First pics of The Dark Knight Rises set (2 day shoot in India with Bale and Pence)

[DPG21920]

Exactly.

[redzero]

The movie can still be great, but it will be in spite of Catwoman. There is literally nothing good that can come from Catwoman so let's hope it doesn't drag the movie down at all.

[BlackSwordsMan]

If you don't like this movie because of Catwoman, you are mentally weak.

agreed so what if her costume looks like ?
get over it lefty

[DPG21920]

redzero having fantasies about catwoman. Lol an adult male in skinny jeans defending her honor.

[redzero]

"defending her honor"
skinny jeans smack that wasn't funny the first time
claiming to know how a performance/character in a movie that isn't out until next year will affect the overall quality of the film

[DPG21920]

Oh really, so by that logic, you can't watch any preview or hear about any movie and pass judgement until you have seen it. Should I find a link of a trailer that you said looks bad?

Also, if you could name one movie where Catwoman added to the overall quality in a positive way can you let us know?

You rushed to Catwoman's defense so fast She's not real bro.

[redzero]

Oh really, so by that logic, you can't watch any preview or hear about any movie and pass judgement until you have seen it.

One can make judgments about movies based on previews. What you did, however, was assert that a performance that you don't know anything about will contribute nothing to the film that you know nothing about except save a few characters. That's kind of stupid. I don't know if the character will be good or not, so I'm not going to judge her role beforehand.

Should I find a link of a trailer that you said looks bad?

Expressing an opinion about something =/= making baseless assertions. You did the latter.

Also, if you could name one movie where Catwoman added to the overall quality in a positive way can you let us know?

I'm confused, are you basing your claim off a preview or off other movies? If the latter, what do those movies have to do with this movie?

You rushed to Catwoman's defense so fast She's not real bro.

If your best move right now is to go the "don't take this too seriously route" when you are called out for posting something idiotic, you should probably stop right now. Maybe you should go back to the skinny jeans jokes, because this isn't working either.

[DPG21920]

One can make judgments about movies based on previews. What you did, however, was assert that a performance that you don't know anything about will contribute nothing to the film that you know nothing about except save a few characters. That's kind of stupid. I don't know if the character will be good or not, so I'm not going to judge her role beforehand.

Implying you have to see a preview and can't make judgements based on other information. Can you link to that rule? I have seen the teaser. I have seen the photos. I have seen every other Batman movie/other movie that had Catwoman in them and they all suck. That is more than enough information for a normal non-emo high functioning adult to make a assumption.

So to clarify, you are saying 1 minute previews give you enough of an idea to assert how a performance will contribute to the overall film, but previous entire movies, the costume, teaser trailers and photos are not enough?

It's ok to judge every other movie in the world, but not this one. Not this one

Expressing an opinion about something =/= making baseless assertions. You did the latter.

I'm confused, are you basing your claim off a preview or off other movies? If the latter, what do those movies have to do with this movie?

So a "baseless assertion" is not an opinion? I don't know why this makes you so mad. If someone was talking about Twilight and a new character, I doubt you would come rushing to the movie's defense

I am basing my claim, like any other rational adult male, off of all the information I have which includes how ty Catwoman has been in every appearance. Acting like saying every Catwoman before has sucked so there is a good chance she won't add anything good along with the fact her costume pics so far look like ass makes you look really, really upset and stupid.

So your stance is you can't say anything, one way or the other until we get to see the 1 minute preview. Only then can you begin to form a true opinion because you will have sufficient information? If so, you are an idiot if you think that makes a difference and gives you any more information. Like any other normal functioning adult male, I am simply using my instincts and the information at my disposal to date to make a judgement call. I think Catwoman is a character and I don't take women villains seriously. Everything I have seen to date with regards to Catwoman only serves to back that up.

If your best move right now is to go the "don't take this too seriously route" when you are called out for posting something idiotic, you should probably stop right now. Maybe you should go back to the skinny jeans jokes, because this isn't working either.

Well if you as an adult male with a picture of Batman in his avatar who just rushed to defend the honor of Catwoman with terrible logic doesn't tell you that you take this to seriously, then you are mentally weak already and you have way bigger problems.


I never said the movie will be bad, I said that based on all I know about Catwoman (which is more than a 1 minute preview will tell us eventually) that I don't see her adding to the movie at all in a meaningful way to me. I am sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[redzero]

Implying you have to see a preview

No, I didn't.

and can't make judgements based on other information.

Oh, do you know something about this film that we don't? If you do, please share it with us.

I have seen the teaser.

Didn't show Catwoman, so your point is?

I have seen the photos.

Are you basing your claim off the pics?

I have seen every other Batman movie/other movie that had Catwoman in them and they all suck.

Irrelevant to this movie.

That is more than enough information

What information? What do you know that we don't.

for a normal non-emo high functioning adult to make a assumption.

What do emo people have to do with this? You aren't making much sense.

So to clarify, you are saying 1 minute previews give you enough of an idea to assert how a performance will contribute to the overall film

Uh, no, not really.

but previous entire movies

Irrelevant to this film.

the costume

The one she will be wearing in this movie? Yeah, people ed about how Heath Ledger's Joker looked, and how did that turn out?

teaser trailers

Didn't show Catwoman or much of anything.

and photos are not enough?

Basing your claims off three photos that have barely any context.

It's ok to judge every other movie in the world, but not this one. Not this one

Strawman.

So a "baseless assertion" is not an opinion?

It can be.

I don't know why this makes you so mad.

I'm responding to you on a message board without calling you names like "emo." Since when did disagreeing with somebody automatically make one mad?

I am basing my claim, like any other rational adult male, off of all the information I have which includes how ty Catwoman has been in every appearance.

Again, those performances don't have anything to do with this film.

Acting like saying every Catwoman before has sucked so there is a good chance she won't add anything good

That's not sound reasoning.

along with the fact her costume pics so far look like ass

So, again, you're basing your claim off three pictures? Really?

makes you look really, really upset and stupid.

I think you're the mad one here.

So your stance is you can't say anything, one way or the other until we get to see the 1 minute preview. Only then can you begin to form a true opinion because you will have sufficient information?

Nope. You lack reading comprehension.

If so, you are an idiot if you think that makes a difference and gives you any more information.

More name calling. You sure are upset right now that somebody is disagreeing with you on a message board.

Like any other normal functioning adult male, I am simply using my instincts and the information at my disposal to date to make a judgement call.

Again, you aren't using any information except a few pics.

I think Catwoman is a character

Based solely off of movies that were terrible to begin with?

and I don't take women villains seriously.

Who says that she will be a villain?

Everything I have seen to date with regards to Catwoman only serves to back that up.

Irrelevant to this movie.

Well if you as an adult male with a picture of Batman in his avatar who just rushed

You keep posting that. How did I rush? I responded to your post ten minutes later. When is the acceptable amount of time to wait to respond to a post on a message board?

to defend the honor of Catwoman

I criticized the reasoning of your claims. That's it.

with terrible logic doesn't tell you that you take this to seriously, then you are mentally weak already and you have way bigger problems.

You need to calm down, bro. Can't we have a discussion without all of this name calling?

I never said the movie will be bad

Didn't say that you did.

I said that based on all I know about Catwoman (which is more than a 1 minute preview will tell us eventually)

To what are you referring to? The 1960's Batman film, Batman Returns and a Catwoman movie that has nothing to do with this movie? If you have evidence that Nolan will be drawing heavily from these movies, you might have a point.

that I don't see her adding to the movie at all in a meaningful way to me.

That's not what you posted. From the tone of your post, you claimed to know how this character will affect the movie as a whole. You didn't post, "I don't think character will improve the movie in anyway." You already expressed a similar opinion about Catwoman in this thread, and I didn't criticize you for it.

I am sorry if that hurts your feelings.

It seems like you're the one with the hurt feelings, since you are calling other posters "emo," "stupid," and "mentally weak" for disagreeing with you.

[CuckingFunt]

Also, if you could name one movie where Catwoman added to the overall quality in a positive way can you let us know?

[DPG21920]

one can make judgments about movies based on previews.

o rly?

[redzero]

I posted that. What's your point? I never claimed that one can only form opinions after watching a preview. Also, I was responding to something you posted about previews. I didn't bring previews up.

[DPG21920]

She added nothing to the movie, CF.

Also "from the tone of my post". Do you have proof of my tone? What are you basing that off of? Just one post? That's it? That's hardly enough to think you can suggest how one post suggests my thoughts on the overall impact of something. One post is simply not enough. You can make a guess based on numerous posts, but one? That's what you are basing it off of?

Also, again, at saying the previous movies with the character have nothing to do with anything. That is why I say you might be too emotionally invested in this one (as evidenced by your poor logic and quickness to defend Catwoman).

I would possibly understand your argument if this was a character that had been done well before and really added to a movie. This isn't the same as people questioning make up or the casting of Heath as the Joker. The Joker had already proven that he could be a character done well and add to the storyline. So it's natural to question whether someone could pull that off.

Catwoman has never been done well and it's hard to imagine how in any way shape or form a woman superhero can be done well, especially Catwoman. It's not the same thing, so the fact it's never been successful has a direct correlation to projecting how this one will turn out. I'm sorry if you need to see the 1 minute trailer (your words that I directly quoted) before you can make your decision, but the info available to all other normal fully functioning adult males which yes, does include the fact no movie has had a good Catwoman because the character itself seems difficult to do, is enough for me to make my assumption. Again, I'm sorry if you dislike this and love Catwoman.

[DPG21920]

I posted that. What's your point? I never claimed that one can only form opinions after watching a preview. Also, I was responding to something you posted about previews. I didn't bring previews up.

You said you can form opinions after watching a trailer, but not using what I said (teaser, pictures, previous movies), so what else is there ? Basically you said you can only form an opinion off of 1 minute trailer or after watching the movie then?

Who cares if you brought it up, you said that you can make the assertion I did after seeing a trailer, but not before, and I argued that was a stupid way to reason and pointed out why since a 1 minute trailer won't tell you any more than I already know. At least not to the point where it could make such a huge difference to appease your emo ways.

Please explain how seeing a one minute trailer would make anyone more qualified to assess an entire characters performance in a movie?

[CuckingFunt]

She added nothing to the movie, CF.

Your opinion. Which is fine.

Emblematic of the problem with your argument, however. The fact you have a personal dislike of Catwoman as a character is not enough to support the suggestion that her presence in The Dark Knight Rises will ruin the film as a whole. At least not to any measurable degree, and not for every viewer. At the most, you can claim that Catwoman's presence in the film will ruin the experience for you personally because you don't like the character in any iteration, but that has roughly zero to do with the film itself and is quite different from the argument you are actually trying to make here.

Catwoman has never been done well and it's hard to imagine how in any way shape or form a woman superhero can be done well,

See above.

[Sense]

I'm just here to post this one thing... don't know wtf this stupid argument is about, but I do know that...


you can't beat redzero.. he knows everything.. and everything he likes is too cool for you. If you like something he doesn't like, he'll let you know that whatever it is you don't like.. is ty. Just end the argument with "Ok redzero you're so right, I apologize" and he'll go to another thread to try to do the same..

[DPG21920]

Your opinion. Which is fine.

Emblematic of the problem with your argument, however. The fact you have a personal dislike of Catwoman as a character is not enough to support the suggestion that her presence in The Dark Knight Rises will ruin the film as a whole. At least not to any measurable degree, and not for every viewer. At the most, you can claim that Catwoman's presence in the film will ruin the experience for you personally because you don't like the character in any iteration, but that has roughly zero to do with the film itself and is quite different from the argument you are actually trying to make here.



See above.

I didn't say she would ruin the movie. I said I don't see her adding anything to the movie and she could take away from it. I said in fact, I expect the movie to be great in spite of her.

[redzero]

Also "from the tone of my post". Do you have proof of my tone? What are you basing that off of?Just one post?

Unless you have changed you assertion since the post was made. Have you?

That's it? That's hardly enough to think you can suggest how one post suggests my thoughts on the overall impact of something. One post is simply not enough. You can make a guess based on numerous posts, but one? That's what you are basing it off of?

This comparison would work if I was judging your posts based off of the posts of somebody else. I'm not, so bad comparison.

Also, again, at saying the previous movies with the character have nothing to do with anything. That is why I say you might be too emotionally invested in this one (as evidenced by your poor logic and quickness to defend Catwoman).

Repeating the same illogical claims don't make said claims any truer.

I would possibly understand your argument if this was a character that had been done well before and really added to a movie.

There are these people called writers. They, along with others, kind of have an effect on how a character is portrayed in a movie. Can you show me that the people who worked on the previous movies have influenced this one's Selina Kyle in an important way?

This isn't the same as people questioning make up or the casting of Heath as the Joker. The Joker had already proven that he could be a character done well and add to the storyline.

See above. Just because one adaptation did something well doesn't mean that another one will (or won't, for that matter) do it well.

So it's natural to question whether someone could pull that off.

Again, that's okay. It's okay to question whether the character will have a positive effect on the movie. I didn't claim otherwise because I do not know whether Anne Hathaway's Selina Kyle will be good or not because I haven't seen the movie, the script, any previews of her outside of four pictures, or any major information about her role in the film.

What you did was not just claim that you had your doubts. Repeatedly acting like you did doesn't change what you posted.

Catwoman has never been done well and it's hard to imagine how in any way shape or form a woman superhero can be done well, especially Catwoman.

Okay.

It's not the same thing, so the fact it's never been successful has a direct correlation to projecting how this one will turn out.

No it does not. For the millionth time, if you can show me evidence of Nolan drawing heavily from the previous movies that featured Catwoman, your biases that were passed off as fact might have a lot more weight.

I'm sorry if you need to see the 1 minute trailer (your words that I directly quoted) before you can make your decision

Nope, you really lack reading comprehension.

but the info available to all other normal fully functioning adult males which yes

What info?

does include the fact no movie has had a good Catwoman because the character itself seems difficult to do

Already addressed this.

is enough for me to make my assumption.

Okay, passing off assumptions as fact without knowing anything about the plot of the movie outside of the ambiguous trailer and a few set pics, is perfectly logical thing to do. I stand corrected.

Again, I'm sorry if you dislike this and love Catwoman.

I don't have a problem with you disliking Catwoman. Again, repeatedly trying to assert otherwise does not help your argument or your credibility.

[DPG21920]

Redzero is being very professional about this Catwoman argument.

[redzero]

You said you can form opinions after watching a trailer

One can.

but not using what I said

Okay, let's review your points of reference.

teaser

It depends on what your opinion is and the content of the teaser. If you are forming an opinion about a character based on a teaser that doesn't show (or even hint about in anyway) the character, I would say that your reasoning is poor.

pictures

A few out of context pictures might be enough for you, but they are not sufficient enough in general to assert that a character will have no positive impact on a movie.

previous movies

Sigh. Irrelevant.

so what else is there ?

Um, I don't know... what should one use as a point of reference when forming an opinion on a character in an upcoming film? Oh, I don't know, maybe information on said character's role in said upcoming film.

Basically you said you can only form an opinion off of 1 minute trailer or after watching the movie then?

Yawn. Another strawman.

Who cares if you brought it up,

I think you meant "if I brought it up."

you said that you can make the assertion I did after seeing a trailer

I not once claimed that making baseless assertions about a character based on a trailer that doesn't feature said character is reasonable or logical.

but not before

Nope. Again, you lack reading comprehension. You brought up previews. I said that it is okay to form an opinion about a movie based on the preview--not make baseless assertions about characters who aren't in the preview.

and I argued that was a stupid way to reason and pointed out why since a 1 minute trailer won't tell you any more than I already know.

1.)How do you know what a trailer would tell you?
2.)What do you already know?

At least not to the point where it could make such a huge difference to appease your emo ways.

You really like throwing around terms you don't understand.

Please explain how seeing a one minute trailer would make anyone more qualified to assess an entire characters performance in a movie?

I said that one can form opinions about movies based on trailers--not one can assert that a character will contribute nothing to a movie based on a trailer that doesn't feature said character. You obviously didn't comprehend my post well. I thought I made it clear.

I have to say that your posts in this thread are kind of a let down compared to your other work--even the stuff we have disagreed on before.

[redzero]

Redzero is being very professional about this Catwoman argument.

I am merely using logic and reasoning in my posts without resorting to name calling. Sorry if you find that funny.

[DPG21920]

Sigh, the infamous random internet forum throw away "step up your posting / you're old stuff was better..." stuff.

You are emotionally attached to this. Just like I said. The fact you didn't jump over the Superman thread where people were making assumptions in a similar manner (because it's an extremely common thing to do if you aren't emotionally involved), but you did here, only highlights that fact.

[CuckingFunt]

I didn't say she would ruin the movie. I said I don't see her adding anything to the movie and she could take away from it. I said in fact, I expect the movie to be great in spite of her.

In your original post, yes. Since then you have been arguing up and down that you, with some certainty, know that Catwoman will be horribly treated and will bring down the rest of the movie and that this assumption is somehow based on something other than the fact that you simply don't like the character.

[DPG21920]

I am merely using logic and reasoning in my posts without resorting to name calling. Sorry if you find that funny.

Just saying you are using logic doesn't mean it's good logic. The fact you keep saying other portrayals have no bearing is intellectually dishonest at best and foolish at worst if you actually believe that.

Some characters are hard to imagine being really good, do you agree or not? Sometimes, things are done and re-done and none of them work out. It is not a stretch to say that based on everything we know (other movies, comics, ...) that the character itself, regardless of who is playing it and who is directing just isn't very interesting.

Clinging to the fact "well, we don't know how Nolan will portray her and we can't know unless we see a trailer that shows Catwoman or until after we see the movie" is just flat out dumb. It's called deductive reasoning. I am deducing that because the character itself is weak (IMO) that it will add nothing because nothing to date has changed that fact for me. Could that be different? Sure, but with everything I have to go off of so far, I don't see it which is why I am skeptical.

[DPG21920]

In your original post, yes. Since then you have been arguing up and down that you, with some certainty, know that Catwoman will be horribly treated and will bring down the rest of the movie and that this assumption is somehow based on something other than the fact that you simply don't like the character.

So my original post is what we go off of. The rest of the argument was because RedZero freaked out because he loves Catwoman so much. I never said at all that she will be horrible treated (please link to where I said that). My theme in my original posts that drew RZ's ire was that Catwoman has always sucked and the movie will be great despite her being in it bc I can't see her adding anything.