of his energy on shooting and closing out games.
Yet almost all of Dirk's #'s were actually better last year. And his rebounding numbers have been in steady decline since 2002, where he topped out at 10.0. Sure he's still putting up solid scoring numbers but that doesn't mean he's in his prime by any stretch.
LMAO at tweedle dee and tweedle dum thinking he is in his prime.
Kobe turns 33 in August. Will he still be in his prime, too?
Yup. Dirk's in the tail end of his prime and his game will age with the best the league has seen probably. Mavs had the players and a more active management ($$$$) to field a contender even after losing Butler.
LMAO so now he's at the very "tail end of his prime", lemme guess that tail is 10 feet long too?
The mavs werent' winnin' without Chandler's athletic shotblocking & rebounding to support Dirk's fading athleticism and deteriorating rebounding ability.
Put today's PRIME Chandler on that '06 mavs squad (when I think Dirk was ACTUALLY at the tail end of his prime) and the mavs would have stomped out the heat back then, too.
As far as the $$$$ situation, the spurs have had plenty of chances to find the right fit to help Tim Duncan and for some reason or another have dropped the ball repeatedly. And it hasn't been due to lack of funding. They let Nazr Mohammed walk and Scola slip through their fingers. Either one of those guys (or preferably both) could have easily helped the spurs win more les since 2007. As was mentioned before, Duncan's PER was still 2nd best for centers in the league last year. And Manu was poised for a brilliant playoff run until he hurt his elbow in the final game of the season.
It gets really annoying hearing the same excuses day after day after day.
Lmfao at maybe the only dumb ass in the world that thinks dirk is nowhere near his prime.The reason Dallas was able to win a championship was because the mavs were smart enough to realize Dirk needed to be paired with an athletic young defensive center in his prime (28-29 years old) exactly BECAUSE DIRK IS NOWHERE NEAR HIS. And the result of this was Dirk was able to focus even more of his energy on shooting and closing out games.
Yet almost all of Dirk's #'s were actually better last year. And his rebounding numbers have been in steady decline since 2002, where he topped out at 10.0. Sure he's still putting up solid scoring numbers but that doesn't mean he's in his prime by any stretch.
LMAO at tweedle dee and tweedle dum thinking he is in his prime.
No, I wrote that in the post earlier as well but its understandable that you missed that considering you're mostly stupid. Dirk's been a MVP candidate thats outplayed stars younger than 30 and is their most important piece.LMAO so now he's at the very "tail end of his prime", lemme guess that tail is 10 feet long too?
Yup Chandler was pretty important but they weren't winning without a player like Dirk providing the offense either.The mavs werent' winnin' without Chandler's athletic shotblocking & rebounding to support Dirk's fading athleticism and deteriorating rebounding ability.
They should've stomped them back in '06 even without Chandler tbhPut today's PRIME Chandler on that '06 mavs squad (when I think Dirk was ACTUALLY at the tail end of his prime) and the mavs would have stomped out the heat back then, too.
Duncan had a 15.5 PER at about 35 MPG in the playoffs which is not the 2nd best for centers and he averaged less than 30 mins game in the reg season. Duncan's PER in the playoffs was even worse than Tony's.
As far as the $$$$ situation, the spurs have had plenty of chances to find the right fit to help Tim Duncan and for some reason or another have dropped the ball repeatedly. And it hasn't been due to lack of funding. They let Nazr Mohammed walk and Scola slip through their fingers. Either one of those guys (or preferably both) could have easily helped the spurs win more les since 2007. As was mentioned before, Duncan's PER was still 2nd best for centers in the league last year. And Manu was poised for a brilliant playoff run until he hurt his elbow in the final game of the season.
It gets really annoying hearing the same excuses day after day after day.
Having an owner thats willing to spend as much as Mark Cuban is a significant advantage especially for a competent FO. Spurs never had that much flexibility which would help in getting serious upgrades other than waiting for internationals to come over.
Mavs have Haywood coming off the bench. Spurs have Splitter and the turd towers. That says it all.
Last edited by Cane; 07-12-2011 at 02:27 PM.
I think you got it backwards, you and your boyfriend Cane are the only ones who probably think Dirk is still in his prime as a basketball player.
One look at the statistics confirms this.
Statistically his most productive two seasons were 2004 & 2005, where he posted his two highest scoring averages. Since then his steals, rebounds, & blocks have all seen steady declines. Actually he posted his best rebounding rate in 2002 @ 10 a game. That was a decade ago, dumb .
Which tells me that right around 2004-2005 was probably close to his prime, and give or take a few years after that for the "tail end".
The mavs found a great fit in Chandler & Haywood and proved you can win with an older caste of players past their primes. Dirk had a great season shooting the ball, and let Chandler & Haywood do all the dirty work inside. But none of that equates to Dirk being "in his prime".
Just because some on spurstalk makes an erroneous assumption doesn't mean it's true. You can win without a "HOF'r in his prime", and even if you don't believe that Dirk is way past his prime I bet I can find several championship teams from the past that fit this criteria.
One quick look at statistics shows that Dirk is by far the best PF in the NBA and he averaged a higher playoffs PER than his career average.
No one's arguing that he's in his peak but he's in the tail-end of his prime like Hakeem and Malone were. His mileage, game, height, etc. is responsible for his prolonged prime. Dirks a MVP candidate that outplayed the league's best stars on both sides of 30 not too long ago.
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