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  1. #101
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Obviously there are more factors involved...

    My point was more along the lines of suggesting that if the currents along North America's western coast were warmer that the areas not currently seeing much rainfall would probably see some....

    By proxy those in the Pacific Northwest you pointed out would likely see much more...
    The predominant factor is not the temperature of the water at all but rather the atmospheric circulation and regions of low pressure associated with the large scale patterns.

    Lift is far more important than warm water in producing precipitation. This is why orographic features can be the biggest promoters of rain - its a way of "creating" lift without relying on atmospheric lift. The rainiest place on earth is due to the lift provided by the Himalayas.

    You would likely see an increase in precipitation if the Pacific off the coast of the PACNW was warmer but its just not even close to as big a player as the circulation patterns I mentioned.

  2. #102
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    I like the idea of flooding a desert.

    But not to make a wildlife refuge, or to 'change the climate'.

    At the base of the Dead Sea Valley is the dead sea itself. It is one of the richest mining areas for rare elements that had been dissolved in fresh water recovered in the form of salts and sediment, on Earth.

    The basin acts as a massive solar powered evaporator. However, because of the fresh water demands placed on the inflowing rivers into the Dead Sea, the Dead Sea is shrinking at an alarming rate...

    What I propose is not to flood the area with fresh water. That is an irresponsible waste of a preciously scarce resource. (The evaporation rate is too high, the water would become brackish if not downright salty on it's own, and that vapor is not guaranteed to precipitate anywhere near the surrounding area.)

    However, if you flooded the basin with SEA WATER from either the Red Sea or the Mediterranean (an already super salty ocean whose evaporation exceeds the inflow of 'fresh' seawater from the Atlantic at the Straights of Gibraltar, you can use the natural evaporation of the basin/sun to continue mining the sea at a nice rate...

    So to with Death Valley. Flood it with sea water from the Sea of Cortez. Make another 'Salton Sea'. Turn it into a massive mining center.

    There is no guarantee that any water vapor will precipitate anywhere within in North America, let alone Texas. But you will have a great mining reserve.

    However, the difference may be with the underlying aquifer becoming contaminated (Ogallala perhaps?) and the native flora and fauna going extinct... There is less of a risk of this happening in the Dead Sea, as there are only a few types of microbes living there right now.

  3. #103
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken both of those deserts are located on the leeward side of cold ocean currents that have less evaporative potential than what a warmer current would produce (deductively obvious).

    Not that I condone the OP's geoengineering proposal (kind of left-field)... just figured I would point that out...

    You are correct. I'm not sure why Manny is arguing with you about this.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow

  4. #104
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    The predominant factor is not the temperature of the water at all but rather the atmospheric circulation and regions of low pressure associated with the large scale patterns.

    Lift is far more important than warm water in producing precipitation. This is why orographic features can be the biggest promoters of rain - its a way of "creating" lift without relying on atmospheric lift. The rainiest place on earth is due to the lift provided by the Himalayas.

    You would likely see an increase in precipitation if the Pacific off the coast of the PACNW was warmer but its just not even close to as big a player as the circulation patterns I mentioned.
    (or the Rockies in Seattle, for that matter...)

  5. #105
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    "Baja California is a desert considering its on the Pacific"

    yes, it is amazing, but not unique.

    another one: the Namibian desert in s/w Africa, desert sand right to the water line.
    Dryest place on Earth is Chile's Atacama Desert, located right on the Pacific Coast... There has never been rainfall recorded there...

  6. #106
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Dryest place on Earth is Chile's Atacama Desert, located right on the Pacific Coast... There has never been rainfall recorded there...
    Another leeward desert.

  7. #107
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    You are correct. I'm not sure why Manny is arguing with you about this.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_shadow
    Not arguing, discussing.

    However, he didn't even mention a rain shadow.



    He was talking about potential precipitate water due to the water temperature of the nearby ocean.

  8. #108
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Not arguing, discussing.

    However, he didn't even mention a rain shadow.



    He was talking about potential precipitate water due to the water temperature of the nearby ocean.
    What do you think he was talking about when he said "leeward side"?


    By the way, the Atacama desert recently received a massive snowfall.


  9. #109
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    In fairness, the 'whole' Atacama isn't the driest place on Earth, just 'parts' of it... There was rain in the 1970's too if I am not mistaken...

  10. #110
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Cool factoid.

  11. #111
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Another leeward desert.
    Yes, thats a complete rain shadow due to the Andes. However, thats not at all the reason for Baja being dry nor is it the reason for the Namib being dry nor is it the reason Phenomanal brought up. You read "leeward" and your brain stopped working.

    Rain shadows happen on the leeward side of mountain ranges. He said OCEAN CURRENTS.

  12. #112
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    What do you think he was talking about when he said "leeward side"?

    Do you know what leeward means? It means downwind. He was talking about being downwind for a cold ocean current. Its right there in plain English, Darrin.

    Leeward does not mean rain shadow.

    Good lord who's next with their dose of stupid for this thread?

  13. #113
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    No thoughts on the resource reclamation potential of a rapidly evaporating body of water?

  14. #114
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken both of those deserts are located on the leeward side of cold ocean currents that have less evaporative potential than what a warmer current would produce (deductively obvious).

    Not that I condone the OP's geoengineering proposal (kind of left-field)... just figured I would point that out...
    Darrin, next time read it before you quote it.

  15. #115
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    No thoughts on the resource reclamation potential of a rapidly evaporating body of water?
    I don't know about what the minerals are that are extracted from such types of dry lake beds but I am 99% sure that its not worth what it would cost to undertake such a process. Thats completely aside from the fact that Death Valley is a national park and not able to be developed in such a way.

    The SW US has major issues regarding moving water for human consumption at this time and its going to get far worse in the future. Resources will go into solving that so I can promise you no one is going to make an efford to make a giant salt lake before first finding a way to move more fresh water into the region.

  16. #116
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Darrin, next time read it before you quote it.
    You're right. I didn't read it carefully.

  17. #117
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    What if we let this thread die the undignified death it deserves?

  18. #118
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Or we can flood it with water...

  19. #119
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    I think it is an interesting mental exercise. However, It probably should be in a different forum, other than political...

  20. #120
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Or we can flood it with water...
    This thread : Intellectual thought as death valley : rain

  21. #121
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I think it is an interesting mental exercise. However, It probably should be in a different forum, other than political...
    The political forum is a jack of all trades.

  22. #122
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    Another leeward desert.
    Is Antarctica also a leeward desert?

  23. #123
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    What if we flooded the entire Politics Forum with intelligent posts and well thought-out thread topics?

    Would boutons, Wild Cobra, DarrinS, et. al cease to exist?

  24. #124
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Is Antarctica also a leeward desert?
    LOL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB

    Antartica is cold, how could it be a desert?




















































  25. #125
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    What if we flooded the entire Politics Forum with intelligent posts and well thought-out thread topics?
    For better and for worse, it has never been tried.

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