Rick Perry's debt bomb

[ElNono]

boutons believe millions of people immigrate here for the Walmart jobs.

Mexicans do.

[DMX7]

Rick Perry says the Federal Reserve is committing treason for printing money... the guy who literally (and on multiple occasions) has threatened succession which is actual treason.

[ElNono]

Depends what you're talking about. The concept for the big network of new state wide tollways known as the Trans Texas Corridor is dead, but on a local basis, tolls are already in place on facilities in Dallas, Houston and Austin. Tolls in San Antonio are only a matter of time.

I've mostly driven from San Antonio to the valley. Good roads and no tolls.

I get that tolls are unpopular, but respectfully disagree that tolls are a scam. Roads cost money. In Texas, 1/4 of our gas tax revenue is diverted to education by cons utional amendment. The remaining tax money basically covers maintenance of the existing facilities. There's little to no money for projects to add capacity. Since Texas insists on not raising the gas tax, added capacity projects need a source of revenue to fund them. That means tolls.
Fundamentally, tolls aren't any more of a scam than taxes are.

It's worse than a tax. Not only you're paying for infrastructure, but also a premium for profits to whoever is running the system. It becomes such a cash cow that ends up with influence, not caring about the infrastructure they're supposed to take care of, and completely loses it's purpose after a while. The big problem with it is that once politicos realize how much money you get from it, they can't let go.

Over here we have the 2 major cross-state highways (NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway) with tolls. The Turnpike from end to end (113 miles) will run you $9. That's $9 each way. Just last weekend I had to take it North for about 20 miles: $3.15 each way. And that's for a road. When I travel south, you're better off taking I-295 which runs parallel, it's toll-free, it's in better shape and is less congested (has more lanes in certain parts too).
The Parkway is much cheaper (between $1-$4 depending where you get in and out), and it's in much better shape than the Turnpike. Yet, it was not long ago that the rates didn't go over $0.25.

If you work in NY (lots of people do around these places), you also have to tack in $8 toll for crossing the bridge from NJ to NY. That toll is going up to $12 next month, and $14 by 2014. If you're headed to Philly, then that's a $1-$3 toll depending on where you cross.

It's just out of control at this point. People that have to travel those roads every day to go to work and back, it adds up real quick. As usual, when the tolls were first introduced, the excuse was that they were 'temporary', etc.
Once you have them, they're not going away though.

[coyotes_geek]

It's worse than a tax. Not only you're paying for infrastructure, but also a premium for profits to whoever is running the system. It becomes such a cash cow that ends up with influence, not caring about the infrastructure they're supposed to take care of, and completely loses it's purpose after a while. The big problem with it is that once politicos realize how much money you get from it, they can't let go.

That sounds more like a problem with oversight and elected officials being held accountable than it does with tolling as a concept. Profits are still there when you use taxes to fund roads, as is the problem with politicos not wanting to let go of taxes as a source of revenue.

Over here we have the 2 major cross-state highways (NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway) with tolls. The Turnpike from end to end (113 miles) will run you $9. That's $9 each way. Just last weekend I had to take it North for about 20 miles: $3.15 each way. And that's for a road. When I travel south, you're better off taking I-295 which runs parallel, it's toll-free, it's in better shape and is less congested (has more lanes in certain parts too).
The Parkway is much cheaper (between $1-$4 depending where you get in and out), and it's in much better shape than the Turnpike. Yet, it was not long ago that the rates didn't go over $0.25.

If you work in NY (lots of people do around these places), you also have to tack in $8 toll for crossing the bridge from NJ to NY. That toll is going up to $12 next month, and $14 by 2014. If you're headed to Philly, then that's a $1-$3 toll depending on where you cross.

$14 to cross a bridge sounds kinda high, but TBH the other costs you've mentioned are pretty much in line with what the rest of the nation is paying. For primarily rural driving, toll rates run about $0.07-$0.10 a mile. Urban is higher, usually in the $0.12-$0.15 range.

It's just out of control at this point. People that have to travel those roads every day to go to work and back, it adds up real quick. As usual, when the tolls were first introduced, the excuse was that they were 'temporary', etc.
Once you have them, they're not going away though.

The alternative to tolls is there. Just raise the gas tax.

[ElNono]

That sounds more like a problem with oversight and elected officials being held accountable than it does with tolling as a concept. Profits are still there when you use taxes to fund roads, as is the problem with politicos not wanting to let go of taxes as a source of revenue.

When tolls came over, taxes didn't go down though. Money just got diverted somewhere else. We're now also subsidizing private companies like E-Z Pass, and paying toll collector's salaries.

$14 to cross a bridge sounds kinda high, but TBH the other costs you've mentioned are pretty much in line with what the rest of the nation is paying. For primarily rural driving, toll rates run about $0.07-$0.10 a mile. Urban is higher, usually in the $0.12-$0.15 range.

There really isn't that many toll roads across the nation.

I can drive from here to Florida and the only places I would need to pay a toll would be Delaware and Florida (and NJ, obviously).

The alternative to tolls is there. Just raise the gas tax.

Doesn't have to come from there either, IMO. Just better management of funds.

[coyotes_geek]

When tolls came over, taxes didn't go down though. Money just got diverted somewhere else. We're now also subsidizing private companies like E-Z Pass, and paying toll collector's salaries.

Is that really much different than a governmental en y selling bonds to finance a project, using taxes to pay off those bonds, and then taxes not going down after the bonds get paid off?

There really isn't that many toll roads across the nation.

I can drive from here to Florida and the only places I would need to pay a toll would be Delaware and Florida (and NJ, obviously).

True there aren't that many toll roads compared to the rest of the system, but that list isn't nearly a complete one. None of the Texas toll roads show up on it for example.

Doesn't have to come from there either, IMO. Just better management of funds.

I'm certainly all for better management of funds.

[ElNono]

Is that really much different than a governmental en y selling bonds to finance a project, using taxes to pay off those bonds, and then taxes not going down after the bonds get paid off?

Well, it is different in that the private lender stops making money (the interest) at tax payers's expense once the bonds are paid off. Here you have a system where a private company like EZ-Pass leeches money on a constant basis, and if you choose not to use them, you get penalized with a higher toll price (at least that's how it works here).

True there aren't that many toll roads compared to the rest of the system, but that list isn't nearly a complete one. None of the Texas toll roads show up on it for example.

Fair enough. I knew there weren't that many, but I didn't know the list was incomplete.

I'm certainly all for better management of funds.

[RandomGuy]

Rick Perry says the Federal Reserve is committing treason for printing money... the guy who literally (and on multiple occasions) has threatened succession which is actual treason.

... and now he is running the agency he wanted to abolish, but couldn't even name when asked about it in a debate. Wow.