I'm sure this has been discussed...

[clambake]

are you saying your team dropped the ball?

[ElNono]

Have you downloaded the .pdf and opened it in Illustrator to satisfy yourself?

Wild Cobra did on the other thread and posted a split of the layers. If you look at the back green layer, there's everything you need to know. The guy on the video is actually looking at the wrong thing. He should be looking for doctoring on the background green layer, not the text over it.

When I said manipulated, the video I posted below, describes how the linked image (in one case the a date at the bottom of the form) was sized and rotated when it was linked.

Does OCR Optimization resize and rotate when it does its thing?

Yes. That's what layering is there for on high end scanners. Hints the OCR system in the scanner on how to process the text (left to right, vertical, etc).

As for why they would have released it in this form, you're guess is as good as mine.

They scanned it, and released it. As a matter of fact, releasing it as non-layered do ent would have yielded more scrutiny, not less. It's a lot easier to doctor a single layer do ent.

[Yonivore]

I'm not convinced but, I don't have the level of expertise from which to argue so...d'okie dokie.

No need to beat the horse anymore.

By the way, I didn't start the thread to kick up . I saw the video I posted back at the end of April, close to when it was posted. If I were some birther zealot, you would think I would have seized on it then and made a big deal.

Fact of the matter is, I've been extremely busy since then and it didn't occur to me until something jogged my memory this morning. I thought I would run it by the forum to see what had been discussed on the topic.

Since I started this thread, I've watched several videos on both sides of the issues -- by self-proclaimed experts. I have no idea if WC's credentials are better or worse than theirs.

[Yonivore]

Has anybody debunked this yet?

I don't know, have they? It's a cool video.

[RandomGuy]

Is it reasonable, that the expert faking it, presumedly competant, and having sufficient time available to do a pretty good job, would have left all of these layers in the do ent to be found by the first nutball with Adobe?

They're an arrogant bunch, aren't they?

So your answer, is yes, someone with the power and money that Obama has, asked a total amateur to fake his birth certificate in such a way as to be readily obvious to the nutballs who they know will absolutely be combing over the file with a fine tooth comb.

That's what you are going with?

[ElNono]

There's a myriad of experts in digital do ent forensics out there. Like people with real credentials, not guys that post a youtube. If this is a forgery you would know by now.

[Yonivore]

Is it reasonable, that the expert faking it, presumedly competant, and having sufficient time available to do a pretty good job, would have left all of these layers in the do ent to be found by the first nutball with Adobe?



So your answer, is yes, someone with the power and money that Obama has, asked a total amateur to fake his birth certificate in such a way as to be readily obvious to the nutballs who they know will absolutely be combing over the file with a fine tooth comb.

That's what you are going with?

Yep. Didn't Geithner say there wouldn't be a downgrade?

The guy is surrounded by arrogant incompetents. I have no doubt there could be some one in his circle pretending to be an Adobe expert that ed this up.

Yep, I think it's possible. Having said that, I backing off my claim unless and until more comes out.

[Yonivore]

There's a myriad of experts in digital do ent forensics out there. Like people with real credentials, not guys that post a youtube. If this is a forgery you would know by now.

Seems to be a lot of competing experts out there.

It took a geek in his pajamas to out Dan Rather's fraud. And, he had people with "real credentials" supporting his assertion.

Sorry, this is a ed up world we live in where people will do and say anything they're paid to do or say.

[clambake]

Sorry, this is a ed up world we live in where people will do and say anything they're paid to do or say.

leave powell out of this.

[MannyIsGod]

Seems to be a lot of competing experts out there.

It took a geek in his pajamas to out Dan Rather's fraud. And, he had people with "real credentials" supporting his assertion.

Sorry, this is a ed up world we live in where people will do and say anything they're paid to do or say.

Obviously - how do you think we got into Iraq? Lol Niger.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Give Yoni credit he is consistent.. he consistently jumps the gun on anything anti - obama

oh and he is still sure there are wmds in Iraq...

[ElNono]

Seems to be a lot of competing experts out there.

There's a lot of experts. Not sure about 'competing'.

It took a geek in his pajamas to out Dan Rather's fraud. And, he had people with "real credentials" supporting his assertion.

The Dan Rather's do ents weren't digital. CBS also didn't authenticate them. Once looked up by actual experts (guys like Joseph Newcomer, who has well over 30 years of computer font technology experience) or Bill Flynn (an authority on the subject at the time), they were actually declared a forgery.

But that's the kind of experts you go for when you're looking to authenticate do ents, not youtube.

Sorry, this is a ed up world we live in where people will do and say anything they're paid to do or say.

It works both ways. How do you know those guys that posted the videos aren't getting paid either?

[ElNono]

From a technical standpoint, I would expect a better explanation than what's on the videos.
IE: How the doctoring on the lower (green) layer was done (since there's the obvious text outline there). But that's not even touched in the videos at all.

[Dan Rather]

Seems to be a lot of competing experts out there.

It took a geek in his pajamas to out Dan Rather's fraud. And, he had people with "real credentials" supporting his assertion.

Sorry, this is a ed up world we live in where people will do and say anything they're paid to do or say.

yonivore. Only a dumbass would think this crap is still news worthy.

[ElNono]

Ain't you dead?

[Wild Cobra]

The problem here seems to be that Yoni doesn't know or understands how Illustrator or scanners work. Which is exactly the gullible people the author of those videos is targeting.

Congrats Yoni!

How do you explain the rotation and the two different scaling factors?

[Wild Cobra]

yonivore. Only a dumbass would think this crap is still news worthy.

Dan, what I don't understand is why did they put out a questionable do ent if the original is real. The next day, they should have released a clean copy.

[ElNono]

How do you explain the rotation and the two different scaling factors?

What's there that needs explaining? Illustrator is not a PDF editor. It actually renders the PDF layers into vector layers. That should answer your question.

If you're looking to detect whether this is a forgery, the first thing you would be looking at is the white text outline on the green layer. Doctoring is easier to detect in shaded parts (it's harder to match a gradient than a solid stroke, and a cloned area is easier to spot).

But we already went through this in the other thread, and you already acknowledged this isn't a forgery.

[ElNono]

Dan, what I don't understand is why did they put out a questionable do ent if the original is real. The next day, they should have released a clean copy.

What's questionable about the do ent?

Or better yet, what kind of do ent WOULDN'T be questionable?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stupid troll is stupid.

[Wild Cobra]

What's questionable about the do ent?

Or better yet, what kind of do ent WOULDN'T be questionable?

I already pointed that out.

Also, I don't recall acknowledging it wasn't a forgery. I believe I said that I didn't think it was, at the time, and was asked "yes" or "no." I wasn't going to say "yes" without more evidence.

I don't know now that it is. Only that it is highly questionable. There was no reason to process the do ent like they did. If the do ent was real, then this had to be done to keep the controversy alive. Afterall, being labeled a "birther" is a bad thing, and maybe they want more of the opposition to be labeled as such.

[ElNono]

Also, I don't recall acknowledging it wasn't a forgery. I believe I said that I didn't think it was, at the time, and was asked "yes" or "no." I wasn't going to say "yes" without more evidence.

so you were acknowledging it wasn't a forgery... I mean, I don't expect to get anything but your opinion, as I'm aware you've no expertise on the matter:

No. I don't think it's a forgery.

I don't know now that it is. Only that it is highly questionable.

What's questionable about it?

There was no reason to process the do ent like they did.

How was it processed?

If the do ent was real, then this had to be done to keep the controversy alive.

What was 'done' to it to keep the controversy alive?

Afterall, being labeled a "birther" is a bad thing, and maybe they want more of the opposition to be labeled as such.

So now not only it's a forgery, you think it's purposely forged to make birthers look bad?.

[LnGrrrR]

...ad nauseum, in this forum but, I wasn't around for the fight and, I'm interested to know if anyone was able to debunk the video beyond just engaging in a spittle-flecked birther rant.

This YouTuber posted this video on April 27, the day President Obama allowed a PDF version of his long form birth certificate to be posted on the White House website.

I think the poster makes a compelling case the birth certificate has been significantly altered. What do you say?

I'm sure this has already been said, but you're wrong.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not convinced but, I don't have the level of expertise from which to argue so...d'okie dokie.

No need to beat the horse anymore.

By the way, I didn't start the thread to kick up . I saw the video I posted back at the end of April, close to when it was posted. If I were some birther zealot, you would think I would have seized on it then and made a big deal.

Fact of the matter is, I've been extremely busy since then and it didn't occur to me until something jogged my memory this morning. I thought I would run it by the forum to see what had been discussed on the topic.

Since I started this thread, I've watched several videos on both sides of the issues -- by self-proclaimed experts. I have no idea if WC's credentials are better or worse than theirs.

Look, I'm completely unbiased, even though I grasp at every possible straw that suggests Obama wasn't born here.

[ChumpDumper]

lol compelling