This makes me sick...

[Sense]

I had not seen it til today, not sure if it was posted in the politics forum or here, idrgaf...

[Sisk]

It's ed up, no doubt. As far as the helicopter attacking them, their camera could be mistaken for a weapon. Apparently there was a squad under fire near that area that had just taken RPG fire and was requesting assistance.

Anyways, when your enemy dresses up as civilians it's impossible to know who your true enemy is. That's why this happens frequently. We could go on for days and days about why we're there and all of that, but the bottom line is that in a war zone where your enemy is in disguise, this will happen. Not defending it, just stating the facts.

[Sisk]

Also, it's easy to criticize people's actions in a war zone. I've never been to war - so I'm not going to begin to act like I know how I would act in any given situation. They say things like "got those bas s" and what-not that I know adds shock value (as if it's needed) to the video and makes people pissed off. However, it's their understanding that these people had engaged their own men or were on their way to attack. They weren't aware that they were journalists.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

A re ed neoconservative Aggie ball squeezer trying to justify killing a bunch of innocent people?

Who woulda seen that one coming!

[Sisk]

You're an idiot if you think I'm justifying anything. It is ed up and terribly sad. It shouldn't have happened. Just like friendly fire shouldn't happen. Just like no civilian should ever die in a war. But we live in a ed up world.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You're an idiot if you think I'm justifying anything.

this isn't trying to justify it:

their camera could be mistaken for a weapon

when your enemy dresses up as civilians it's impossible to know who your true enemy is. That's why this happens frequently.

in a war zone where your enemy is in disguise, this will happen.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You're an idiot if you think I'm justifying anything. It is ed up and terribly sad. It shouldn't have happened. Just like friendly fire shouldn't happen. Just like no civilian should ever die in a war. But we live in a ed up world.

classic military logic.

"Yeah we supposedly kill a bunch of innocent people who don't deserve to die in the slightest who we're supposed to be 'spreading freedom' to, but oh well what are you gonna do, charge it to tha game!"

[Sisk]

I'm stating how this could happen. Not saying that, in hindsight, their actions were correct. Obviously, they weren't. But given what they thought at that time I can see how they believed the actions they took were necessary.

Once again, I do not support or condone what happened. It's a terrible ing situation.

[Sisk]

So, given your post, you believe that they knew that these people were innocent the whole time? That they knew children were in the van? That they knew it was a camera? That they knew they were media members?

If you believe all that, then I understand your anger.

I believe they thought they were armed with AK-47's and RPGs. They believed they were about to flank their soldiers. That's what I think, and that's what their dialogue and actions suggest.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So, given your post, you believe that they knew that these people were innocent the whole time? That they knew children were in the van? That they knew it was a camera? That they knew they were media members?

If you believe all that, then I understand your anger.

I believe they thought they were armed with AK-47's and RPGs. They believed they were about to flank their soldiers. That's what I think, and that's what their dialogue and actions suggest.

so unless the military knows there is a 100% chance someone is innocent, it's OK to shoot them? MY WHOLE ING POINT IS HOW ED the military's "Blow everything to , then investigate and ask questions once the civilians are dead" procedure is barbaric and disgraceful to America.

In Aggieland tho, you guys seem to think it's awesome. It's why every billy badass who was picked on in school joins the military so he can go shoot up some innocent people.

[Sisk]

so unless the military knows there is a 100% chance someone is innocent, it's OK to shoot them? MY WHOLE ING POINT IS HOW ED the military's "Blow everything to , then investigate and ask questions once the civilians are dead" procedure is barbaric and disgraceful to America.

In Aggieland tho, you guys seem to think it's awesome. It's why every billy badass who was picked on in school joins the military so he can go shoot up some innocent people.

So on the flip side, they don't engage. They assume they're camera's and tripods so they choose not to attack them.

The men continue to advance and turns out, they had RPGs and AK-47's. They successfully flank a platoon of Army Rangers. 8 Rangers are killed. When the RPG is fired, it hits a house that the Rangers are walking by, killing a mother, a father, and their two children.

[BlackSwordsMan]

How could you not join Al-Queda when your friends get blown up in front of you just for standing on a side walk. Jesus

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So on the flip side, they don't engage. They assume they're camera's and tripods so they choose not to attack them.

The men continue to advance and turns out, they had RPGs and AK-47's. They successfully flank a platoon of Army Rangers. 8 Rangers are killed. When the RPG is fired, it hits a house that the Rangers are walking by, killing a mother, a father, and their two children.

1) this^ is you "not trying to justify" it.
2) So you're saying all Iraqi citizens risk being killed if they are doing anything at all that can be mistaken as a threat to American troops? Man, and I thought Sadam Hussein was an oppressive dictator. He ain't compared to the US military.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

How could you not join Al-Queda when your friends get blown up in front of you just for standing on a side walk. Jesus

That's the thing dumb hicks don't realize. Videos like the one in the OP spread Islamic extremism. It becomes 100x easier for a terrorist organization to recruit new terrorists when they have a video of American soldiers murdering innocent Islamic people.

[Sisk]

1) this^ is you "not trying to justify" it.
2) So you're saying all Iraqi citizens risk being killed if they are doing anything at all that can be mistaken as a threat to American troops? Man, and I thought Sadam Hussein was an oppressive dictator. He ain't compared to the US military.

Yes, I am saying that. It's a war zone. In war zones, people die. Especially when the enemy is dressed up like you.

To compare Hussein to a foreign military force is just ignorant.

[Sisk]

That's the thing dumb hicks don't realize. Videos like the one in the OP spread Islamic extremism. It becomes 100x easier for a terrorist organization to recruit new terrorists when they have a video of American soldiers murdering innocent Islamic people.

I'm well aware of this.

It's just like your people and the Palestinians. I don't see you criticizing your father land.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yes, I am saying that. It's a war zone. In war zones, people die. Especially when the enemy is dressed up like you.

To compare Hussein to a foreign military force is just ignorant.

Who made it a in warzone? They were living there before it became a warzone, what the do you expect innocent Iraqis to do who had their lives thrown upside down by America's military?

[Sisk]

Who made it a in warzone? They were living there before it became a warzone, what the do you expect innocent Iraqis to do who had their lives thrown upside down by America's military?

I expect them to be angry and wants us to get the out. Not sure what you expect me to say.

[silverblk mystix]

How could you not join Al-Queda when your friends get blown up in front of you just for standing on a side walk. Jesus

You are really out of touch with reality. What did you think WAR was?

Butterflies & Panda Bears?

Where the were you when georgie bush was draggin' us into war just to satisfy his greed and his supporters greed?

If you wanna charge these deaths to anyone -start with the Bush administration.

War is killing each other and our military is no cleaner than their military.

Killing is killing-no matter how anyone tries to justify it-period.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It's just like your people and the Palestinians. I don't see you criticizing your father land.

No, it's not, and even still Israel has done plenty of ed up things to Palestinians, and there's a reason why the majority of Israel's population doesn't support what their military is doing.

There are countless Palestinian suicide bombings that kill innocent Israeli people. Iraq has never acted with any aggression whatsoever towards America. Iraq is not a threat in any way towards America or the American people. These aren't Iraqis living in the US, they're living in a country the US went across the world to occupy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I expect them to be angry and wants us to get the out. Not sure what you expect me to say.

I want you to say, "I'm OK with innocent Iraqis who never had any intention of harming America being helpless and waking up every day with a high probability of being killed" since that's what you've been arguing in this thread. You don't seem to care that the US military did to these Iraqi people the same thing that Nazi Germany did to innocent people across Europe.

[Sisk]

No, it's not, and even still Israel has done plenty of ed up things to Palestinians, and there's a reason why the majority of Israel's population doesn't support what their military is doing.

There are countless Palestinian suicide bombings that kill innocent Israeli people. Iraq has never acted with any aggression whatsoever towards America. Iraq is not a threat in any way towards America or the American people. These aren't Iraqis living in the US, they're living in a country the US went across the world to occupy.

The fact that each side adds fuel for hatred makes this situation very similar. Sorry you can't see that.

[Sisk]

I want you to say, "I'm OK with innocent Iraqis who never had any intention of harming America being helpless and waking up every day with a high probability of being killed" since that's what you've been arguing in this thread. You don't seem to care that the US military did to these Iraqi people the same thing that Nazi Germany did to innocent people across Europe.

And under Saddam their lives weren't at risk? Do you have any idea how many innocents died under Saddam? I disagree with all of these innocent killings. I wish none would happen, but that's not the world we live in. We need to leave Iraq and let them have their country back. That's what I think.

Holy comparing this to the holocaust. As a Jew, even. Wow. Not even close.

Oh, and:

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)."

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact that each side adds fuel for hatred makes this situation very similar. Sorry you can't see that.

A minute ago you said it's "just like". There's a difference between having some similarities and being "just like". Classic goalpost move.

The similarities between the two situations don't justify America killing innocent people in a country that was never a threat to America.

[Sisk]

A minute ago you said it's "just like". There's a difference between having some similarities and being "just like". Classic goalpost move.

The similarities between the two situations don't justify America killing innocent people in a country that was never a threat to America.

The jews/Israel wasn't a threat to Palestine before they came in and took their land from them. What did you say about the U.S. occupying Iraq? I'll give you that. But at least we're not saying "this was your home, but now it's ours".

Not moving any goalpost. You're just behind.