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Debatable, IMO. Shaq certainly did a disservice to himself half-assing it after leaving the Lakeshow. I think winning with the Heat really made him think he didn't have to try hard, and it backfired on him.
Winning with another great player doesn't diminish you. Magic is a top 5 player and he never won without Kareem who is a top 5 player.
Debatable, IMO. Shaq certainly did a disservice to himself half-assing it after leaving the Lakeshow. I think winning with the Heat really made him think he didn't have to try hard, and it backfired on him.
Don't be such a Kobe nuthugger Killa. Shaq was still much better and more dominant than anyone MJ had.
Ok, you still didn't recognize Jordan won all 6 rings without a top 10 player.
Winning without a top 10, 20 player one enhances your legacy
Let's be real the only thing shaq has on Kobe is he was the more consistently dominant finals performer, but even that has some holes. Not only in 2006 but even in 2004 (where Kobe struggled with his shooting)
Tex Winter (excerpt by Lazenby's "showtime") "Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too pasively. He had one big game. Outside of that he didnt do much. His boxing out and rebounding in that series was awful. he had only 1 assist in one of the games. He has always been in being a scorer, but he hasnt had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding" - Tex Winter ...
From the SA series same year,same book: "Defense in pro ball, is predicated on the support around the basket from your big man. Even though shaq was a big presence he was not a great shot-blocker and he didnt like to play the pick n roll so he put his teammates in jeopardy on the perimeter ... Payton was open to unfair criticism and fumed as he took the heat for Shaq's defense.
Lest we forget that Shaq was outplayed (sorta) in the first 2 games of the 2006 NBA finals by a man he dubbed "Erica" and by Mourning in the clincher.
BTW, In game 2, down 1-0 Shaq goes 1 for 7 from the field with 5pts, 6rebs, 2 TO's 0 blocks and 2 assists with only 1 foul ...Damp gets 6 pts. 13 rebs, 1, steal and 1 block but negates the MVP runner-up for that year.
In the clinching game Shaq redeems himself with: 9pts, 12rebs and 1 block in 30 mins. BUT Zo steps out with 8pts, 6 rebs and 5 blocks in only 14 mins.
In half the games of his win without Kobe, he was not the 1st (Wade) or even 2nd best player (dirk) in all 6 games and was not even the best big in 3 of them ...
Shaq is a great dominant big, and because of the rings i give him a slight edge on HAkeem as a great big man and just a smidge behind duncan. But when all the numbers are added up maybe he can pass Duncan but no way he passes Kobe.
Not huggin anyone, those are the facts. And besides who is bringing up MJ?
Ok, you still didn't recognize Jordan won all 6 rings without a top 10 player.
Winning without a top 10, 20 player one enhances your legacy
MJ>Kobe so why even bring up MJ here? the thread was debating the merits of Shaq/Kobe and someone brought up duncan. None of the 3 are in MJ's class ESPECIALLY shaq, unless you only care about dominant scoring. Which Shaq has on Timmy by a lot and even Kobe by a notch ...
he got no legit support at Magic but still managed 30+ pt/g, two times league's scoring leader remember? he carried his poorass team to the playoffs almost single-handedly and lost to da pistons who were da baddest ass in the east at that time
he then departed orlando to join da rockets playing w/ that 7'6 jinx, and thats when his game started to decline quite fast. had t-mac been drafted by spurs or lakers he would have won more rings then kobe or duncan did tbh
You my friend just made one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen on here, and that is saying A LOT. Are you a TMAC relative? Vince, is that you?
When you win the Finals nobody gives a . That's why arguing about Kobe's atrocious shooting the last time he was there is a waste of time. He won, end of story. Now, when you lose...
You gotta tell Tex that Shaq shot 63%(!) for that series. While Kobe was chucking at 38% and 17% from downtown, and basically throwing that series away. The Number 1 option on that team was doing his job. It was Robin misfiring on all cylinders.
Not sure why butturt lakerfan (not you) would bring up the GOAT here, since he makes Kobe looks like T-Mac, tbh.
lol sons, lakerfan out in full force to defend the rapist. no surprises there.
No doubt Kobe played like crap, but bball is a two-way sport. Shaq was guarded by 2 power forwards that series two very good defensive ones, but two PF's none the less. In fact Brown unlike Scott, Larry Brown and Bird focused Prince and his help on Kobe instead of double teaming shaq and it neutralized the Laker offense. Don't get me wrong Kobe was a dumbass for forcing shots ....but shaq did NOT do his job ...he did not dominate the series ...and if he can't do that he is a role player like he was in the 2006 Finals ...
When you have a dominant guy inside scoring at a 63% clip, you give the ball to him and move the away... unless you have Kobe's ego.
MJ is better but Kobe is closer to MJ than TMAc is to Kobe. Not that Kobe is close but the OP's premise is silly. TMAC needs to be compared to: pre-injury Benard King and Grant hill or a no coke David Thompson or Prime Iceman ...Kobe? GTFO.
Sorry, should've said "healthy T-Mac". Although "healthy T-Mac" probably >>> Kobe, tbh
Now we agree on something. But this was a God forsaken team that did not deserve to win .
Payton and fish were at odds
GP vs. PJ
Shaq vs. Kobe
Malone vs. Kobe's wife ...
Colorado
We did not deserve to win
(BTW I only regret losing the 3peat in '89 and the le in 1984 because I know the Lakers were better and did not win) That Laker team was not a cohesive unit and was poorly coached. Shaq recruited those guys and PJ wanted his guys to play (horry and Fisher).
Detroit gave us a clinic ...in team ball and Brown outcoached PJ ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 08-24-2011 at 09:59 PM.
LOL should of stopped while you were ahead I guess he was better than duncan too?
A healthy T-Mac? Probably in the conversation *IF* his defense would've been elite as baseline bum (? I think it was him) mentioned earlier in the thread. T-Mac certainly had the tools, but he wasted them.
Truth is Duncan in his prime was dominant on both sides of the floor (another trait Shaq had in his prime). Kobe has always been very inconsistent on defense and historically severely overrated on that side of the floor.
That Detroit team was a . A defensive juggernaut.
LOL Shaq was sooo dominant on defense? When was SHaq the leader of a top rated defense?
overrated stat since the dunk is naturally a high % shot...come again
When we start talking about we'll call you back
What help did he have inside during 2000-2003? Horry?
He was your entire inside defense around that time. Guarding guys like Malone, DRob, etc wasn't a picnic.
And that is why I give Duncan a slight edge on Shaq and one on Kobe too before the past 3 seasons ....
But Kobe was once a great defender, much like duncan but neither are that good anymore.
Kobe was once a great defender when he gave a . It's like he needed to get called out, then he'll give 100% there.
Guys like Duncan had help ( o Bowen), but they really anchored inside night in and night out. That aspect of his decline has been the most painful as a Spurs fan.
Duncan Did it in 2005 ... with Horry and Oberto ...
Olajawon did it with Thorpe and the same Horry you just slighted ....
He had Horace Grant in Orlando ...
Dont mean to make it a bash session I respect Shaq, just like you should Kobe. But because Shaq is funny and not a ass like Kobe, appears to me yall seem to give him a pass on his faults because he dunked on both your HOF big men at once and can crack jokes. I saw Kareem in 1980-1982, Olajawon's double clutch, and Moses fo fo fo Shaq had only his MVP season where he truly put up a season like Duncan in 2003 and 2005 or the seasons I just mentioned. Sure he scored more but in 2000 I thought shaq wa son his way to possible GOAT status ...shame he got fat and lazy.
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